Does God Control and/or Know All things? A continuation...

[preacher4truth]

Does God use sin to accomplish His purposes? Certainly He does.

Does God control/give/direct thoughts, turn thoughts and hearts to accomplish His purposes?

In allowing Satan to inflict and misdirect, and put thoughts into hearts, who then is still in control of this?

That God allows man to think thoughts, without intervening, who then is really in control?

When God Himself turns hearts to accomplish His purposes, who is in control there?

Note, I've never implied God gives man, nor does He put into man each and every thought as another has falsely claimed me to say. To say such is to react knee jerk without looking at facts, as too many fellow Baptists do, to their shame.

When God is directing our thoughts, to accomplish His will, who is in charge?

Either God is all control of all things, and nothing is done which He didn't foreknow, and that nothing that happens occurs to God later is factual, or He is in fact not God.

One on here (so far) says God does not know all things. This is a fallacy. Or, does God just simply not know all things, as Copeland theology, word-faith proponents teach, or is such teaching in error, and God does in fact know all things, and such teaching is then erroneous?

I have described that God controls all thoughts and outcomes according to His purposes and determinitive counsel, and by permissive counsel, still showing He to be in control of all situations, since permission implies ability to intervene.

Two more things: Christ is God, and Christ and the Godhead are perfectly sinless. Any aligning of God as the author of sin, due to His permitting of sin to accomplish His purposes, is solely upon the one who falsely claims I have said so, which I in fact vehemenently deny.

Incapability of seeing God in Control and equating it with evil is fallacy and shallow theological error.

God can and does Sovereignly control all things, and is free from sin and corruption in it because His nature is Pure, Just and Holy and Incorruptible. Thus he and He alone can control all things and remain pure. To equate control with evil is to not understand that God is pure and holy, and is a reflection on those who do espouse this as being erroneous in their understanding of the nature of God, and that He is incorrutpible.

All of the above describe that God is purely Sovereign. I expect that several will beg to differ and seek to strip God of His rightful place.

Let's move forward here. Let's not add to words, or name call, and be as men and women, and as you claim, Christian.

 

[DHK]

I. God has endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined good, or evil.

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

The Westminster Confession of Faith. Chapter Ten

 

[quantumfaith]

Does God use sin to accomplish His purposes? Certainly He does.

Does God control/give/direct thoughts, turn thoughts and hearts to accomplish His purposes?

In allowing Satan to inflict and misdirect, and put thoughts into hearts, who then is still in control of this?

That God allows man to think thoughts, without intervening, who then is really in control?

When God Himself turns hearts to accomplish His purposes, who is in control there?

Note, I've never implied God gives man, nor does He put into man each and every thought as another has falsely claimed me to say. To say such is to react knee jerk without looking at facts, as too many fellow Baptists do, to their shame.

When God is directing our thoughts, to accomplish His will, who is in charge?

Either God is all control of all things, and nothing is done which He didn't foreknow, and that nothing that happens occurs to God later is factual, or He is in fact not God.

One on here (so far) says God does not know all things. This is a fallacy. Or, does God just simply not know all things, as Copeland theology, word-faith proponents teach, or is such teaching in error, and God does in fact know all things, and such teaching is then erroneous?

I have described that God controls all thoughts and outcomes according to His purposes and determinitive counsel, and by permissive counsel, still showing He to be in control of all situations, since permission implies ability to intervene.

Two more things: Christ is God, and Christ and the Godhead are perfectly sinless. Any aligning of God as the author of sin, due to His permitting of sin to accomplish His purposes, is solely upon the one who falsely claims I have said so, which I in fact vehemenently deny.

Incapability of seeing God in Control and equating it with evil is fallacy and shallow theological error.

God can and does Sovereignly control all things, and is free from sin and corruption in it because His nature is Pure, Just and Holy and Incorruptible. Thus he and He alone can control all things and remain pure. To equate control with evil is to not understand that God is pure and holy, and is a reflection on those who do espouse this as being erroneous in their understanding of the nature of God, and that He is incorrutpible.

All of the above describe that God is purely Sovereign. I expect that several will beg to differ and seek to strip God of His rightful place.

Let's move forward here. Let's not add to words, or name call, and be as men and women, and as you claim, Christian.

PFT,

Did God intentionally engineer the fall of Satan, or simply by His omniscience know what Satan would do? Did God cause (first cause) the fall of Satan?

 

[Winman]

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Who is God fighting here, himself? Is God controlling Satan to cause him to fight against himself?

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Jesus asked how that if Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? But the implication is that he is speaking of God's kingdom. If God is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand?

So, it makes no sense that God would direct war against himself, as Jesus pointed out. God's war is against Satan. How can you say you are in control of someone you are at war with? War by definition means hostility, conflict, and competition. If God is in control of every event, how could there be war?

 

[preacher4truth]

PFT,

Did God intentionally engineer the fall of Satan, or simply by His omniscience know what Satan would do? Did God cause (first cause) the fall of Satan?

Would you have trouble with God if He engineered it, and thereby, is in total control of all things? Yes or no?

Did God know all these things, and allow them to happen, or is He otherwise, and "surprised," and henceforth trying to rectify all these things, a la scrambling?

Did not Satan cause his own fall? I believe that he was responsible, yes?

 

[preacher4truth]

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Who is God fighting here, himself? Is God controlling Satan to cause him to fight against himself?

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Jesus asked how that if Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? But the implication is that he is speaking of God's kingdom. If God is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand?

So, it makes no sense that God would direct war against himself, as Jesus pointed out. God's war is against Satan. How can you say you are in control of someone you are at war with? War by definition means hostility, conflict, and competition. If God is in control of every event, how could there be war?

Perhaps you lack understanding, and the understanding that you do have, is amiss, and filled with proof-text theology, lacking insight into the entire counsel of God's Word?

 

[preacher4truth]

I will say, that no matter what the Pure God of Holy Scripture has done, I will yet trust in Him. Even when my finite man can't grasp it.

 

[quantumfaith]

Would you have trouble with God if He engineered it, and thereby, is in total control of all things? Yes or no?

Did God know all these things, and allow them to happen, or is He otherwise, and "surprised," and henceforth trying to rectify all these things, a la scrambling?

Did not Satan cause his own fall? I believe that he was responsible, yes?

Now why do you have to "go off" and insinuate that I ever have a problem with God. My "problems" with God are my making. Other than that, my other problem is when YOU tell me I have a problem with God.

 

[DHK]

Would you have trouble with God if He engineered it, and thereby, is in total control of all things? Yes or no?

Did God know all these things, and allow them to happen, or is He otherwise, and "surprised," and henceforth trying to rectify all these things, a la scrambling?

Did not Satan cause his own fall? I believe that he was responsible, yes?

Proper debate or dialog cannot take place when a question is answered with a question. Please take note.

 

[preacher4truth]

Now why do you have to "go off" and insinuate that I ever have a problem with God. My "problems" with God are my making. Other than that, my other problem is when YOU tell me I have a problem with God.

It looks touchy to you already? No insinuation, as I took none from you. Answer the questions.

I never said you had a problem with Him, I asked if you would. Simmer down fella.

 

[preacher4truth]

Proper debate or dialog cannot take place when a question is answered with a question. Please take note.

With this reasoning you deny Christs technique in doing the same. Take note of that.

His questioning revealed them openly by answering their questions with an answer, and exposed them. I employ this methodololgy myself.

 

[preacher4truth]

I also take note that none of you will vote and put your truth/belief out there in the open.

None meaning winman, qaf, and dhk

 

[DHK]

With this reasoning you deny Christs technique in doing the same. Take note of that.

You are not Christ. If you need to refresh yourself of the rules please do so.
Post in grace.

 

[quantumfaith]

It looks touchy to you already? No insinuation, as I took none from you. Answer the questions.

I never said you had a problem with Him, I asked if you would. Simmer down fella.

I simply asked an honest question, without malice, and no intent of entrapment in any way.

 

[Winman]

Perhaps you lack understanding, and the understanding that you do have, is amiss, and filled with proof-text theology, lacking insight into the entire counsel of God's Word?

Hey, answer the question, does God direct war against himself?

 

[quantumfaith]

I also take note that none of you will vote and put your truth/belief out there in the open.

None meaning winman, qaf, and dhk

How many things can I check?

 

[preacher4truth]

I simply asked an honest question, without malice, and no intent of entrapment in any way.

Grant me the same grace as you grant yourself, as a true Christian then. Your malice has been intentional many times in the past toward me in your dogging my steps. There is no need for this in our relationship, as I would like it to be brotherly. If you harbor resentment, vengeance, ill feelings, the like toward me, then repent and ask forgiveness, and be right with God.

Now, sir, answer my questions.

 

[quantumfaith]

I also take note that none of you will vote and put your truth/belief out there in the open.

None meaning winman, qaf, and dhk

I "put myself out there" everytime I comment, approve etc of any statement. If I do not fit into any category that you need me to, well sorry.

 

[preacher4truth]

Hey, answer the question, does God direct war against himself?

Answer it yourself, does God have control over all things?

Also, answer the polls, there are some ther for you, so be a man, and answer.

 

[DHK]

Answer it yourself, does God have control over all things?

Also, answer the polls, there are some ther for you, so be a man, and answer.

If this thread continues in this manner it will close very quickly.