Were the original Baptist missionaries Calvinist?

Thanks for the good input, Jim. I have to run to the church, or I'd talk more. Guess I should have a sermon for tomorrow! :saint:

My parents were candidates to go to Tibet under the CIM in the '40s, but couldn't go.

 

I've been mystified by the opinion that Hudson Taylor was a Calvinist. I have four biographies of him, and remember nothing Calvinistic from any of them. The previous quotes from Hudson Taylor were from when he was older. I think the second one especially shows that he was no Calvinist.

In order to say Taylor was a Calvinist, I think someone looked at the Calvinistic Methodist link (which I am unable to prove) and made an unwarranted assumption.

Even when Hudson was young, he held to the belief that one could "fall from grace" and lose one's salvation, contra the perseverance of the saints. He wrote, "I did not enjoy communion with God as heretofore, and felt something was wrong, so wrong that i feared I might fall away from grace and be finally lost" (Hudson Taylor, vol. 1, by Dr. & Mrs. Howard Taylor, p. 102).

Not only that, Taylor's parents withdrew from where they were members, and joined the nascent "Free Methodist" movement, taking Hudson with them. This was an Arminian group. But Taylor went even further, left that group and linked up with the Plymouth Brethren (ibid, p. 111). Hudson Taylor a Calvinist? No evidence so far.

 

Can you give me any quotes directly from Judson, Jim? I don't doubt you, but that's what the thread is about, quotes from the original sources.

I've been reading what I can find directly from Judson, and so far he's the same as I am on the sovereignty of God. Judson led an extremely tragic life, which might be compared to Job in the Bible: outlived his first two wives, lost several children, labored in an extremely difficult field, etc. At one point he went into the woods, dug an empty grave and tried to wish himself into it. At such times we must admit that God is Sovereign, he allowed things to happen to us as He did to Job, and in the midst of all our sorrow He has a wonderful purpose and plan.

Edited in: Jim, the book you mentioned has no quotes from Judson, though it does call him a Calvinist. I was able to do a search of the book on Amazon. It's actually a book opposing Calvinism. Perhaps you meant a different book.

 

No problem. Actually, I had fun looking up this book on Amazon, because when I did I looked up Robert Picirilli's book also, Grace, Faith, Free Will, which was mentioned by a reviewer. And the top reviewer there was "Yokohama Paul," my son, who got 78 of 79 "helpful" votes. :thumbsup:

 

A future theologian, maybe? :thumbs:

 

Thank you for your input.

 

Folks, a major problem with modern missiology is that it almost never examines the theology connection. To put it another way, there has been almost no research about how theology affects missions. Hence this thread.

Assumptions are often made, but proof is seldom supplied, as can be seen on this thread. Hudson Taylor was positively identified as a Calvinist, yet no one could supply original source quotes to that effect. I believe I've supplied sufficient quotes to show he was not. What about Adoniram Judson? No one has supplied quotes, only assumptions. That's not scholarship.

In missiology, I'm currently reading Communicating Christ Cross Culturally by David Hesselgrave. He is an excellent missiologist, but in this book he quotes Eugene Nida positively without ever examining Nida's neo-orthodoxy, which definitely impacted Nida's social theories.

Again, another excellent book is The Legacy of William Carey by Vishal & Ruth Mangalwadi. This book by two Indians examines the huge impact of Carey on Indian society in many areas, but especially in social reform. However, there are only a very few sentences about his theology, and to read the book you would never know he was a Calvinist.

So, any original source quotes from Carey about his doctrine and how it affected his ministry? His relationship with his insane wife?

 

Very good. Thank you. Original source quotes is what this thread is about. I'll take a look at Robert Hall's book on Google and see for myself what Carey meant. Carey was largely self taught in theology, so this kind of statement from him is very important.

 

Thank you.

Easy to see in the first few pages how Carey would have been helped in understanding the incarnation and trinity, key doctrines for confronting Hindus.

By the way, Carey's Bengali Bible is still in print and used. I saw a copy when I was in Bangladesh two years ago.

 

Good question.

I do think the two sides got along better than we do nowadays, anyway. I recently read of the split between Wesley and Whitefield, in spite of which each would not allow a new church of their brand to be started where the other group had one. And Wesley preached Whitefield's funeral.

 

Straying a little from the OP (mine own...), I think those missionaries (especially the three we've been talking about) knew the sovereignty of God in a more real and direct way, a practical way, than most of us today. Reading their biographies, I've been struck by the incredible hardships all three men suffered for Christ.

Comparatively, I've suffered very little physically as a missionary. But there have been times of inner pain so great that I knew the Holy Spirit was praying for me in groanings which cannot be uttered. To know God is in complete control at such times is a very great comfort.

Think of Judson, in a Burmese prison with his precious Bible translation mss. for his pillow. Every day they would come in and take a prisoner to be executed. His feet were tied to a pole which was elevated, causing pain. His diet was sparse, his clothes tattered, his dreams for Burmese disciples shattered. But God....

Think of Carey, with a mentally ill wife, in a country filled with lying, stealing and the most awful, pernicious idolatry. Then his warehouse burned down, and all his work was gone. But God....

There was Taylor, breaking new ground as a missionary, following the disgraced Gutzlaff's method of dressing like and acting like the Chinese, criticized on all sides by the other missoinaries. Then one day he was in a city in inland China, with everyone in town wanting the "foreign devils" dead, wondering if he would live the night. But God....