preacher4truth
Active Member
It certainly plays out to humanism, glorification of man over God. How about just mere glorification of man period? Is that bad enough? Certainly.
Hyper-cal? Plays out to its all God.
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What is Hyper-Arminianism?
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It certainly plays out to humanism, glorification of man over God. How about just mere glorification of man period? Is that bad enough? Certainly.
Hyper-cal? Plays out to its all God.
Dave....Im not on the attack....Im just drawing conclusions based on discussion. There are many fair minded & godly Arminians out there & some are my own kin & family. However Ive never seen a outright sharlitan in the mix of Calvinistic Pastors & elders..... I will admit some nut jobs & a___retentive's (IE SUPER Hyper-Cals) but their not getting rich from it....more their EGO's (Edge God Out)..... I'd conclude we both got our own problems going on.
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I've never seen a true Arminian "charlatan"...and you won't find a hyper-cal "charlatan" either based on what they do (or rather don't do).
What flaw? Skandelon is correct. Is a muslim an arminian since they are not a calvinist?
...and didn't you just send me a PM saying you were tired of the attacks here
Your perceiving it as an attack....Its not attack. And I wish you would abstain from constantly blabbing out private conversations. I would never do that to anyone (Its Private) Right!
Please embellish on that ..... I need more to understand what your saying.
This is not an attack? "Still the problem rests with your theology (it makes for false prophets) or should I say Profits"
My theology makes disciples, followers of Christ, not false prophets. I take great offense to such a charge.
I also did not "blab" our conversation but pointed out a perceived hypocrisy.
You won't find a hyper-cal TV personality because they can care less about evangelism...why go on TV?
1st, Correct in private!
next, I do not see the problem. Can you not admit you have people who are disingenuous amongst your own. Ive admitted it with mine.
And if you cant, then look around. Ive seen it through a brother who was a Arminian Pastor & heard stories. Sorry but you guys dont necessarily always walk on water.
I agree with you. God will save them & then they will come to you. Total disregard for the great commission.
Now Im confused....who does....give me some examples
quantumfaith
Active Member
Oh, sorry. I know that, just trying to be "cute". No problems no worries Brother. You and I may disagree, but we respect and love one another. Blessings.
Thats cool.....:thumbs:
You're confusing me...examples of what?
What did you mean by "amongst your own"?Some observations.
It is wrong to put every non-Cal into the Arminian camp as some have done.
It is wrong to slander every Arminian with a "Man-centered" theology.
It is correct to say that in both camps of the Calvinist and the Arminian that there are extremists (both saved and unsaved), who hold to doctrines that are well outside the tenets of basic Christian orthodoxy.
It is wrong to put every non-Cal into the Arminian camp as some have done.
It is wrong to slander every Arminian with a "Man-centered" theology.
It is correct to say that in both camps of the Calvinist and the Arminian that there are extremists (both saved and unsaved), who hold to doctrines that are well outside the tenets of basic Christian orthodoxy.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Fallacy of Question Begging: "is a type of logical fallacy in which the proposition to be proven is assumed implicitly or explicitly in the premise."
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Incorrect. How many times do we need to point out that the difference in Calvinists and hyper-calvinists is that hypers negate the need for evangelism (among other errors). Calvinists who are not hyper affirm "all God" (as do Arminians by the way, but that is whole other discussion).
So, for you to put Cals in the same boat as hypers as being those who support the concept of "its all God," should offend the Cals here. I'm surprised some haven't corrected you.
preacher4truth
Active Member
You still act like you're teaching. You're not. Always the same circle of things I already know about "hyper cals."
You're incorrect.
That you see them both in the same boat as per me, then you aren't paying attention friend. I've never come close to saying that. Ever. You put them in the same boat. It's always the same thing, always saying I said something I haven't said.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
You mean the people you are claiming don't even exist? Confusing.
What is incorrect specifically? Make an actual argument about what I've stated and provide support to back up your claims then we will be engaged in a real discussion of ideas and arguments.
Do Calvinists believe salvation is all of God?
Do Hyper-Calvinists believe salvation is all of God?
The answer to those two questions, I would presume, is "yes." You have continued to argue that because hyper-Cals believe it is "all of God" that there is nothing wrong with what they do believe and teach.
You have written:
1. "hyper-calvinism = God does all, to Him all Glory. How can this be wrong?"
2. Hyper-cal is more a "phantom fear,"...
3. "The ultimate end of hyper-cal is All God."
4. "if hyper-cals ultimate end means it is ALL GOD, then call me that."
5. "let's pretend that whatever point they (hyper-cals) believe in be true, what is its ultimate and logical end? I contend that it would be that it is All God. And at the end of the day, if their tenets were absolutely true, would we still, Glorify God, and still, ultimately trust in Him, and believe that all of His Sovereign control and purposes are Just and Holy (as HE can be none other)?"
6. "lets say there were a hyper-cal church, that faithfully preached the Gospel, saw many saved/baptised, and attributed it all to the Glory of God, then what problem do we have with them?"
Allow me to clearly answer the last question quoted above: The "problem we have with them" is that they don't believe evangelism is necessary. They don't believe in supporting missions. They don't believe the gospel is meant to be preached to all peoples. They don't believe God loves all men. That is what our problem is with them and it should be a problem for you too, if you are not a hyper-Cal yourself.
Now, do you see what you are doing? You are equating a belief shared by hyper-Cals with that of non-hypers ("its all God") in order to argue that there is nothing really wrong with what Hypers believe and teach. That should offend non-hyper Calvinists on this board.
preacher4truth
Active Member
In other words, you won't affirm you were wrong, and that the Scriptures affirm "my" doctrine.
You won't even address the Scriptures I refer to (not by verse ref) because you can never be wrong.
The doctrine that you try to disallow, n that you say in my doctrine teaches all that will be saved will be is affirmed in Scriptures.
You're incorrect. It's Gods Doctrine.
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