Faith Received Part Trey!!

[preacher4truth]

Can you show me from the Bible where God gives faith to the unregenerate?
Just one verse?
I don't believe you can.

Romans 10:17 "So faith COMES BY HEARING, and hearing BY THE WORD OF CHRIST."

Where did it come from DHK? Also, the context of Romans 10 here is preaching to the who? That's right, the unregenerate. The lost.

Again, where did it come from DHK? It came by hearing, iut came BY the WORD of Christ. In other words, you didn't have it. Give God the glory.

All that Christ Speaks is life.

That's enough, now go do what you do with it.

I've proven enough, no need to get into a tango with you over it. I know your beliefs, and I also am full aware of their historic base, whether you want it to be brought out or not.

It's ALL God. Every single beautiful glorious bit of it. ALL Him.

 

[JesusFan]

First notice that these gifts are given to the believers, not to the unregenerate. God does not give the unregenerate spiritual gifts. He does not give the gift of faith to the unsaved. There is no verse in the NT that teaches that he does.

Secondly, these particular gifts ceased at the end of the first century.

Third, notice how the gift of faith is coupled with the gift of healing.

Fourth, can you point to anyone in the world today that is practicing the Biblical gift of healing? God does not give spiritual gifts to the unregenerate. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches this error.

Where does faith come from:
Faith comes from hearing, and hearing from the Word of God.

faith though is produced, created in Men who are abled by God to be actually able to hear and respond to Gospel...

Bible has power to produce saving faith, but NOT in everyone who hears, ONLY to those whom the Lord has granted "ears to hear" by elective act of Divine Grace!

 

[DHK]

Romans 10:17 "So faith COMES BY HEARING, and hearing BY THE WORD OF CHRIST."

Where did it come from DHK?

It came from hearing the Word of God. That has been my position all along. It wasn't a gift from God. The unbeliever must hear the Word of God and be convinced that it is true and then put HIS faith in that message.

It came by hearing. In other words, you didn't have it.

I had to become convinced of its veracity; the death, the burial and the resurrection--the power that Christ indeed could save me--not my religion, my confirmation or baptism, but faith in Christ alone before I was saved. I put my faith in Christ. Sola Fide.

All that Christ Speaks is life.

Yes, his words are life. Do we accept them by faith.

That's enough, now go do what you do with it.

I've proven enough, no need to get into a tango with you over it. I know your beliefs, and I also am full aware of their historic base, whether you want it to be brought out or not.

It's ALL God. Every single beautiful glorious bit of it. ALL Him.

You haven't shown a single verse that faith is a gift given by God to the unbeliever, have you?

 

[DHK]

faith though is produced, created in Men who are abled by God to be actually able to hear and respond to Gospel...

Bible has power to produce saving faith, but NOT in everyone who hears, ONLY to those whom the Lord has granted "ears to hear" by elective act of Divine Grace!

Where does the Bible teach that?

 

[preacher4truth]

You need to slow way down and rethink this. (But I know you won't because you being right is more important than proclaiming truth)

Romans 10:17 "So faith COMES BY HEARING, and hearing BY THE WORD OF CHRIST."

Where did it come from DHK? Also, the context of Romans 10 here is preaching to the who? That's right, the unregenerate. The lost.

Please twist the context to some other because you have to to prove your error.

Again, where did it come from DHK? It came by hearing, iut came BY the WORD of Christ. In other words, you didn't have it. Give God the glory.

All that Christ Speaks is life.

That's enough, now go do what you do with it.

I've proven enough, no need to get into a tango with you over it. I know your beliefs, and I also am full aware of their historic base, whether you want it to be brought out or not.

It's ALL God. Every single beautiful glorious bit of it. ALL Him.

It came from hearing the Word of God. That has been my position all along. It wasn't a gift from God.

Total error on your part DHK.

It came by the word of Christ, it was not in you.

The context of Romans 10 is the lost DHK.

But you refuse to believe it. I've seen this in your four threads now.

- Peace

 

[preacher4truth]

Where does the Bible teach that?

I just showed you.

The context is the lost, and it is perfectly and plainly clear where their faith came from. From the same God whose words produced the world, He also produced their faith, He is the source of all life. :thumbsup:

This is the same exact faith Peter spoke of in 2 Peter 1:1.

Glory to Him!

 

[JesusFan]

Where does the Bible teach that?

Ephesians 2:1-10
Apostle Paul clearly teaches us here that while we WERE DEAD in our sins and transgessians before Holy God, he saved us through the Lord jesus Chrsit, act of mercy and grace to grant us the faith and grace found in Cross of Christ!

So Paul said God saw ALL of us as dead people, so how can the dead raise themselves back to life?

That perhaps we ARE dead in our natures and in order to believe on Jesus, God has to do 'His work" first?

 

[DHK]

Total error on your part DHK.

It came by the word of Christ, it was not in you.

The context of Romans 10 is the lost DHK.

But you refuse to believe it. I've seen this in your four threads now.

- Peace

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

That is what the verse says.
It does not say that faith is a gift. Nowhere can you get that out of that verse. It has been my position all along that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. The source of faith is by hearing the Word of God. It is not a gift injected by God into an unsaved person. There is no gift here. It comes by hearing, by being convinced that what is heard is true.

Faith is confidence. That is why it comes by hearing the word of God.
I have faith in my wife, when she says she will make supper that she will do that. I have faith in what she says. As I have faith in her words, how much more faith do I have in God's word. It is not a gift. It is confidence in the word of another, and in this case God's word.

 

[JesusFan]

I just showed you.

The context is the lost, and it is perfectly and plainly clear where their faith came from. From the same God whose words produced the world, He also produced their faith, He is the source of all life. :thumbsup:

This is the same exact faith Peter spoke of in 2 Peter 1:1.

Glory to Him!

Ephesians 2:1-10
Apostle Paul clearly teaches us here that while we WERE DEAD in our sins and transgessians before Holy God, he saved us through the Lord jesus Chrsit, act of mercy and grace to grant us the faith and grace found in Cross of Christ!

 

[DHK]

Ephesians 2:1-10
Apostle Paul clearly teaches us here that while we WERE DEAD in our sins and transgessians before Holy God, he saved us through the Lord jesus Chrsit, act of mercy and grace to grant us the faith and grace found in Cross of Christ!

So Paul said God saw ALL of us as dead people, so how can the dead raise themselves back to life?

That perhaps we ARE dead in our natures and in order to believe on Jesus, God has to do 'His work" first?

What is your definition of "dead"?

Go back to Adam.
In the day that Adam sinned he would surely die.
Adam sinned; Adam died.
Read the rest of Genesis 3 and see how after Adam died, he carries on a long conversation with God. How can a dead man communicate with God? Adam was dead, and yet talked with God. How is this possible? It is only possible if you have the right definition of "dead."

Once you find the key to the above scenario, then your problem will be solved.

 

[preacher4truth]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

That is what the verse says.
It does not say that faith is a gift. Nowhere can you get that out of that verse. It has been my position all along that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. The source of faith is by hearing the Word of God. It is not a gift injected by God into an unsaved person. There is no gift here. It comes by hearing, by being convinced that what is heard is true.

Faith is confidence. That is why it comes by hearing the word of God.
I have faith in my wife, when she says she will make supper that she will do that. I have faith in what she says. As I have faith in her words, how much more faith do I have in God's word. It is not a gift. It is confidence in the word of another, and in this case God's word.

Oh please with this twisting nonsense.

Where did it come from DHK? By where DHK? From WHOM DHK? Answer that.

If it came from HIM (which it did as I've proven) then guess what? It's a gift. Now give Him glory.

Quit your fight against revealed truth.

It's plainly seen and taught. You've been shown numerous times and ways.

- Peace

 

[Winman]

Retract what others have apparently said, in the same thread, that faith is not a gift from God? This was also Pelagius belief.

You've not read winmans threads, that man is good, not bad, with proof-texts? This was also Pelagius belief.

I'm not retracting what is well known fact.

I don't know for certain what Pelagius believed, but I have repeatedly said it is impossible for any man to believe in Jesus Christ without God's grace, but I see God's revelation through the scriptures as that grace, where you believe God has to magically zap a person to believe.

Let me ask you, how did you learn of Jesus? Did Jesus appear to you as he did to Paul on the road to Damascus? How did you learn of Adam and Eve, or Moses? How did you learn of Jonah? Why, you learned like the rest of us by the word of God. If not for the word of God, you and I, and everyone else would be in utter darkness and without hope. We could not have believed on Jesus unless God came down from heaven and revealed himself to us. This is God's grace, his WORD.

Faith comes by hearing and believeing God's word, this is exactly what Paul said. Paul (nor anyone else) ever says God has to magically zap someone to believe.

If not for God's grace through his holy Word it would be absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for any man to believe in Christ.

You falsely accuse me, the problem being you don't understand scripture.

 

[JesusFan]

What is your definition of "dead"?

Go back to Adam.
In the day that Adam sinned he would surely die.
Adam sinned; Adam died.
Read the rest of Genesis 3 and see how after Adam died, he carries on a long conversation with God. How can a dead man communicate with God? Adam was dead, and yet talked with God. How is this possible? It is only possible if you have the right definition of "dead."

Once you find the key to the above scenario, then your problem will be solved.

Dunno, you have to ask that of the Apostle Paul, as His God revealed definition of being "spiritually dead" just happens to agree with mine!

 

[preacher4truth]

I don't know for certain what Pelagius believed, but I have repeatedly said it is impossible for any man to believe in Jesus Christ without God's grace, but I see God's revelation through the scriptures as that grace, where you believe God has to magically zap a person to believe.

Let me ask you, how did you learn of Jesus? Did Jesus appear to you as he did to Paul on the road to Damascus? How did you learn of Adam and Eve, or Moses? How did you learn of Jonah? Why, you learned like the rest of us by the word of God. If not for the word of God, you and I, and everyone else would be in utter darkness and without hope. We could not have believed on Jesus unless God came down from heaven and revealed himself to us. This is God's grace, his WORD.

Faith comes by hearing and believeing God's word, this is exactly what Paul said. Paul (nor anyone else) ever says God has to magically zap someone to believe.

If not for God's grace through his holy Word it would be absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for any man to believe in Christ.

You falsely accuse me, the problem being you don't understand scripture.

After reading this it is painfully obvious you don't know what was said prior, as I've said the same things. I also cracked up laughing because you think yu're rebuking me when you are in fact basically repeating what I've said.

Congrats! :thumbsup:

You're repeating what I've said Winman. Now all you need to do is recognize faith as a gift from God.

Try reading what I say, then responding? Yo?

- Peace

 

[preacher4truth]

Dunno, you have to ask that of the Apostle Paul, as His God revealed definition of being "spiritually dead" just happens to agree with mine!

I was accused of not sticking to the OP (which is not true) and now the accuser is off on this "dead" thing again? Which is not in the OP?

Wow!

 

[preacher4truth]

It's simple really.

To whom is the context of Romans 10:17 referring?

- The lost

Where did those within its context receive their faith?

- From Christ

It's not really that difficult.

But it is when it proves your premise wrong, and pride is involved. Thus the fighting against it.

Faith is a gift to the lost from Christ. It's proven. No need to fight it any further, just answer the two primary questions above and presto! it's all God.


- Peace and Grace

 

[Winman]

After reading this it is painfully obvious you don't know what was said prior, as I've said the same things. I also cracked up laughing because you think yu're rebuking me when you are in fact basically repeating what I've said.

Congrats! :thumbsup:

You're repeating what I've said Winman. Now all you need to do is recognize faith as a gift from God.

Try reading what I say, then responding? Yo?

- Peace

Every ability we have, whether it be walking, talking, speaking, sight, the ability to think is a gift from God. And the ability to trust or believe is such a gift that is common to all men.

Men are not so utterly depraved they cannot believe God's word when they hear it, you will not find one verse to support this.

Jesus marvelled at his fellow countrymen's unbelief. This makes no sense unless Jesus fully expected them to believe. This verse alone overthrows the Calvinist concept of Total Inability. If unregenerate man is unable to believe, why would Jesus marvel at their unbelief.

You need to listen to the scriptures instead of men.

 

[Winman]

After reading this it is painfully obvious you don't know what was said prior, as I've said the same things. I also cracked up laughing because you think yu're rebuking me when you are in fact basically repeating what I've said.

Congrats! :thumbsup:

You're repeating what I've said Winman. Now all you need to do is recognize faith as a gift from God.

Try reading what I say, then responding? Yo?

- Peace

Every ability we have, whether it be walking, talking, hearing, sight, the ability to think... is a gift from God. And the ability to trust or believe is such a gift that is common to all men.

Men are not so utterly depraved they cannot believe God's word when they hear it, you will not find one verse to support this.

Jesus marvelled at his fellow countrymen's unbelief. This makes no sense unless Jesus fully expected them to believe. This verse alone overthrows the Calvinist concept of Total Inability. If unregenerate man is unable to believe, why would Jesus marvel at their unbelief?

You need to listen to the scriptures instead of men.

 

[preacher4truth]

Every ability we have, whether it be walking, talking, speaking, sight, the ability to think is a gift from God. And the ability to trust or believe is such a gift that is common to all men.

Men are not so utterly depraved they cannot believe God's word when they hear it, you will not find one verse to support this.

Jesus marvelled at his fellow countrymen's unbelief. This makes no sense unless Jesus fully expected them to believe. This verse alone overthrows the Calvinist concept of Total Inability. If unregenerate man is unable to believe, why would Jesus marvel at their unbelief.

You need to listen to the scriptures instead of men.

Which men do I listen to winman? Answer with proof quotes.


Which men have I quoted Winman (other than Pelagius false teaching as warning)? Answer with proof quotes.
Prove I listen to them and not Scripture.

You need to listen to some men and Scripture. Possibly men first, Godly men who know the Bible. Your interpretation and hermeneutics are in serious error as is seen throughout your teachings in many threads. They can help point this out an lead you in the right direction.

You don't comprehend what you read. Here is proof:

You repeated what I said in your last post, and then rebuke me, in total blindness because I said the same thing you said! And for what reason winman? Because you read things and can't comprehend what you've just read, and then you rebuke me for saying what you just said!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!! Congrats Winman!!!!! :laugh:

You seriously should go to Bible School as you've suggested you should in the past. It is imperative for you to do so.

- Peace

 

[psalms109:31]

Romans 6
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[Or through] Christ Jesus our Lord.

I see the gift of God is eternal life through and in Christ not apart from Him or within my self.