Daniel 9:24-27

[Fred's Wife]

With whom did God make the New Covenant according to Jeremiah 3131-34?

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with

the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The New Covenant is God's promise to give free blessing to men through Jesus Christ. It was given to the nation Israel (Jeremiah 31:1-34), but Christians also share in the spiritual aspects of the New covenant through Christ (Hebrews 8:7-13).

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The 1,000 year reign of Christ does NOT take a "time-out". After God's purposes for the church age (dispensation of grace) are fulfilled, Jesus Christ will return from Heaven and establish His throne on earth and the promises of the New Covenant concerning the nation Israel will be literally fulfilled (Matthew 25:31; Romans 11:25-27).

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

With whom did God make the New Covenant according to Jeremiah 3131-34?

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with

the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The New Covenant is God's promise to give free blessing to men through Jesus Christ. It was given to the nation Israel (Jeremiah 31:1-34), but Christians also share in the spiritual aspects of the New covenant through Christ (Hebrews 8:7-13).

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The 1,000 year reign of Christ does NOT take a "time-out". After God's purposes for the church age (dispensation of grace) are fulfilled, Jesus Christ will return from Heaven and establish His throne on earth and the promises of the New Covenant concerning the nation Israel will be literally fulfilled (Matthew 25:31; Romans 11:25-27).

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

I agree with all of these passages. Now, let's see how Scripture defines Israel in relation to the promises:
Also, please define "all Israel" in your Romans 11:26 reference. Every Jew from Abraham till the end of time or something else? Please be specific.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Rom 9:6-8)
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. (Rom 9:30-31)

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! (Rom 11:30-33)
Israel has obtained the same mercy as Gentiles under the New Covenant. The time of the Gentiles is fully come in.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1Co 12:13)
Israel cannot be separated from the Body of Christ as though they are still under the Old Law. They are fully within the age of Grace; same as the Gentiles.

 

[JesusFan]

I agree with all of these passages. Now, let's see how Scripture defines Israel in relation to the promises:
Also, please define "all Israel" in your Romans 11:26 reference. Every Jew from Abraham till the end of time or something else? Please be specific.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Rom 9:6-8)
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. (Rom 9:30-31)

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! (Rom 11:30-33)
Israel has obtained the same mercy as Gentiles under the New Covenant. The time of the Gentiles is fully come in.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1Co 12:13)
Israel cannot be separated from the Body of Christ as though they are still under the Old Law. They are fully within the age of Grace; same as the Gentiles.

All jews who come to God will come through Messiah jesus during this time...

God though still has promises to be fulfilled to Jewish peoples, that will be in reign of messiah on earth..

So present Church age will have jews/gentiles saved by same Messiah, than when God done with Church age, will go back to isreal as a nation in Millenium...

 

[michael-acts17:11]

All jews who come to God will come through Messiah jesus during this time...

God though still has promises to be fulfilled to Jewish peoples, that will be in reign of messiah on earth..

So present Church age will have jews/gentiles saved by same Messiah, than when God done with Church age, will go back to isreal as a nation in Millenium...

Did you miss where God says "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." To whom does God have unfulfilled promises & what exactly are those promises? Let me give you a little context for the Romans 9:6-8 passage:

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Rom 9:4-5)

Verses 6-8 then define who Israel, the receiver of the promises, truly is. This is very clearly written Scripture; nothing added & nothing removed.

ALL of the promises made to Abraham are fulfilled through Christ. Remember who God defines as Abraham's seed:
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:16)

It doesn't get any clearer than this:
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:23-29)

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth....
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Heb 11:13-40)

ALL of the promises to Abraham(Israel) are fulfilled in Christ. Why is this Biblical truth so hard to accept? Why do so many reject the clear teaching of Scripture for a man-made doctrine that requires vast spaces of time be eisegeted into Scripture for it to work?

 

[JesusFan]

Did you miss where God says "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." To whom does God have unfulfilled promises & what exactly are those promises? Let me give you a little context for the Romans 9:6-8 passage:

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Rom 9:4-5)

Verses 6-8 then define who Israel, the receiver of the promises, truly is. This is very clearly written Scripture; nothing added & nothing removed.

ALL of the promises made to Abraham are fulfilled through Christ. Remember who God defines as Abraham's seed:
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:16)

It doesn't get any clearer than this:
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:23-29)

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth....
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Heb 11:13-40)

ALL of the promises to Abraham(Israel) are fulfilled in Christ. Why is this Biblical truth so hard to accept? Why do so many reject the clear teaching of Scripture for a man-made doctrine that requires vast spaces of time be eisegeted into Scripture for it to work?

maybe because its the biblical truth?
As what you postualate seems reasonable BUT there is no proof that God will NOT one day go back to national Isreal, as the Church is NOT Isreal, nor supplanting/replacing her in plans of God!

Acts quite clear that God planned all along for jews to reject messiah and His kingdom offereed to them at time of Christ, post poned and moved into Age of Church..

Once the fulness of gentiles come in, than God will "reset' His dealings with jewish peoples alive when jesus returns to earth... ALL isreal alive at thast time will get saved into Kingdom jesus will set up at that time on earth!

 

[Fred's Wife]

I agree with all of these passages. Now, let's see how Scripture defines Israel in relation to the promises:
Also, please define "all Israel" in your Romans 11:26 reference. Every Jew from Abraham till the end of time or something else? Please be specific.

"all Israel" is speaking of Israel as a nation, not each and every individual Jew from Abraham till the end of time. According to Zechariah 13:8-9 2/3 of the nation of Israel will be cut off...the remaining 1/3, or remant will be that part that is "saved".

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Rom 9:6-8)

They are not all Israel which are of (out of) Israel. They are not all Israel who are (descended) from Israel. Just because you have come out of Israel (that is, you are a descendant of Jacob) does not make you a true Israelite. Just because you are a Jew does not make you a true Jew. Just because you are a Jew outwardly does not make you a Jew inwardly. Just because you have been circumcised outwardly does not mean that you have been circumcised in the heart (Romans 2:28-29).

You can descend from someone very important and yet not be blessed by God and not be a recipient of God’s promises. Isaac was not the only son of Abraham. Ishmael was the first son born to Abraham and Isaac was born years later. Abraham had two children (two who were of the seed of Abraham). Physically they were both Abraham’s children, but in the spiritual realm God chose only one of those sons to be the one who would receive the blessings and the promises (Genesis 17:19-21; 21:12).

The Jews thought that all who came out of Abraham were blessed and recipients of the promises. They mistakenly thought that all who descended from Israel were (true) Israel. They failed to realize that a true Jew must have four FATHERS--Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and GOD! A person becomes properly related to God only by personal faith!

Ishmael was a child of the flesh; Isaac was the child of promise (Galatians 4:22-23,28). The birth of Ishmael was natural (Genesis 16). It was a fleshly attempt to try to help God keep His promise. The result was Ishmael, the child of the flesh. The birth of Isaac was supernatural (Genesis 18:14). It was a miraculous birth--God did it. Abraham had two sons but only one of these sons partook of the covenant promises and became part of the chosen line which would blossom into a great nation and out of whom the Messiah would come.

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. (Rom 9:30-31)

The Gentiles were not chasing after God’s righteousness but they ended up getting it by simply putting their trust in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22-24; 4:5; 5:1). The Jews chased after the law of righteousness and tried diligently to keep the law, but they never obtained God’s righteousness because God’s righteousness is not obtained by the works of the law (Romans 3:20; 10:3-4; Galatians 2:16). In order to attain and to obtain righteousness by the law a person would have to keep the law perfectly every moment of his life. NOBODY (Jew or Gentile) has ever done this nor could ever do this (Galatians 3:10-11). The Gentiles were not chasing after God’s righteousness but they heard the gospel, trusted Christ and were freely and fully justified. However, the Jews were chasing after God’s righteousness but were trying to get it the wrong way, depending on SELF rather than on the SAVIOUR (Romans 10:3). They did not attain or reach the righteousness which they looked for and so desperately needed, but the Gentiles, who were not looking for God's righteousness, found it.

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! (Rom 11:30-33)

Through Israel’s unbelief Gentiles now receive mercy (Romans 11:30); through God’s mercy shown to the Gentiles Israel shall someday obtain mercy (Romans 11:31). God’s mercy is poured out upon those who deserve only His wrath (Romans 11:32). There is much about God and about God’s ways that we do not understand, yet we know with full confidence that God does only what is perfectly wise and best. (Romans 11:33)

Israel has obtained the same mercy as Gentiles under the New Covenant. The time of the Gentiles is fully come in.

At this present time, only those "individuals" (both Jew and Gentile) who have obtained God's mercy are those who have trusted in the finished work of Christ on Calvary's cross.

There is a difference between the "times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24) and the "fulness of the Gentiles" (Romans 11:25).

THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES involves the relationship of the Gentiles to the church during this present age. God is adding to His Church daily such as should be saved (Acts 2:47), and primarily (but not exclusively) it is Gentiles who are being added to this body. When the full number of Gentiles comes in, then the rapture of the church will take place (the body of Christ will be complete).

THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES involves the relationship of the Gentiles to the nation Israel. As it says in Luke 21:24--"Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

"The Times of the Gentiles is that long period beginning with the Babylonian captivity of Judah, under Nebuchadnezzar, and to be brought to an end by the destruction of Gentile world-power by the ‘stone cut out without hands’ (Daniel 2:34,35,44), i.e. the coming of the Lord in glory (Revelation 19:11,21), until which time Jerusalem is politically subject to Gentile rule (Luke 21:24)." (Scofield)

We are presently in the "times of the Gentiles"..the nation of Israel remains under the control of the nations of the world (Gentiles). The "times of the Gentiles" will be fulfilled at the Second Coming of Christ to set up His Kingdom in Jerusalem and reign there for 1,000 years.

The "fulness of the Gentiles" has not been attained, but that is imminent.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1Co 12:13)

Amen. But the Body of Christ/the Church is not Israel.

Israel cannot be separated from the Body of Christ as though they are still under the Old Law. They are fully within the age of Grace; same as the Gentiles.

Israel is separated from the Body of Christ. The nation of Israel is back in their land in UNBELIEF. Individual Jews are being saved and made members of the Body of Christ/the Church, but the nation of Israel as a whole is not the Church and never has been. Everybody is within the age of grace, but not all are saved and members of the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ and the nation of Israel are two distinct groups of people.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

maybe because its the biblical truth?
As what you postualate seems reasonable BUT there is no proof that God will NOT one day go back to national Isreal, as the Church is NOT Isreal, nor supplanting/replacing her in plans of God!

Acts quite clear that God planned all along for jews to reject messiah and His kingdom offereed to them at time of Christ, post poned and moved into Age of Church..

Once the fulness of gentiles come in, than God will "reset' His dealings with jewish peoples alive when jesus returns to earth... ALL isreal alive at thast time will get saved into Kingdom jesus will set up at that time on earth!

How can something be Biblical that is no clearly written in the Bible? That makes no sense at all. You are speaking in general terms without any Biblical support. How does it work that the New & everlasting Covenant will be set aside in lieu of a return to the Old Law? The fullness of the Gentiles came in with the New Covenant. Fullness does not mean to be filled over a LONG, LONG period of time. Look up every other mention of this word in the NT for its meaning. Are you saying that God will force every Jew to believe in him at some future point in time? Scripture says that the spiritual seed of Abraham will receive the promises. It NEVER says that every physical descendant of Abraham will believe in Christ as the Messiah. God's Word makes a very clear distinction between the physical & spiritual seed of Abraham.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Fred's Wife,

Of course the nation of Israel is separate from the Body of Christ. ALL nations are separate. The Body is a spiritual entity made up of all believers of all nations who believe. Every individual Jew is under the age of God's Grace through the New Covenant. Scripture plainly states that the promises made to Abraham are fulfilled in believers in the present day through the person of Jesus Christ. Did He lie when He said they are all fulfilled through Christ? If God still owe's anything to the nation of Israel apart from the New Covenant, then they must be fulfilled apart from Christ. Every Jew who believes is heir to the kingdom through the one true Messiah. How does being a nation for 1,000yrs contribute anything to the Covenant of Grace?

 

[Fred's Wife]

Fred's Wife,

Of course the nation of Israel is separate from the Body of Christ. ALL nations are separate. The Body is a spiritual entity made up of all believers of all nations who believe.

I agree

Every individual Jew is under the age of God's Grace through the New Covenant.

Are you speaking of "saving grace"?

Scripture plainly states that the promises made to Abraham are fulfilled in believers in the present day through the person of Jesus Christ.

The book of Hebrews refers to the New Covenant to show that the Mosaic system was only temporary and that even the Old Testament promised that one day it would be abolished and replaced by another covenant. Hebrews also states that every New Testament believer partakes of the spiritual blessings of the New Covenant through Christ, but nowhere does Scripture state that this covenant has been transferred from national Israel to the church.

Did He lie when He said they are all fulfilled through Christ?

The New Covenant is not fulfilled in the Church. Christ will fulfill the New Covenant at His Second Coming.

If God still owe's anything to the nation of Israel apart from the New Covenant, then they must be fulfilled apart from Christ.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this?

Every Jew who believes is heir to the kingdom through the one true Messiah

.
Every Jew who believes becomes a member of the Body of Christ/the Church.

How does being a nation for 1,000yrs contribute anything to the Covenant of Grace?

Israel will never cease being a nation. In addition, as part of the fulfillment of the New Covenant, the nation of Israel will receive the land which God promised to Abraham (Genesis 15) where Christ will be seated on David's throne in Jerusalem for 1,000 years. (2 Samuel 7:12-17)

 

[michael-acts17:11]

The book of Hebrews refers to the New Covenant to show that the Mosaic system was only temporary and that even the Old Testament promised that one day it would be abolished and replaced by another covenant. Hebrews also states that every New Testament believer partakes of the spiritual blessings of the New Covenant through Christ, but nowhere does Scripture state that this covenant has been transferred from national Israel to the church.

The New Covenant is not fulfilled in the Church. Christ will fulfill the New Covenant at His Second Coming.

In addition, as part of the fulfillment of the New Covenant, the nation of Israel will receive the land which God promised to Abraham (Genesis 15) where Christ will be seated on David's throne in Jerusalem for 1,000 years. (2 Samuel 7:12-17)

The Old Covenant is fulfilled & no longer exists. Hebrews 8
Where does it say that the New Covenant will not be fulfilled till His Second Coming? Christ fulfilled it with His own blood. We are in a completed covenant relationship with the Father. The New Covenant lacks nothing.
Where does Scripture state that the physical nation of Israel will receive land as a part of the New Covenant. That makes no sense. Believing Jews are eternal heirs to the universe. Why would they need a tiny piece of land for a short period of time? The New Covenant only guarantees us eternal life, not a temporal reign. Besides, all believers are equal heirs with Christ. The physical seed of Abraham have no unfulfilled promises. Jesus is the seed of David who rules for eternity at the right hand of God.

The gentiles obtained this "fullness" (covenantal inheritance, salvation, and blessing) during Paul's ministry. In fact, Paul's entire ministry goal was to deliver this inheritance to the gentile populations (Acts 26:16-23; 20:32; 13:47; Rom 15:16,29; Eph 3:1-10; Rom 11:13; 2 Tim 1:11). Paul accomplished this mystery of God for the gentiles to become co-heirs with the Jews in Christ's New Covenant riches by the end of his lifetime (compare Acts 13:47/26:16-23/Eph 3:1-10 to 2 Tim 4:7,17). The Church is not still waiting for the gentiles to be offered up and approved by God (Rom 15:16) that they might obtain the fullness of inheritance and riches in Christ. The fullness of the gentiles came in no later than the completion of Paul's ministry.

 

[freeatlast]

The Old Covenant is fulfilled & no longer exists. Hebrews 8
Where does it say that the New Covenant will not be fulfilled till His Second Coming? Christ fulfilled it with His own blood. We are in a completed covenant relationship with the Father. The New Covenant lacks nothing.
Where does Scripture state that the physical nation of Israel will receive land as a part of the New Covenant. That makes no sense. Believing Jews are eternal heirs to the universe. Why would they need a tiny piece of land for a short period of time? The New Covenant only guarantees us eternal life, not a temporal reign. Besides, all believers are equal heirs with Christ. The physical seed of Abraham have no unfulfilled promises. Jesus is the seed of David who rules for eternity at the right hand of God.

The gentiles obtained this "fullness" (covenantal inheritance, salvation, and blessing) during Paul's ministry. In fact, Paul's entire ministry goal was to deliver this inheritance to the gentile populations (Acts 26:16-23; 20:32; 13:47; Rom 15:16,29; Eph 3:1-10; Rom 11:13; 2 Tim 1:11). Paul accomplished this mystery of God for the gentiles to become co-heirs with the Jews in Christ's New Covenant riches by the end of his lifetime (compare Acts 13:47/26:16-23/Eph 3:1-10 to 2 Tim 4:7,17). The Church is not still waiting for the gentiles to be offered up and approved by God (Rom 15:16) that they might obtain the fullness of inheritance and riches in Christ. The fullness of the gentiles came in no later than the completion of Paul's ministry.

Well if the OT is fulfilled then Christ cannot return as He is suppose to set on the throne of David. The promises to Abraham cannot be fulfilled if the OT is fulfilled, Israel will never again come together as in the valley of dry bones, the prophesy in Joel cannot be fulfilled as stated and on and on. No the OT is not fulfilled and neither is the NT. Christ has not retuned, the church has not been ushered into heaven, the dead have not been raised, and on and on again.

 

[Fred's Wife]

Well if the OT is fulfilled then Christ cannot return as He is suppose to set on the throne of David. The promises to Abraham cannot be fulfilled if the OT is fulfilled, Israel will never again come together as in the valley of dry bones, the prophesy in Joel cannot be fulfilled as stated and on and on. No the OT is not fulfilled and neither is the NT. Christ has not retuned, the church has not been ushered into heaven, the dead have not been raised, and on and on again.

Exactly! Amen! :thumbs::thumbs:

 

[michael-acts17:11]

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)

 

[freeatlast]

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)

You have to keep that passage in the context that it was given as a passage cannot mean everything. The letter to the Hebrews is speaking to Jews who are clinging to the law. The passage is trying to show that the OT has passed in regards to law. It is not suggesting that the OT prophesies are finished. There are a many a things in the OT to still be fulfilled.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

You have to keep that passage in the context that it was given as a passage cannot mean everything. The letter to the Hebrews is speaking to Jews who are clinging to the law. The passage is trying to show that the OT has passed in regards to law. It is not suggesting that the OT prophesies are finished. There are a many a things in the OT to still be fulfilled.

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. (Rom 4:13-17)

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Rom 9:6-8)

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Gal 3:24-29)

 

[beameup]

Romans 2:12-15
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or
else excusing one another

Nevertheless, God has made commitments to Israel and they will come to pass.
The Devil, of course, will be very active in preventing this during the Tribulation
as the Devil wants to prove God a liar and promise breaker.

 

[lastday]

Connect Dan.9:27 with Dan.12:11

Friends,
I have wondered if any of you have related the fulfillment of
Dan.9:27 with Dan.12:11 as referring to the final 3.5 years
that cannot be realized until the "abomination sits in the
temple proclaiming that he is god"!

A convincing case can be made that the "greatest time
of tribulation known to history or prophecy" has not yet
occurred. That "case" demands that the destruction of the
Temple in AD 70 was not the immediate prelude to the "end
of time" nor to the "end of the age".
Mel at www.lastday.net

 

[JesusFan]

Friends,
I have wondered if any of you have related the fulfillment of
Dan.9:27 with Dan.12:11 as referring to the final 3.5 years
that cannot be realized until the "abomination sits in the
temple proclaiming that he is god"!

A convincing case can be made that the "greatest time
of tribulation known to history or prophecy" has not yet
occurred. That "case" demands that the destruction of the
Temple in AD 70 was not the immediate prelude to the "end
of time" nor to the "end of the age".
Mel at www.lastday.net

My take on this is that a lot of what the full/partial Pretierist see as being fulfilled already from Bible were all just "partial" fulfillments of prophecy, as "types" of the larger still to come!

 

[beameup]

My take on this is that a lot of what the full/partial Pretierist see as being fulfilled already from Bible were all just "partial" fulfillments of prophecy, as "types" of the larger still to come!

Actually, the "Abomination of Desolation" was already fulfilled partially (in "type") in 167BC when Antiochus Epiphanes set-up an image of Zeus in the Holy of Holies.
This was fresh in the minds of the JEWISH disciples when Jesus briefed them in Matthew ch. 24.

 

[JesusFan]

Actually, the "Abomination of Desolation" was already fulfilled partially (in "type") in 167BC when Antiochus Epiphanes set-up an image of Zeus in the Holy of Holies.
This was fresh in the minds of the JEWISH disciples when Jesus briefed them in Matthew ch. 24.

Yes, kind of the ultimate desolation to come, just as say nero caesar could beseen as a kind/type in a smaller way of the final AntiChrist to come!