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Is this it?!
- Thread starter preacher4truth
- Start date
:thumbsup: :null:
I've noticed the same thing. That's why I have limited my time discussing eschatology. Nobody does their homework. Most don't know the difference between full and partial preterism.
convicted1
Guest
I have a question for the full-preterists on here. If the resurrection of the unjust and just occurred in AD 70, what happens to our natural bodies when we are buried, cremated, etc?? Does it just lay there until God destroys this earth with fervent heat.
I agree that MK isn't the correct interpretation, and that the Kingdom to come is "Spiritual" in nature. I am just really curious about y'alls take what happens to our natural bodies when we die. Our souls will either go to heaven or hell when it seperates from the body, but what about the natural body??? I am really confused, and want y'all to clarify you stance on this. Thanks in advance.
I agree that MK isn't the correct interpretation, and that the Kingdom to come is "Spiritual" in nature. I am just really curious about y'alls take what happens to our natural bodies when we die. Our souls will either go to heaven or hell when it seperates from the body, but what about the natural body??? I am really confused, and want y'all to clarify you stance on this. Thanks in advance.
preacher4truth
Active Member
You've noticed nothing except that I don't agree with this error. :thumbsup:
That would make then two of you incorrect. "Hastiness and shallow" means I don't agree with your position, or it must be hasty and shallow because what you two conclude is all truth, anything else is incorrect and someone didn't do their homework. Not so.
Stick to the facts without the personal innuendos?
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Once we start believing these things are only "spiritual" it then lends itself to virtually any interpretation. Tell me, what really is this "spiritual?" Anemic, weak, invisible, trivial, no biggie, in our hearts, in our minds? Jesus is now reigning in His Millenial Kingdom invisibly? This is it? All this prophecy throughout the OT and NT, and this is it?
I'm not buying it. I agree that Jerusalem being destroyed has happened as predicted. That this is the millenial reign? Not at all.
Literal, physical appearing and Kingdom.
- Peace
If I'm living in the new Heaven and Earth, take me home and shoot me! Or shoot me now, either way...
This old body needs a resurrection.
This old body needs a resurrection.preacher4truth
Active Member
If I'm living in the new Heaven and Earth, take me home and shoot me! Or shoot me now, either way...
They teach the resurrection is past and this is it. The sheep and goats judgment? Past. This is the Millenial reign. Can't you tell John? Can't you see it? It's already here! Yay! :wavey:
Sola Scriptura? No. Scriptura and Josephus who took on the Roman name Flavius. Then we have all the truth! Yeah sure. :laugh:
- Peace bro
You said:
Preterists have to assign this book to an earlier date to back up their views which are based upon a historian Josephus who took a Roman last name, Flavius.*
Wrong.
This religion reminds me of Hymenaeus, as they also say (many of them) the resurrection is past already.
Again wrong. The view kyredneck holds does no such thing.
This preterism is basically the church trying to suffice the higher-criticism/liberal-theology attack upon Gods Word. It's a fallacy and a hopeless teaching. I reject it.*
Wrong once again, liberals if anything assign later dating to the books of the OT and NT. If these evil liberals assign a pre-AD70 date to Revelation and the rest of the NT then in doing so the acknowledge the prophetic accuracy of the teachings of Jesus and the other NT writers. No, they push the date back so the events of AD70 can be written from the perpective of history not fulfilled prophecy.
See what I mean about people not understanding preterism and doing their homework.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Total error here. Preterism assigns an early date, ascribes to it to prove themselves correct. I'm correct, and it is a given they do this.
Who said this thread is all about kyredneck? You? Presuppose much? And you accuse me of not being studious? This is a thread against "this is it" and to whomever the shoe doth fit.
I have very little respect for you and the way you've approached me with this caustic condescending attitude and as if no one but you, and those who agree with you, actually studies. Take your personal innuendos and subjective baseless conclusions and come up with facts, not presuppositions, then I may lend you a listening ear. And pay attention, you may learn something here.
Pretersists do teach the above. You are incorrect again. Their names don't have to be "kyredneck" for it to be true. Get it?
Incorrect once again. This interpretation became more popular from within the church to answer these critics, or, higher-criticism and liberal theology, and/or those from within the church that attacked the Scriptures. More specifically the teaching by Jesus of His coming & c in that to them They taught Jesus was a false prophet, and then went onto the historical Jesus, we can't know Jesus, he never existed and a slough of other false teachings. Preterism was popularized to answer them. Listen to Sproul, and other teachers speak of this well known truth and answer against higher-criticism/liberal theology, and against those such as Bertrand Russell, who attacked from outside the church. So yes, I am correct that preterist teaching sought to suffice this. Actually know what you're talking about, yes?
For someone who comes along saying we don't do our homework, you, my friend are totally wrong here and in error. Nothing that I've said above is wrong but is known fact.
You need to go do your homework friend.
And I wonder who checked up above in the poll, this is it, it is all over? Hmmm.
- Peace
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...aw shucks Grasshoppah, why'd you have and go and tell him for? Anyway, you see how much good it did, in one ear and out the other.
He wouldn't know the difference between a dragon and a spotted newt. He doesn't care about the difference between a dragon and a spotted newt. Any 'spiritual rendering', anything other than the literal letter, is 'embarrassing' and 'anemic' to him:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1697884&highlight=embarrassing#post1697884
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1702320&highlight=anemic#post1702320
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1707117&highlight=anemic#post1707117
I guess that includes amils, postmils, PPs, FPs, idealists, or any take other than the literal interpretation by the letter.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
.....This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24:34
....there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16 :28
.....This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13:30
....there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16 :28
.....This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21:32
....there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16 :28
Did Josephus write any of the above?
Did Josephus write any of the below?:
And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3.1-2
From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 4.17
And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2.40
And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mt. 3:10
But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mt 10:23
Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16 :28
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. This saying therefore went forth among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, that he should not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Jn 21:22- 23
For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10:37
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23: 34-36
But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. Mt 26:64
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9:1
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, thoroughly to cleanse his threshing-floor, and to gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire. Lu 3:17
Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come. I Cor 10.11
Let your forbearance be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Phil 4:5
hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2
else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb 9:26
who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake, 1 Pet 1:20
But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer: 1 Pet 4.7
For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Pet 4:17
And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not. 2 Pet 2.3
Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2: 18
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3
I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12
And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20
Compare with:
(26 And the vision of the evenings and mornings which hath been told is true: but shut thou up the vision; for it belongeth to many days to come. Dan 8
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end. Dan 12)
And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 3.1-2
From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 4.17
And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2.40
And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mt. 3:10
But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mt 10:23
Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16 :28
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. This saying therefore went forth among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, that he should not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Jn 21:22- 23
For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10:37
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23: 34-36
But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. Mt 26:64
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9:1
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire: whose fan is in his hand, thoroughly to cleanse his threshing-floor, and to gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire. Lu 3:17
Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come. I Cor 10.11
Let your forbearance be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Phil 4:5
hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2
else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb 9:26
who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake, 1 Pet 1:20
But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer: 1 Pet 4.7
For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Pet 4:17
And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not. 2 Pet 2.3
Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2: 18
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3
I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12
And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20
Compare with:
(26 And the vision of the evenings and mornings which hath been told is true: but shut thou up the vision; for it belongeth to many days to come. Dan 8
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end. Dan 12)
preacher4truth
Active Member
Nope, but he wrote the 70 A.D. records, otherwise you'd have no year.
Spare me. None of this says "70 A.D."now does it? Where did you get that it all happened in 70 A.D., from these verses? Tell me???
And you know as well as I preterists then look at the 70 A.D. account and say "see, proof" from Josephus Flavius himself. Where else did you get 70 A.D? Your Scriptures don't prove this.
You've gotten this "proof" from Josephus' account that it was then and not from Matthew or the Bible. You go to an outside source, then use the Scriptures to back that up, not vice versa.
With no extra-biblical account you would have nothing to prove "it" happened.
Nice try though, but no go. :thumbsup:
Apparently he did. He said this in Josephus 24:1-2
*
1And Josephus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
*2And Josephus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
I am reminded again why I spend less and less time discussing preterism on this board. People who claim to be experts don't know the basic things about it. You spend all your time knocking down straw men then when you ask a simple question you get ignored. Carry on kyredneck.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Tell me where you get 70 A.D. in the Scriptures, where you say you got it from. It's not there. You got it from Josephus account, and/or other extra-biblical records, but definitely not from the Scriptures.
Your strawman is on fire.
- Peace
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Well I see in your above yoou bolded onepart and left out the most important section of the scripture let me help here, "till all these things be accomplished". Mt 24:34
So when did ALL the things Christ spoke of get fulfilled.
For instance this 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come Matthew 24:14
This 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
note it doesn't say the temple will be destroyed, but that the Abomination that maketh desolate will "STAND" in The Holy Place and Daniel said it would be there for 3 1/2 years. If the writtingo f Revelation was in 68 A.D. as some calim the Abomination would have already stood in the temple and if Jude were written at the same time both would have Said as it is standing in the Holy Palce and yet no mention of it.Now give us the evidence that this occured:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. So there has to be history of some type that says the sun and moon were darkened and stars fell from heavn, and that the sign of the Son of Man appeared in heaven and ALL the tribes of the earth mourned. No evidence exist that ALL the tribes ahve worshipped God. When did He gather up ALL His elect from one end of Heaven to the other?
Here we see the verse, 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Now notice verse 33 carefully the generation that shall see ALL these things mentioned from verse 5 to 34 s the generation that will not pass until ALL these things be fulfilled. Since ALL have yet to occur then that generation has yet to come, but it could be our generation or the next.
So please provide proof that all occured and then we will know that 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
That heaven and earth have passed away since all is fulfilled.
The preterist belief doesn't follow scripture, for all this must be literally fulfilled not spiritually or metaphorically, since the temple was literally destroyed these ALL these things must be fulfilled. So this is not it.
What a sad view! Not only do they have virtually no hope for the future, they try to take away the hope of others.
Old Josephus/Flavius is a good source for history, but for doctrine? Good grief!
Please share the actual source for this. Josephus wrote various works, so which of them is this? "Josephus 24:1-2" doesn't cut it. Wars of the Jews? Antiquities?