What is Hyper-Arminianism?

[Skandelon]

In other words, you won't affirm you were wrong, and that the Scriptures affirm "my" doctrine.

No. In other words, I won't debate against a logical fallacy where you assume an unproven premise. That would become a child like game of "nuh-huh"..."uh-huh" and I've got better things to do. If you would like to present a logical and supported argument I'd be glad to engage it.

 

[preacher4truth]

No. In other words, I won't debate against a logical fallacy where you assume an unproven premise. That would become a child like game of "nuh-huh"..."uh-huh" and I've got better things to do. If you would like to present a logical and supported argument I'd be glad to engage it.

"All that the Father giveth me will come to me." - Jesus Christ.

Bible.

How many of them?

To you? You said it, unproven and fallacy.

This is also OT teaching. God reserves to Himself His own.

I relax in that.

 

[Skandelon]

You won't even address the Scriptures I refer to

In the post I accused you of question begging there were no scriptural references.

because you can never be wrong.

Sure I can. After all, I was a Calvinist once.

The doctrine that you try to disallow, n that you say in my doctrine teaches all that will be saved will be is affirmed in Scriptures.

I have no idea what this means and I don't think it addresses the subject of hyperism.

You're incorrect. It's Gods Doctrine.

Again, that begs the question.

 

[Skandelon]

"All that the Father giveth me will come to me." - Jesus Christ.

Bible.

How many of them?

To you? You said it, unproven and fallacy.

This is also OT teaching. God reserves to Himself His own.

I relax in that.

You are changing the subject. We are talking about Hyperist. Stay on topic please.

 

[Skandelon]

You mean the people you are claiming don't even exist? Confusing.

What is incorrect specifically? Make an actual argument about what I've stated and provide support to back up your claims then we will be engaged in a real discussion of ideas and arguments.

Do Calvinists believe salvation is all of God?
Do Hyper-Calvinists believe salvation is all of God?

The answer to those two questions, I would presume, is "yes." You have continued to argue that because hyper-Cals believe it is "all of God" that there is nothing wrong with what they do believe and teach.

You have written:
1. "hyper-calvinism = God does all, to Him all Glory. How can this be wrong?"

2. Hyper-cal is more a "phantom fear,"...

3. "The ultimate end of hyper-cal is All God."

4. "if hyper-cals ultimate end means it is ALL GOD, then call me that."

5. "let's pretend that whatever point they (hyper-cals) believe in be true, what is its ultimate and logical end? I contend that it would be that it is All God. And at the end of the day, if their tenets were absolutely true, would we still, Glorify God, and still, ultimately trust in Him, and believe that all of His Sovereign control and purposes are Just and Holy (as HE can be none other)?"

6. "lets say there were a hyper-cal church, that faithfully preached the Gospel, saw many saved/baptised, and attributed it all to the Glory of God, then what problem do we have with them?"

Allow me to clearly answer the last question quoted above: The "problem we have with them" is that they don't believe evangelism is necessary. They don't believe in supporting missions. They don't believe the gospel is meant to be preached to all peoples. They don't believe God loves all men. That is what our problem is with them and it should be a problem for you too, if you are not a hyper-Cal yourself.

Now, do you see what you are doing? You are equating a belief shared by hyper-Cals with that of non-hypers ("its all God") in order to argue that there is nothing really wrong with what Hypers believe and teach. That should offend non-hyper Calvinists on this board.

This is the post regarding the subject matter of this thread...

 

[preacher4truth]

In the post I accused you of question begging there were no scriptural references.

Sure I can. After all, I was a Calvinist once.

I have no idea what this means and I don't think it addresses the subject of hyperism.
Again, that begs the question.

Everything begs the question when you're wrong.

You put them all in the same boat, not me. You won't address that either. Why? You made it up. You run when exposed and change the subject.


I said I alluded to one w/o reference (by implication). Pay attention.

All that the Father__________ me will _____ to____????? does that ring of Scripture to you?

 

[Skandelon]

Everything begs the question when you're wrong.

Ironically that statement begs the question too. Just study up on logical fallacies and I think you will understand.

You put them all in the same boat, not me. You won't address that either. Why? You made it up. You run when exposed and change the subject.

I'm not "running" anywhere P4T. I'm right here. You argued that because hyper-Cals believe "it is all God" that there is nothing wrong with it. I've clearly shown that in my last post.

I said I alluded to one w/o reference (by implication).

You said, "According to God's doctrine all that are His will come to Him. I just happen to embrace this truth whole-heartedly." And in doing so you beg the question by assuming (1) Calvinism is "God's doctrine," (2) that this verse supports Calvinism, and (3) that I would disagree with this statement or find it "untrue."

 

[Winman]

Everything begs the question when you're wrong.

You put them all in the same boat, not me. You won't address that either. Why? You made it up. You run when exposed and change the subject.


I said I alluded to one w/o reference (by implication). Pay attention.

All that the Father__________ me will _____ to____????? does that ring of Scripture to you?

You are very selective in scripture, just as you leave out part of Ephesians 2:8 in your signature. You have to take all scripture into consideration.

Jn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

You like this verse because you think it supports your doctrine that God chose you before the foundation of the world and gave you to Christ. But this is not all Jesus said in John 6.

Jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

You like this verse too, don't you? But Jesus wasn't finished.

Jn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

This is the verse that Calvinists commonly leave out. This is error, because verse 45 explains verses 37 and 44.

Verse 37 says all that the Father gives Jesus will come to him. Verse 44 says no man can come to him unless the Father draws him.

But most importantly, verse 45 explains how men are both given and drawn. They are taught by God. How are they taught? Are they supernaturally given this knowledge? No, they are taught by the word of God. Only those who have heard the word of God and learned from God come to Jesus. Jesus did not teach that men are supernaturally zapped to come to him, he taught that men are taught and learn from hearing God. And the way of hearing God is through the scriptures.

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The word of God is quick (alive) and powerful. If a man will hear God's word and believe it, the word of God itself will regenerate a man. I do not understand that, but that is what the scriptures teach. God's word is powerful, God spoke the universe into existence. But God's words must be received and believed to be effectual.

1 Thes 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

The word of God only effectually works in those that believe it.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The gospel is God's part in salvation. It is the power of God to save a man. But man has a responsibility to believe the gospel when he hears it. The gospel will not profit a man unless it is mixed with faith in them that hear it.

 

[preacher4truth]

Ironically that statement begs the question too. Just study up on logical fallacies and I think you will understand.

I'm not "running" anywhere P4T. I'm right here. You argued that because hyper-Cals believe "it is all God" that there is nothing wrong with it. I've clearly shown that in my last post.

You said, "According to God's doctrine all that are His will come to Him. I just happen to embrace this truth whole-heartedly." And in doing so you beg the question by assuming (1) Calvinism is "God's doctrine," (2) that this verse supports Calvinism, and (3) that I would disagree with this statement or find it "untrue."

You're still ducking, and I'm not biting.

Get it?

I'm walking with God. Your dodging and objective are plain to see.

But have a great day friend.

- Peace

 

[Skandelon]

Can you reply to my post where I showed you how you are mistakenly lumping all Calvinists in with hypers?

You have written:
1. "hyper-calvinism = God does all, to Him all Glory. How can this be wrong?"

2. Hyper-cal is more a "phantom fear,"...

3. "The ultimate end of hyper-cal is All God."

4. "if hyper-cals ultimate end means it is ALL GOD, then call me that."

5. "let's pretend that whatever point they (hyper-cals) believe in be true, what is its ultimate and logical end? I contend that it would be that it is All God. And at the end of the day, if their tenets were absolutely true, would we still, Glorify God, and still, ultimately trust in Him, and believe that all of His Sovereign control and purposes are Just and Holy (as HE can be none other)?"

6. "lets say there were a hyper-cal church, that faithfully preached the Gospel, saw many saved/baptised, and attributed it all to the Glory of God, then what problem do we have with them?"

Allow me to clearly answer the last question quoted above: The "problem we have with them" is that they don't believe evangelism is necessary. They don't believe in supporting missions. They don't believe the gospel is meant to be preached to all peoples. They don't believe God loves all men. That is what our problem is with them and it should be a problem for you too, if you are not a hyper-Cal yourself.

Now, do you see what you are doing? You are equating a belief shared by hyper-Cals with that of non-hypers ("its all God") in order to argue that there is nothing really wrong with what Hypers believe and teach. That should offend non-hyper Calvinists on this board.

 

[Skandelon]

Well? Do Cals and Hyper-Cals both affirm "its all of God" or not? What is the distinction between them? What makes a hyper-cal hyper, P4T?

Are hyper-Cals right or wrong?

 

[Robert Snow]

It certainly plays out to humanism, glorification of man over God. How about just mere glorification of man period? Is that bad enough? Certainly.

Hyper-cal? Plays out to its all God.

If I were a Hyper-Calvinists, I would say the same things as you. It doesn't matter that they are not true.

A person gets saved in spite of Calvinism, not because of it!

 

[Robert Snow]

"All that the Father giveth me will come to me." - Jesus Christ.

Bible.

How many of them?

To you? You said it, unproven and fallacy.

This is also OT teaching. God reserves to Himself His own.

I relax in that.

Finally you say something scriptural! :tongue3:

Of course, the ones who freely turn to Christ and trust Him for salvation are the "ones" that come to God.

The Gospel is presented in the power of the Holy Spirit and those who yield to the Gospel call are the Elect, the ones that belong to God!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What makes a hyper-cal hyper?

Maybe too much caffeine? I know, bad joke....:laugh:

 

[Old Union Brother]

Maybe too much caffeine? I know, bad joke....:laugh:

VERY :laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Winman]

The day Annoying Orange became a hyper Calvinist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7sJyL4WMXY

 

[TomVols]

I see a tad more Hyper-Arminianism than Hyper Calvinism, which isn't saying much because Hyper-Calvinism is virtually non-existent here.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

VERY :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I know, dumb Marine right?

What I personally feel (perhaps I'm wrong) but I see hyper Arm types will have the lines of thought run its course in the direction of liberalism and ultimately atheism. If you come up north to NJ you will find that only 2 % of professing Christians go to church. That is pathetic!

Even supposed reformed churches (Like PCUSA )have fallen victim to this liberal malaise & are shrinking yearly. I went past my old PCUSA & there is a sign out in the front lawn saying other people besides Presbyterians are welcome here. HUH.... the shrinkage is evident. Thats not good for Christianity.

However the J. Gresham Machen Orthodox Presbyterian Church down the road is prospering.... whats up with dat? Thats the church that I had trouble with because they told me my dead child was in hell (Due to me & his mother NOT BEING covenantal) they didnt say Christian, it was Covenantal. I view them as Hyper Calvinists & I rejected them. It was my brother, then a Arminian IFB Pastor that kept me believing it is not me that put my child in hell so Im always grateful to the Baptist's who all handled it scripturally. No matter what baptist pastor I spoke to Armenian or Calvinist/ Reformed, the thread was the same...... an assurance that my child rests with My Savior. Now it took me years to come to faith, but after speaking to the Hyper-Calvinist, I would have never considered God again. I was even hurt & they started my wife drinking to hide her pain & sorrow. They hurt us BADLY! So I'm supprised to see them doing well. Even a radio show!!! So maybe I only think their Hypers!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I see a tad more Hyper-Arminianism than Hyper Calvinism, which isn't saying much because Hyper-Calvinism is virtually non-existent here.

Seriously.....you have no Presbyterian Or Reformed presence what so ever?

 

[Rippon]

Seriously.....you have no Presbyterian Or Reformed presence what so ever?

Hyper-Calvinism among Presbyterians and the Reformed denominations? Nada,not an iota. It is a unique Baptist thingie especially among the Gospel Standard folks in the UK. (Whom I appreciate,by the way.)