can we get Saved By Gospel itself, W/O grace of God Enabling us To respond?

[Skandelon]

Its just there there is nothing internally within our natural natures that allow us to put forth the faith needed to receive jesus APART from God Himself 'turning" on our means to/enabling us by a work of the Holy Spirit..

I don't know how many times I can say this: The gospel IS a gracious work of the Holy Spirit and its the ONLY means spoken of in scripture as being "the power of God unto Salvation." I'm not sure why anyone would insist another work of the HS is needed unless they presume that the first work is somehow insufficient.

Again, both Cals/Arms affirm God has to doa n external work/act of grace on our behalf to prepare us to receive and be able to respond...

I asked you before and never got an answer. What do you mean by an "external work/act of grace?" Isn't the effectual/irresistible call of the Calvinistic system an "internal" working?

 

[JesusFan]

I don't know how many times I can say this: The gospel IS a gracious work of the Holy Spirit and its the ONLY means spoken of in scripture as being "the power of God unto Salvation." I'm not sure why anyone would insist another work of the HS is needed unless they presume that the first work is somehow insufficient.



I asked you before and never got an answer. What do you mean by an "external work/act of grace?" Isn't the effectual/irresistible call of the Calvinistic system an "internal" working?

the Gospel message can and does produce faith in those able to actually receive it and believe in Him it speaks of...

gospel not weak or faulty, but we the receivers are, and MUST have God do His enabling work to allow us to actual be in a condition/stae able to hear and believe it!

Don't get "hung up" on grace/external/internal etc


truth is that somehow the Holy Spirit works on us/in us to be able to have us excercise faith in jesus Chrsit when we hear the Gospel message!

Did God enable/allow that person to believe on Jesus that he heard about? Did the sinner place faith in the jesus that he heard about himself?

YES

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I don't know how many times I can say this: The gospel IS a gracious work of the Holy Spirit and its the ONLY means spoken of in scripture as being "the power of God unto Salvation." I'm not sure why anyone would insist another work of the HS is needed unless they presume that the first work is somehow insufficient.

Hello Skandelon,
You quite reasonably refer to Rom 1:16, but you also need to consider 1Thes 1:5. 'For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance.' The Gospel is indeed the power of God unto salvation, but it can be, and often is, faithfully preached without the power of the Holy Sprit being present to bring sinners to repentance and faith. It is when the Spirit accompanies the word, bringing conviction and assurance to individuals that souls are saved.

Steve

 

[Skandelon]

Hello Skandelon,
You quite reasonably refer to Rom 1:16, but you also need to consider 1Thes 1:5. 'For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance.' The Gospel is indeed the power of God unto salvation, but it can be, and often is, faithfully preached without the power of the Holy Sprit being present to bring sinners to repentance and faith. It is when the Spirit accompanies the word, bringing conviction and assurance to individuals that souls are saved.

Steve

I love that verse and quote it often in defense of the very same point I was making in quoting Romans 1:16. It says 'OUR gospel did not come to you in word only," which to me means that "our gospel" is more than mere words. There are many who claim to carry the gospel (good news), but "our gospel" (the true gospel) doesn't come with words alone. Our gospel is produced, carried and preserved by the HS and will not return void but will ALWAYS accomplish the purpose for which it is sent.

The Gentile brethren in the church Paul founded there in Thess. were being told by everyone that Israel was the chosen nation and that God would NEVER choose dirty dog Gentiles. Paul is countering that message by affirming the mystery of the gospel which is that God has foreknown them and purposed to ingraft the Gentiles all along. He has chosen THEM, not just Israel. How do they know? Because the gospel came to them in power and many believed and were saved! Proof is in the pudding. Their lives were being changed proving that God had indeed chosen to ingraft the Gentile people.

 

[Winman]

I don't know how many times I can say this: The gospel IS a gracious work of the Holy Spirit and its the ONLY means spoken of in scripture as being "the power of God unto Salvation." I'm not sure why anyone would insist another work of the HS is needed unless they presume that the first work is somehow insufficient.



I asked you before and never got an answer. What do you mean by an "external work/act of grace?" Isn't the effectual/irresistible call of the Calvinistic system an "internal" working?

You are getting played like an old 45 RPM record.

You cannot reason with the unreasonable.