Is Salvation Conditional?

[humblethinker]

There seem to be several verses that indicate that salvation is conditional but are explained to the contrary by Calvinists. An example of a passage that, at first read, would promote a 'conditional' idea of salvation:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

As I understand it, calvinists explain that the words 'world' and "whoever" are different from what they seem, such that those that "have eternal life" do not have it on the condition that they "believe in him", otherwise it would be conditional.
In a previous thread, a statement was made regarding salvation being unconditional. What I gather from the statement is this: Salvation is given without condition. Jesus will save whomever the Father wills saved.

Are there any verses indicating that salvation is not conditional?

 

[Iconoclast]

There seem to be several verses that indicate that salvation is conditional but are explained to the contrary by Calvinists. An example of a passage that, at first read, would promote a 'conditional' idea of salvation:
As I understand it, calvinists explain that the words 'world' and "whoever" are different from what they seem, such that those that "have eternal life" do not have it on the condition that they "believe in him", otherwise it would be conditional.
In a previous thread, a statement was made regarding salvation being unconditional. What I gather from the statement is this: Salvation is given without condition. Jesus will save whomever the Father wills saved.

Are there any verses indicating that salvation is not conditional?

They are believing and continue to believe...everyone believing

15that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,

16for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

17For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

18he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jn6:37
37all that the Father doth give to me will come unto me; and him who is coming unto me, I may in no wise cast without,

38because I have come down out of the heaven, not that I may do my will, but the will of Him who sent me.

39`And this is the will of the Father who sent me, that all that He hath given to me I may not lose of it, but may raise it up in the last day; 40and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'

27according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,

28and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish -- to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;

29my Father, who hath given to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of the hand of my Father;

6having been confident of this very thing, that He who did begin in you a good work, will perform [it] till a day of Jesus Christ,

 

[TCGreek]

Everyone has to believe in Jesus.

 

[Amy.G]

Yes. You must have faith in order to be saved. God has done all the work, but you must believe Jesus is who He says He is.

 

[humblethinker]

They are believing and continue to believe...everyone believing

Jn6:37
37all that the Father doth give to me will come unto me; and him who is coming unto me, I may in no wise cast without,

38because I have come down out of the heaven, not that I may do my will, but the will of Him who sent me.

39`And this is the will of the Father who sent me, that all that He hath given to me I may not lose of it, but may raise it up in the last day; 40and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'

6having been confident of this very thing, that He who did begin in you a good work, will perform [it] till a day of Jesus Christ,

Jn6:3737all that the Father doth give to me will come unto me;
Yet this is not saying that salvation is not conditional. A reasonable understanding would argue, "Those that the Father gives to Jesus are those that met the condition of belief."

None of the other verses indicate that salvation is necessarily not conditional. If you feel I overlooked one then please explain how that verse is indicating such.

 

[JesusFan]

Jn6:3737all that the Father doth give to me will come unto me;
Yet this is not saying that salvation is not conditional. A reasonable understanding would argue, "Those that the Father gives to Jesus are those that met the condition of belief."

None of the other verses indicate that salvation is necessarily not conditional. If you feel I overlooked one then please explain how that verse is indicating such.

More probably that its because/due to the fact that they ARE the elect by the Father, they are able to meet the requirement of placing their faith in Christ!

Condition is that a sinner whom God has chosen to be found "In Christ"

 

[humblethinker]

More probably that its because/due to the fact that they ARE the elect by the Father, they are able to meet the requirement of placing their faith in Christ!

Condition is that a sinner whom God has chosen to be found "In Christ"

This is part of the problem I'm having. You seem to appeal to an a priori understanding. What you consider a "fact" others might consider part of man's thinking which logically requires it be a 'fact'. None of the other verses indicate that salvation is necessarily not conditional. If you feel I overlooked one then please explain how that verse is indicating such.

 

[jbh28]

Salvation is conditional. - faith and repentance
election is unconditional

 

[preacher4truth]

Seems there is issue here with God saving whomsoever He wills to save. He's Sovereign, He made the rules, all that are His will come to Him. None saved are non elect.

It's all for and according to His purpose.

 

[JesusFan]

This is part of the problem I'm having. You seem to appeal to an a priori understanding. What you consider a "fact" others might consider part of man's thinking which logically requires it be a 'fact'. None of the other verses indicate that salvation is necessarily not conditional. If you feel I overlooked one then please explain how that verse is indicating such.

ALL those that the father chooses to give unto Jesus shall become eternally saved and secured...

HAS to be a basis for Him choosing them, what do you say that it is?

 

[glfredrick]

More probably that its because/due to the fact that they ARE the elect by the Father, they are able to meet the requirement of placing their faith in Christ!

Condition is that a sinner whom God has chosen to be found "In Christ"

This would be the more accurate way of seeing the the conditions of salvation.

The first condition is to be among the elect. Seeing as how no human knows who are the elect, we preach the gospel to all, pray for all, see Christ's work for all, etc., but realize that only those foreordained by God will actually, eventually come to salvation.

The second condition is the atoning work of Christ. Without His ACTUAL life, death, burial, and resurrection, there is no hope at all. Those who make Christ's work nothing more (even if on a very reverent basis) than example are hopeless and doomed.

The third condition is that those who are elect hear the effectual call, respond in faith and repentance, then persevere in their faith until the end. God gifts those who are among the elect with the ability and spiritual power/position so to do by His justification, adoption, and sealing.

So, yes, there are conditions or else salvation would be universal and the entire idea of sharing the gospel would be a moot point, an activity of religious zeal, perhaps, but of no real significance in the actual affairs of God's redemption of lost humanity.

 

[JesusFan]

This would be the more accurate way of seeing the the conditions of salvation.

The first condition is to be among the elect. Seeing as how no human knows who are the elect, we preach the gospel to all, pray for all, see Christ's work for all, etc., but realize that only those foreordained by God will actually, eventually come to salvation.

The second condition is the atoning work of Christ. Without His ACTUAL life, death, burial, and resurrection, there is no hope at all. Those who make Christ's work nothing more (even if on a very reverent basis) than example are hopeless and doomed.

The third condition is that those who are elect hear the effectual call, respond in faith and repentance, then persevere in their faith until the end. God gifts those who are among the elect with the ability and spiritual power/position so to do by His justification, adoption, and sealing.

So, yes, there are conditions or else salvation would be universal and the entire idea of sharing the gospel would be a moot point, an activity of religious zeal, perhaps, but of no real significance in the actual affairs of God's redemption of lost humanity.

Seems that it keeps coming back to the BASIS of our salvation...

Is it based FULLY upon the Good pleasure/Will of the Heavenly Father...

Or some degree also based upon us?

 

[humblethinker]

This would be the more accurate way of seeing the the conditions of salvation.

The first condition is to be among the elect. Seeing as how no human knows who are the elect, we preach the gospel to all, pray for all, see Christ's work for all, etc., but realize that only those foreordained by God will actually, eventually come to salvation.

The second condition is the atoning work of Christ. Without His ACTUAL life, death, burial, and resurrection, there is no hope at all. Those who make Christ's work nothing more (even if on a very reverent basis) than example are hopeless and doomed.

The third condition is that those who are elect hear the effectual call, respond in faith and repentance, then persevere in their faith until the end. God gifts those who are among the elect with the ability and spiritual power/position so to do by His justification, adoption, and sealing.

So, yes, there are conditions or else salvation would be universal and the entire idea of sharing the gospel would be a moot point, an activity of religious zeal, perhaps, but of no real significance in the actual affairs of God's redemption of lost humanity.

OK, I understand you to be answering JF and the OP here. I think I see your point but it wasn't one in which I intended for the OP. I don't think we would disagree that even existence, as well as salvation is conditional upon God. I was referring to salvation being conditional upon man, hence the example given in the OP (re John 3:16)

None of the other verses (that were given above) indicate that salvation is necessarily not conditional. If you feel I overlooked one then please explain how that verse is indicating such.
So, in light of my intent for the OP as stated above, are there any verses indicating that salvation is not conditional?

 

[humblethinker]

Seems that it keeps coming back to the BASIS of our salvation...

Is it based FULLY upon the Good pleasure/Will of the Heavenly Father...

Or some degree also based upon us?

It seems to me that it keeps coming back to an appeal to an a priori understanding (see my post#7 in this thread). Therefore my request any verses indicating that salvation is not conditional.

 

[glfredrick]

OK, I understand you to be answering JF and the OP here. I think I see your point but it wasn't one in which I intended for the OP. I don't think we would disagree that even existence, as well as salvation is conditional upon God. I was referring to salvation being conditional upon man, hence the example given in the OP (re John 3:16)

None of the other verses (that were given above) indicate that salvation is necessarily not conditional. If you feel I overlooked one then please explain how that verse is indicating such.
So, in light of my intent for the OP as stated above, are there any verses indicating that salvation is not conditional?

If one reads all of John 3, one will realize that even 3:16 doesn't place conditions on a man, but rather on God. Jesus explains salvation and the Holy Spirit then castigates a "teacher" of the law in Jerusalem for not understanding that the human component is not the issue ("How can one be born again?"). Further, right after the pronouncement in 3:16, Christ explains that He has not come to condemn the world, but that some might be saved by Him. The entire affair is Jesus correcting the teaching of a man of Israel who mistakenly thought that BY HIS ACTIONS one could be reconciled with God.

If salvation is conditional upon any of us, none of us has any hope at all, for we can neither access God unless He grants us that right via grace, nor can we atone for any of our separating sin, either by keeping the law, believing, etc. All hinges on whether or not God does what only God can do, hence my answer.

 

[AresMan]

Yes. You must have faith in order to be saved. God has done all the work, but you must believe Jesus is who He says He is.

...which is included in "all the work" that God has done.

 

[JesusFan]

If one reads all of John 3, one will realize that even 3:16 doesn't place conditions on a man, but rather on God. Jesus explains salvation and the Holy Spirit then castigates a "teacher" of the law in Jerusalem for not understanding that the human component is not the issue ("How can one be born again?"). Further, right after the pronouncement in 3:16, Christ explains that He has not come to condemn the world, but that some might be saved by Him. The entire affair is Jesus correcting the teaching of a man of Israel who mistakenly thought that BY HIS ACTIONS one could be reconciled with God.

If salvation is conditional upon any of us, none of us has any hope at all, for we can neither access God unless He grants us that right via grace, nor can we atone for any of our separating sin, either by keeping the law, believing, etc. All hinges on whether or not God does what only God can do, hence my answer.

Some here do not see just how spiritually wreaked by fall of Adam, as we are all seen by God as being in Adam...

IF spiritually dead, how can a spiritual corpse respond by faith in even the Gospel message?

 

[Amy.G]

...which is included in "all the work" that God has done.

Faith is not a work.

 

[glfredrick]

Faith is not a work.

You are correct. It is a gift from God.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:7-8 (NASB)

Young's Literal Translation (so literal it hurts to read in English) says it this way:

8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift,
Eph 2:8 (YLT)

Of course, that is probably not what you mean, Amy. I expect that you mean that our faith is, well, ours -- something we drum up inside ourselves by our own effort. I know that a lot of people hold that perspective because the Bible tells us to, in effect, "exercise" our faith, but that is akin to the way it tells us to "exercise" (use) all the gifts of God, not that we somehow originate our own faith.

 

[Amy.G]

You are correct. It is a gift from God.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:7-8 (NASB)

Young's Literal Translation (so literal it hurts to read in English) says it this way:

8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift,
Eph 2:8 (YLT)

Of course, that is probably not what you mean, Amy. I expect that you mean that our faith is, well, ours -- something we drum up inside ourselves by our own effort. I know that a lot of people hold that perspective because the Bible tells us to, in effect, "exercise" our faith, but that is akin to the way it tells us to "exercise" (use) all the gifts of God, not that we somehow originate our own faith.

I'll tell you what I mean.

Yes, it is our faith. If I give you a gift, it is yours to keep. But God has given every person a measure of faith to be exercised in obedience to the gospel. Just as God has given every man a conscience and the law written on our hearts, He has given each enough faith to believe. So our faith was a gift from God in that respect.