Too Consumed With Theology - quiz

[BobinKy]

Charles Spurgeon, Feathers for Arrows:

"Well, friend, they were about as sensible as those doctrinalists who for ever talk over the technicalities of religion, but know nothing by experience of its spirit and power. Are we not all too apt to amuse ourselves after the same fashion? He who knows mere Linnaean names, but has never seen a flower, is as reliable in botany, as he is in theology who can descant upon supralapsarianism, but has never known the love of Christ in his heart.

'True religion's more than doctrine,
Something must be known and felt.'"

That is exactly as I see it. Theology (or doctrine or teaching) is only part of what the Christian faith encompasses. And if we only focus on what we read, think, or articulate, then we are not touching all the corners of what our faith can be.

Please allow me to use the analogy of a library. I see theology (again, doctrine or teaching) as the card catalog of our faith. It describes, organizes, and suggests related areas of study. I see our faith as what resides on the shelves, in the databases, on the walls, and the whole array of library experiences.

As Skandelon suggested in one of his posts, God speaks to us in a variety of ways and we come to know God through a variety of experiences. One of these experiences is theology (doctrine, teaching). But we also come to know God through prayer with God (both speaking and listening), through praising God and giving him glory, through holy living trying to live godly lives, through fellowship with others who are getting to know God, through spiritual experiences that we may not have the words to articulate but know just the same, and other ways that God chooses to use to draw us to him. God is the great "I AM" and he is not limited to whatever box (or card catalog) we try to enclose around him so we can study him and classify him.

God is God. Praise God.


...Bob

 

[preacher4truth]

I disagree. We need to be completely consumed with the study of God and His Word. "Balance" is for yoga and Buddhism, not Christianity.



Maybe for a lost person, who is not really saved. For the Christian, God's Word is what causes us to live the way we should, and do as we should. Complacency comes from an absence of God's Word, not an overabundance of it!

The more you study, the more "practicum" you will do. The less you study, the less "practicum" you will do.

I agree with all you say. Bobinky would have not liked Paul and his devotion to truth.

Here is what is going on:

Persons want to throw out this theology "stuff," this pure Bible teaching "stuff", and replace it with tolerance (accepting false teaching) and "love" (not biblical/responsible love) but with "let's all have peace" (appeasment really) "and acceptance and love" (anti-biblical/anti-holy) and "let's rid the world of all those who truly know God and are intimate with His truth who stand against our cause, and who cause division over what they see as Gods truth."

They're tired of it really. They want to put an end to truth. They want to throw out theology.

The real intent is seen when the author of the OP goes on the attack against those who espouse protecting truth and pure theology (havensdad, glfrederick, others)

That's my take.

- Blessings

 

[BobinKy]

Bobinky would have not liked Paul and his devotion to truth.

As for me and what I believe, there is no truth in your statement. This is very disrespectful of you to assume you know my beliefs on Paul or any other writer in the Bible. You only know what I write in this forum. And that is a small part of my Christian faith.

Apology expected.

Here is what is going on:

Persons want to throw out this theology "stuff," this pure Bible teaching "stuff", and replace it with tolerance (accepting false teaching) and "love" (not biblical/responsible love) but with "let's all have peace" (appeasment really) "and acceptance and love" (anti-biblical/anti-holy) and "let's rid the world of all those who truly know God and are intimate with His truth who stand against our cause, and who cause division over what they see as Gods truth."

They're tired of it really. They want to put an end to truth. They want to throw out theology.

Where are your quotations coming from? Read through this thread again. I do not think you will find any of these words you have put in quotations in this thread posted by anyone.

The real intent is seen when the author of the OP goes on the attack against those who espouse protecting truth and pure theology (havensdad, glfrederick, others)

Again, go back and read the thread again. I pulled out some disrespectful quotes from some of the posters and confronted them with their own words, and followed with questions or images. Like I am doing now with you.

No one anywhere in this thread said to throw out theology. I call you out--preacher4truth--go back through this thread and post a quote that someone made to throw out theology. Do it--preacher4truth--do it! Go find a quote where someone in this thread said to throw out theology. You--preacher4truth--are the only person to use those words. And "untruthful" words they were.

...Bob

 

[Havensdad]

Charles Spurgeon, Feathers for Arrows:

"Well, friend, they were about as sensible as those doctrinalists who for ever talk over the technicalities of religion, but know nothing by experience of its spirit and power. Are we not all too apt to amuse ourselves after the same fashion? He who knows mere Linnaean names, but has never seen a flower, is as reliable in botany, as he is in theology who can descant upon supralapsarianism, but has never known the love of Christ in his heart.

'True religion's more than doctrine,
Something must be known and felt.'"

He is not saying what you are trying to make him say. Actually Spurgeon is AGREEING with me!

He says that heavy study of theology is only useless if one, "has never known the love of Christ in his heart."

I agree. If one is not saved. For the saved man, there is NEVER too much study of God's Word!

Remember that Spurgeon's heros were John Calvin, and Martin Luther! He would NEVER speak ill of heavy, intense, and constant theological study. Remember that Spurgeon himself spent many hours, every single day, studying theology.

 

[preacher4truth]

As for me and what I believe, there is no truth in your statement. This is very disrespectful of you to assume you know my beliefs on Paul or any other writer in the Bible. You only know what I write in this forum. And that is a small part of my Christian faith.

Apology expected.



Where are your quotations coming from? Read through this thread again. I do not think you will find any of these words you have put in quotations in this thread posted by anyone.



Again, go back and read the thread again. I pulled out some disrespectful quotes from some of the posters and confronted them with their own words, and followed with questions or images. Like I am doing now with you.

No one anywhere in this thread said to throw out theology. I call you out--preacher4truth--go back through this thread and post a quote that someone made to throw out theology. Do it--preacher4truth--do it! Go find a quote where someone in this thread said to throw out theology. You--preacher4truth--are the only person to use those words. And "untruthful" words they were.

...Bob

You've gotten quite ugly with those who espouse, adopt, stand with, and defend truth, theology, biblical truth. In this thread. This is how I've concluded this.

Now, this is not limited to you only here in this thread Bob, but also in your more liberal leanings of tolerance in other threads. You're the one who puts out your more tolerant views of others who are questionable in belief systems. We've been through this before.

My quotations are "acting out" what is happening in Christendom, and those against holy truth. These are not "quotes." Thus the "throwing out theology" is expressed in a dramatic context, showing forth how the world, and some within the church are against such.

I also dare say that this is suggested in the OP. I think others can see the same things perhaps implied. Thus their replies which you've attacked. If the drama fits?

I owe you no apology, so you'll just have to keep expecting. But you may owe some on here apologies for your maltreatment of their opinions?

You certainly attacked them. They have freedom to express opinion. I stand with them and their beliefs, even if it is against you and yours. Such is life.

They gave their opinions, you railed on them. I gave you mine, you railed on me.

That's all that happened.

 

[BobinKy]

You've gotten quite ugly with those who espouse, adopt, stand with, and defend truth, theology, biblical truth.

Let me see if I have this right. When you speak what you say is truth, you are defending truth. When I speak what I say is truth, I am being ugly.

Now, this is not limited to you only here in this thread Bob, but also in your more liberal leanings of tolerance in other threads. You're the one who puts out your more tolerant views of others who are questionable in belief systems. We've been through this before.

And each time we go through it, you speak the same old rhetoric. You call me a liberal because I post tolerance and love of others. Should I rebut by calling you a . . . ? No, I will not do that. Because my tolerance and love also extends to you.

My quotations are "acting out" what is happening in Christendom, and those against holy truth. These are not "quotes." Thus the "throwing out theology" is expressed in a dramatic context, showing forth how the world, and some within the church are against such.

Are you now saying that no one made a statement in this thread to "throw out theology"? That was the point of calling you out in my last post. Thank you for that admission.

. . .

There is no point in dragging others into this exchange between you and me. They said what they said, I drew attention to their words, and they made their responses. No one attacked any one. The record is in the thread.

I am afraid you (and possibly others) may have missed the point of the quiz, which was quoted from the Arminian Today blog. If you clicked on the link at the end of the quiz in the original post, you can read where the author admitted that he was too consumed with theology at times. The author went on to say the Christian faith is more than theology (doctrine, teaching).

I hope the readers of this thread will consider the point of the quiz and think about theology in their own faith.

Some Christian traditions value theology greatly; while other Christian traditions live out their faith through other practices, keeping formal theology to a minimum. You call me liberal because I see the Christian faith in other Christian traditions. I hope and pray--yes, I will pray for you tonight. I hope and pray that someday you too will come to recognize and acknowledge the Christian faith of others.

...Bob

 

[Jerome]

"The early Church did not preach much doctrine; they preached Christ. They had little to say of truths about Christ; it was Christ himself, his hands, his feet, his side, his eyes, his head, his crown of thorns, the sponge, the vinegar, the nails. O for the Christ of Mary Magdalene, rather than the Christ of the critical theologian; give me the wounded body of divinity, rather than the soundest system of theology." —Charles Spurgeon, "Love to Jesus"

 

[JesusFan]

He is not saying what you are trying to make him say. Actually Spurgeon is AGREEING with me!

He says that heavy study of theology is only useless if one, "has never known the love of Christ in his heart."

I agree. If one is not saved. For the saved man, there is NEVER too much study of God's Word!

Remember that Spurgeon's heros were John Calvin, and Martin Luther! He would NEVER speak ill of heavy, intense, and constant theological study. Remember that Spurgeon himself spent many hours, every single day, studying theology.

Just saying that great learning/knowledge of EVEN the Bible does NOT automatically mean that it will get it applied to ones life...

balance is still part of the process, we can learn all things, but unless we allow the Holy Spirit to work it into our lives and become part of us, what real ggod with all that learning in apractical sense really be doing us?

 

[JesusFan]

You've gotten quite ugly with those who espouse, adopt, stand with, and defend truth, theology, biblical truth. In this thread. This is how I've concluded this.

Now, this is not limited to you only here in this thread Bob, but also in your more liberal leanings of tolerance in other threads. You're the one who puts out your more tolerant views of others who are questionable in belief systems. We've been through this before.

My quotations are "acting out" what is happening in Christendom, and those against holy truth. These are not "quotes." Thus the "throwing out theology" is expressed in a dramatic context, showing forth how the world, and some within the church are against such.

I also dare say that this is suggested in the OP. I think others can see the same things perhaps implied. Thus their replies which you've attacked. If the drama fits?

I owe you no apology, so you'll just have to keep expecting. But you may owe some on here apologies for your maltreatment of their opinions?

You certainly attacked them. They have freedom to express opinion. I stand with them and their beliefs, even if it is against you and yours. Such is life.

They gave their opinions, you railed on them. I gave you mine, you railed on me.

That's all that happened.

I must have been reading this all wrong!
My take was that there was a concern, which I do hold to, that we can be great learners of Bible, into theology, know great truths etc BUT

that does not mean will be making a practicl difference in our lives UNLESS we allow those truth be applied into our lives by the Holy Spirit, that is why I said the Devil knows more about God and theology then ANY of us, but where did all that get him!

 

[BobinKy]

"The early Church did not preach much doctrine; they preached Christ. They had little to say of truths about Christ; it was Christ himself, his hands, his feet, his side, his eyes, his head, his crown of thorns, the sponge, the vinegar, the nails. O for the Christ of Mary Magdalene, rather than the Christ of the critical theologian; give me the wounded body of divinity, rather than the soundest system of theology." —Charles Spurgeon, "Love to Jesus"

 

[glfredrick]

Charles Spurgeon, Feathers for Arrows:

"Well, friend, they were about as sensible as those doctrinalists who for ever talk over the technicalities of religion, but know nothing by experience of its spirit and power. Are we not all too apt to amuse ourselves after the same fashion? He who knows mere Linnaean names, but has never seen a flower, is as reliable in botany, as he is in theology who can descant upon supralapsarianism, but has never known the love of Christ in his heart.

'True religion's more than doctrine,
Something must be known and felt.'"

We should note that Spurgeon went on to found a pastor's school, where he taught theology! He was also fully immersed in the Downgrade Controversy. Trying to pin Spurgeon as the "anti-theologian" is akin to pinning Billy Graham as the "anti-evangelist." Just doesn't wash.

Here is another quote by Spurgeon, where he takes to task those with the OP proposition, that we invest too much time in theology (and make sure that "natural theology" is understood -- it is not "biblical theology!):

[At the end of the Puritan age] by some means or other, first the ministers, then the Churches, got on "the down grade," and in some cases, the descent was rapid, and in all, very disastrous. In proportion as the ministers seceded from the old Puritan godliness of life, and the old Calvinistic form of doctrine, they commonly became less earnest and less simple in their preaching, more speculative and less spiritual in the matter of their discourses, and dwelt more on the moral teachings of the New Testament, than on the great central truths of revelation. Natural theology frequently took the place which the great truths of the gospel ought to have held, and the sermons became more and more Christless. Corresponding results in the character and life, first of the preachers and then of the people, were only too plainly apparent.

Yes, Spurgeon often took to task men who's SOLE focus was to nit-pick theological and philosophical issues until there was no nit left to pick such as how many angels could dance on the point of a needle. But to suggest that he was in toto anti-theological is just plain wrong. He was not.

 

[BobinKy]

Just saying that great learning/knowledge of EVEN the Bible does NOT automatically mean that it will get it applied to ones life...

balance is still part of the process, we can learn all things, but unless we allow the Holy Spirit to work it into our lives and become part of us, what real ggod with all that learning in apractical sense really be doing us?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


...Bob

 

[BobinKy]

Spurgeon . . . to suggest that he was in toto anti-theological is just plain wrong. He was not.

Here lies the issue of this thread. I do not think anyone in this thread is suggesting an anti-theological position. However, some of the posters are digging in their heels as if that is what is being said.

This thread, which started with a quiz that I borrowed from another website (see my original post) is simply asking: At times, are we too concerned with theology--in effect, should theology be balanced with other Christian practices and experiences?

Now to someone who teaches theology in seminary, or is a recent graduate of advanced seminary instruction, or reads theology books and little else--this may sound like the end is near. Maybe that is why some have become so defensive and made disrespectful remarks. Remarks that I have quoted and drawn attention to (in my unique personal style).

For sure, those in the reformed tradition have strong expectations to be theological (or doctrinal). And some in the SBC have taken on this theological tradition and promote it in colleges and seminaries.

However, the path of heavy theology is not the path of all Baptists.

. . .

This thread is asking the Baptist reader to think about the role of theology in their personal faith practices.

That is all.

If you have prayerfully examined your personal faith and believe the level of theology (doctrine, teaching) is about right for you--then that is all that is being asked.

To examine your personal faith. To not accept what has been handed to you in a class or degree program, or purchased by you in the form of expensive theology books. But to examine your personal faith and the role theology has played, is playing, and should be playing in your faith. The same can be said of prayer, praise, Christian softball, Bible collecting, and so much more.​

. . .

I wish to close this current post of mine with a line from a play by William Shakespeare.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.​

--Hamlet, Act II, scene ii, line 230​

...Bob :wavey:​

 

[glfredrick]

Here lies the issue of this thread. I do not think anyone in this thread is suggesting an anti-theological position. However, some of the posters are digging in their heels as if that is what is being said.

This thread, which started with a quiz that I borrowed from another website (see my original post) is simply asking: At times, are we too concerned with theology--in effect, should theology be balanced with other Christian practices and experiences?

Now to someone who teaches theology in seminary, or is a recent graduate of advanced seminary instruction, or reads theology books and little else--this may sound like the end is near. Maybe that is why some have become so defensive and made disrespectful remarks. Remarks that I have quoted and drawn attention to (in my unique personal style).

For sure, those in the reformed tradition have strong expectations to be theological (or doctrinal). And some in the SBC have taken on this theological tradition and promote it in some colleges and seminaries.

However, the path of heavy theology is not the path of all Baptists.

. . .

This thread is asking the Baptist reader to think about the role of theology in their personal faith practices. That is all.

If you have prayerfully examined your personal faith and believe the level of theology (doctrine, teaching) is about right for you--then that is all that is being asked.

To examine your personal faith. To not accept what has been handed to you in a class or degree program, or purchased by you in the form of expensive theology books. But to examine your personal faith and the role theology has played, is playing, and should be playing in your faith. The same can be said of prayer, praise, Christian softball, Bible collecting, and so much more.

. . .

I wish to close this current post of mine with a line from a play by William Shakespeare.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.​

--Hamlet, Act II, scene ii, line 230​

...Bob :wavey:​

The insinuation of your thread is anti-theology. It remains so even after your explanation.

One question, have you ever processed a major theology text of any sort? Just wondering if you come by your skepticism naturally or because of some reason you discovered in your study of theology?

I ask, because you are making attempt to approach the Christian life from an existential position. While we certainly DO experience the Christian life, we are not to base our beliefs and understanding on those experiences, but rather on a careful examination of the doctrines via a more careful exposition of the Word of God -- all of it. The concepts of piety and existential understanding that you espouse have been tried before and found wanting, eventually leading to universalism and even atheism. THAT is why theology must remain ALWAYS at the forefront of what we do as we seek to live the dictates of a righteous life.

I also find it ironic that a man who is so heavily advocating the sole use of Scripture quoting Shakespeare. Not that there is anything at all wrong with old Shakey -- he was a brilliant author who often promulgated Christian doctrine in his works -- but you are turning to another source, just as your concern in the OP, to explain what can be better explained via Scripture and properly understood theology.

 

[JesusFan]

The insinuation of your thread is anti-theology. It remains so even after your explanation.

One question, have you ever processed a major theology text of any sort? Just wondering if you come by your skepticism naturally or because of some reason you discovered in your study of theology?

I ask, because you are making attempt to approach the Christian life from an existential position. While we certainly DO experience the Christian life, we are not to base our beliefs and understanding on those experiences, but rather on a careful examination of the doctrines via a more careful exposition of the Word of God -- all of it. The concepts of piety and existential understanding that you espouse have been tried before and found wanting, eventually leading to universalism and even atheism. THAT is why theology must remain ALWAYS at the forefront of what we do as we seek to live the dictates of a righteous life.

I also find it ironic that a man who is so heavily advocating the sole use of Scripture quoting Shakespeare. Not that there is anything at all wrong with old Shakey -- he was a brilliant author who often promulgated Christian doctrine in his works -- but you are turning to another source, just as your concern in the OP, to explain what can be better explained via Scripture and properly understood theology.

I am someone who HAS read those such as Calvin, Luther, Hodge. Berhof, Erickson, Augustine etc...

DO think that his question is good IF we restrict it to ONLY the question of

"Can there really be good theology apart from it getting applied in you rlife?"

can learn all about how the bible refers to the Holy Spirit, his gifts, empowering etc but UNLESS I daily choose to submit and yield to His empowering, what real good is my learning doing?

I can learn all about methods and ways God saves others, If I chosse not to witness, what good is that?

Thnk we have to see that the REAL aim of all theology, regardless of the genre, biblical, systematic, etc SHOULD be to allow us to grow up into the full measure of Christ, to become more and more daily confirmed into Image of Christ.

And more learning/study does NOT mean that will automatically be happening...

 

[BobinKy]

The insinuation of your thread is anti-theology. It remains so even after your explanation.

One question, have you ever processed a major theology text of any sort? Just wondering if you come by your skepticism naturally or because of some reason you discovered in your study of theology?

I ask, because you are making attempt to approach the Christian life from an existential position. While we certainly DO experience the Christian life, we are not to base our beliefs and understanding on those experiences, but rather on a careful examination of the doctrines via a more careful exposition of the Word of God -- all of it. The concepts of piety and existential understanding that you espouse have been tried before and found wanting, eventually leading to universalism and even atheism. THAT is why theology must remain ALWAYS at the forefront of what we do as we seek to live the dictates of a righteous life.

I also find it ironic that a man who is so heavily advocating the sole use of Scripture quoting Shakespeare. Not that there is anything at all wrong with old Shakey -- he was a brilliant author who often promulgated Christian doctrine in his works -- but you are turning to another source, just as your concern in the OP, to explain what can be better explained via Scripture and properly understood theology.

More to come . . . after supper.


...Bob

 

[Havensdad]

Here lies the issue of this thread. I do not think anyone in this thread is suggesting an anti-theological position. However, some of the posters are digging in their heels as if that is what is being said.

If you are advocating doing anything apart from theology, you not only are anti-theology, you have no idea what you are talking about. A true Christian, functioning as they should cannot do anything BUT theology.

This thread, which started with a quiz that I borrowed from another website (see my original post) is simply asking: At times, are we too concerned with theology--in effect, should theology be balanced with other Christian practices and experiences?

No. Theology is everything. Theology is the study of God. When I go out and do service projects, for instance, it MUST have a theological basis...otherwise, it is sinful. "I am doing this, for God's glory."

Now to someone who teaches theology in seminary, or is a recent graduate of advanced seminary instruction, or reads theology books and little else--this may sound like the end is near. Maybe that is why some have become so defensive and made disrespectful remarks. Remarks that I have quoted and drawn attention to (in my unique personal style).

Not at all. To someone who knows what they are talking about, your remarks are just nonsensical.

For sure, those in the reformed tradition have strong expectations to be theological (or doctrinal). And some in the SBC have taken on this theological tradition and promote it in colleges and seminaries.

Uh, no. The SBC has ALWAYS been extremely theological (other than the few years when the idiotic liberals tried to take over). And well they should; Christianity without heavy theology, is like a car without an engine.

You can get out and push if you want, Mr. inky. I prefer to put the gas in the tank and let the Holy Spirit do it.

However, the path of heavy theology is not the path of all Baptists.

. . .

Traditionally, yes it was. A few lately have done otherwise...the emergent church heretics.

This thread is asking the Baptist reader to think about the role of theology in their personal faith practices.

Theology should consume us. The study of God, His ways, and His reality, conforms us, through the Holy Spirit, to His image. An absence of heavy theological study will result in either #1 A works based, heretical Christianity, or #2 A forsaking of the faith (because the person never really had any, as evidenced by the fact that they did not wish to know about the one who saved them!)

If you have prayerfully examined your personal faith and believe the level of theology (doctrine, teaching) is about right for you--then that is all that is being asked.

Not so. "The heart is desperately wicked, who can know it?" Why on EARTH would you trust a heart that is desperately wicked? how foolish...

Much better to trust the Word of God, and be like the Bereans, who did not just read the scriptures, but "searched" (studied, investigated) the scriptures.

To examine your personal faith. To not accept what has been handed to you in a class or degree program, or purchased by you in the form of expensive theology books. But to examine your personal faith and the role theology has played, is playing, and should be playing in your faith. The same can be said of prayer, praise, Christian softball, Bible collecting, and so much more.​

No way. Trust God, not feelings. Feelings will always lead you astray.
. . .

 

[Skandelon]

As someone who came to baptist circles out of Assemblies of God...

DO know that there is A LOT of false theology practiced in thos ekinds of circles, that Bible MUST be made first and foremost...

I think those God used to write the scriptures would vehemently disagree, as do I. They recorded these testimonies so that men may believe and know HIM, for HE and HE alone must be the first and foremost.

 

[thomas15]

[More to come . . . after supper.

...Bob

BobinKy, glfredrick is in my opinion expressing what I think and others may think as well. You ask a good question, offer some really nice comments, true, but for me it is not easy to avoid coming to the same conclusion as glfredrick. Your outburst in post #76 does not help your cause. Most of us here are beyond a high school mentality.

 

[Skandelon]

No way. Trust God, not feelings. Feelings will always lead you astray.
. . .

As if God does not use emotion and feelings to exhort, teach, encourage, and prompt his children. Trusting God is not mutually exclusive of a individual's feelings.

I think the point of the thread (at least the one I've taken from it) is the same one Jesus was making when he said, "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life" (John 5:39-40).