Must the person have been baptised by a Baptist Church, or would you do it case by case, to see if able to "take" the baptism provided by non baptist Church?
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3000 Baptized in less than one day, really?
- Thread starter humblethinker
- Start date
Must the person have been baptised by a Baptist Church, or would you do it case by case, to see if able to "take" the baptism provided by non baptist Church?
Of couse it's good enough. I agree. But my op is regarding the idea that those saved were or were not considered a part of or a member of the church. I'm wanting to address the idea that church membership (as Paul discussed "members of the body") is only possible after the event of and is conditional to water baptism.
I guess you could say I'm addressing this to those who hold to the ideas that the local church is the only 'church' there is and that baptism is a requirement for church membership.
I propose, that regardless of how it happened, all the people were considered members "that day" even though all may not have been baptized that day.
Where do you see Paul saying church membership is conditional on Water Baptism?
Paul gave a rebuke in the way it was practiced in
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Look at verse 17 Paul says Christ didn't send him to baptize but to preach the Gospel. To him the important things was to preach the Gospel.
1 Corinthians 12 PAul made it clear how we become members of the true church, 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
We are part of the Chruch by means of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Again in Ephesians 4 he reaffirms that fact:
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
First we are to have love for one another and endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit, here is the key.
4 There is one body (the Body of Christ, The Church), and one Spirit (the Holy Spirit), even as ye are called in one hope of your calling (of Salvation to Jesus and in Him we find our hope);
5 One Lord (The Lord Jesus), one faith (Faith in Him), one baptism (of the Holy Spirit),
6 One God and Father of all (self explainatory), who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Unto all of us is given Grace by the gift of Christ who paid for our sins and became our atonement. So Paul emphasis the Baptism of the Holy Spirit not water baptism as placing us in the One Body.
Where do you see Paul saying church membership is conditional on Water Baptism?
Paul gave a rebuke in the way it was practiced in
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Look at verse 17 Paul says Christ didn't send him to baptize but to preach the Gospel. To him the important things was to preach the Gospel.
1 Corinthians 12 PAul made it clear how we become members of the true church, 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
We are part of the Chruch by means of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Again in Ephesians 4 he reaffirms that fact:
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
First we are to have love for one another and endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit, here is the key.
4 There is one body (the Body of Christ, The Church), and one Spirit (the Holy Spirit), even as ye are called in one hope of your calling (of Salvation to Jesus and in Him we find our hope);
5 One Lord (The Lord Jesus), one faith (Faith in Him), one baptism (of the Holy Spirit),
6 One God and Father of all (self explainatory), who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Unto all of us is given Grace by the gift of Christ who paid for our sins and became our atonement. So Paul emphasis the Baptism of the Holy Spirit not water baptism as placing us in the One Body.
Kind of ironic that one can be placed by the Holy Spirit into the "true Church" Bride/Body of Christ when born again, but we can be refused membership into the "visible" Church here on earth?
Kind of ironic that one can be placed by the Holy Spirit into the "true Church" Bride/Body of Christ when born again, but we can be refused membership into the "visible" Church here on earth?
Very true. The Great Commission does require the believer to be baptized by immersion, since it is required that makes it an ordinance of the church just as much as the Lord's supper. We are told it is to be done in the Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Verse 19 is a command from God to be baptized and how, verse 20 says we are to follow Christ command and so it is required to show the world we have been saved but I see no where in scripture it is required for membership in the local church. Just a matter of being obedient to Christ in being baptized.
Very true. The Great Commission does require the believer to be baptized by immersion, since it is required that makes it an ordinance of the church just as much as the Lord's supper. We are told it is to be done in the Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Verse 19 is a command from God to be baptized and how, verse 20 says we are to follow Christ command and so it is required to show the world we have been saved but I see no where in scripture it is required for membership in the local church. Just a matter of being obedient to Christ in being baptized.
Think that when a person has been saved SHOULD be water baptized, but that he needs tio have good instruction first in what it really affirms and means...
Too many people getting dunked in water, w/o getting dunked by the Holy Spirit first!
Think that when a person has been saved SHOULD be water baptized, but that he needs tio have good instruction first in what it really affirms and means...
Too many people getting dunked in water, w/o getting dunked by the Holy Spirit first!
I think there should be a new Christians SS class to go through and teach the New Believer the basics of everything and once they understand baptism then perform the baptism, my Pastor usually performs it he next Sunday Morning, my 7 year old Grandson received Christ back in April and I baptized him and another young man about 3 weeks later. Had my wife question him and watch to see if it appeared real, the thing that really convinced me he had truly received Christ was that he took hi N.T. and said Mawmaw I have to have it close so I can read it more.
Something others tell me is at 7 without anyone telling him or requiring it he memorized the RA motto.
Anyway I will continue to monitor him and ensure all is right.
Tom Butler
New Member
Where do you see Paul saying church membership is conditional on Water Baptism?
----------------snip---------
1 Corinthians 12 PAul made it clear how we become members of the true church, 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
We are part of the Chruch by means of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
In another thread I posted the following correct rendering of I Cor 12:13:
Then you appeal to Ephesians 4 to buttress your rendering:For in(Greek en) one spirit (of unity), we are all (water) baptized (immersed) into the body (the church at Corinth)"
In fact the passage is consistent with my view rather than yours.Again in Ephesians 4 he reaffirms that fact:
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
As I have shown, I Cor 12:13 establishes water baptism to place us in the local church. The body Paul mentions is the congregation at Corinth. He affirms this in 13:27, when he describe the FBC Corinth as "YE are the body of Christ."So Paul emphasis the Baptism of the Holy Spirit not water baptism as placing us in the One Body.
A large part of the letter to Corinth is aimed at correcting problems in that congregation. The context of chapters 11-12-13-14 confirms this.
No Universal Church in prospect here.
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humblethinker
Active Member
In another thread I posted the following correct rendering of I Cor 12:13:
Quote:
For in(Greek en) one spirit (of unity), we are all (water) baptized (immersed) into the body (the church at Corinth)"
I looked at 6 different versions and none showed a lowercase 's' spirit as you show above.
Also, are you saying that Paul was saying that he was baptized into the local church at Corinth?
humblethinker
Active Member
Where do you see Paul saying church membership is conditional on Water Baptism?
I didn't see where Paul says that... That was my point.
I think you misread one of the sentences in that post (I think you read "idea"-singular- instead of "ideas"-plural.)
In another thread I posted the following correct rendering of I Cor 12:13:
Then you appeal to Ephesians 4 to buttress your rendering:
In fact the passage is consistent with my view rather than yours.
As I have shown, I Cor 12:13 establishes water baptism to place us in the local church. The body Paul mentions is the congregation at Corinth. He affirms this in 13:27, when he describe the FBC Corinth as "YE are the body of Christ."
A large part of the letter to Corinth is aimed at correcting problems in that congregation. The context of chapters 11-12-13-14 confirms this.
No Universal Church in prospect here.
Look back at 1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
The Body is one, the Body of the church is one not seperate and Who makes it into One, we drink into One Spirit, the Holy Spirit and how do we Drink in the Spirit through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, so that by the one Spirit we are Baptized, Baptism of the Holy Spirit, into the one Body, the Church made up of all Believers. Clearly Paul is letting the Corinthians know that the Holy Spirit Baptized them. We are immersed in the Holy Spirit, He Indwells us, the example of the cucumber being immersed in vinager and the vinager saturates the cucumber to make it a pickle, they become one with the vinegar indwelling the pickle. Paul's point was that they were trying to operate seperately rather than in the unity of the Spirit.
The Ephesians 4 passage again,
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Verse 3 We are to endeavour to keep the unity of the Spirit, again the emphais is on the Spirit and keeping unity just as it was in the Corinthians passage. Verse 4 He says there is one body and one Spirit again the emphasis on the Holy Spirit.
Paul then emphasizes it yet again there is:
One Hope of your Calling. That hope is in Jesus Christ
One Body (the Chruch) which is made up of all born again believers
One Faith which is in Jesus for salvation
One Baptism, who makes places us into one Body and one Faith, the Holy Spirit, so this is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
One God and Father of All
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