Gospel for Asia

[milby]

I just received a free book called "Revolution in World Missions" from Gospel For Asia.

I had just read David Platts "Radical" and now this.

I am thinking about committing to sponsor a missionary through this organization but I want to make sure that it is legitimate. Anyone here know anything about them?

 

[mandym]

They are legitimate

 

[dblee32]

I don't know for sure. I receive literature from them occasionally, and they appear legit to me. Just follow what the Holy Spirit leads you to do, and you can't go wrong!

 

[TheBibleSender]

I used to support a missionary from them Harkhil Marak. I still remember his name even though its been years. As to if you should support them that up to you. I stopped just because to my knowledge they would send out missionaries no matter what they believed. Not salvation wise but charismatic etc. I do thank the Lord for their ministry. It was that book you hold in your hand that God used to convict me and my wife and I started by bibles and sending them to people. Then in 2003 God allowed me to start Bible Senders. This year we were able to break the 20,000 bible mark. So again whether you decide to or not I would definitely pass the book along. You never know what God could do with it. God bless.

 

[John of Japan]

I just received a free book called "Revolution in World Missions" from Gospel For Asia.

I had just read David Platts "Radical" and now this.

I am thinking about committing to sponsor a missionary through this organization but I want to make sure that it is legitimate. Anyone here know anything about them?

I'm sure these people are honest and are doing their best to win the world to Christ. However, I have serious reservations about this methodology. It goes against everything I believe about the indigenous policy.

Here's the problem. The Biblical method, I believe, is for missionaries to be supported from their own culture, whether they are home missionaries or cross cultural missionaries. When foreign money comes into a culture to support those indigenous missionaries from outside, there are the following dangers: (1) The missionary will become an elite, with more money than the average national. (2) The missionary and his church will become dependent on the foreign money, and not be able to operate when and if the money dries up. (3) The believers in the church being planted will not take financial responsibility for their own church. (4) The national churches will not take responsibility for supporting their own missionary because foreign money is doing that. (5) Resentment will build among the nationals because their missionary is getting this foreign money.

I've preached in a 3rd world country ("closed" to Western missionaries) and seen at work what I believe to be the Biblical way. An American missionary, supported by American churches, came to Japan and won a doctor to Christ. The Japanese doctor felt called to the third world country, and went there supported by Japanese churches. The doctor planted a church in the third world country, and this church has numerous branch works in the area and is preparing sending national missionaries into the surrounding areas. These indigenous missionaries do not have foreign money but are forced to live on the level of the people they are ministering to. I was at a baptismal service where 46 were baptized. The method is working!

 

[milby]

I'm sure these people are honest and are doing their best to win the world to Christ. However, I have serious reservations about this methodology. It goes against everything I believe about the indigenous policy.

Here's the problem. The Biblical method, I believe, is for missionaries to be supported from their own culture, whether they are home missionaries or cross cultural missionaries. When foreign money comes into a culture to support those indigenous missionaries from outside, there are the following dangers: (1) The missionary will become an elite, with more money than the average national. (2) The missionary and his church will become dependent on the foreign money, and not be able to operate when and if the money dries up. (3) The believers in the church being planted will not take financial responsibility for their own church. (4) The national churches will not take responsibility for supporting their own missionary because foreign money is doing that. (5) Resentment will build among the nationals because their missionary is getting this foreign money.

I've preached in a 3rd world country ("closed" to Western missionaries) and seen at work what I believe to be the Biblical way. An American missionary, supported by American churches, came to Japan and won a doctor to Christ. The Japanese doctor felt called to the third world country, and went there supported by Japanese churches. The doctor planted a church in the third world country, and this church has numerous branch works in the area and is preparing sending national missionaries into the surrounding areas. These indigenous missionaries do not have foreign money but are forced to live on the level of the people they are ministering to. I was at a baptismal service where 46 were baptized. The method is working!

I appreciate your views but after researching Gospel for Asia now for several days, I believe you are way off on this one. You should read K.P. Yhannan's book "Revolution in World Missions" and then I think your thinking on this subject will change.

These missionaries are takeing the Gospel to the world where the name of Jesus has not been heard ONE time.

I was going to respond to all five of your points but I don't have time right now.

I think if you read the above mentioned book, and go to Youtube and listen to some of K.P. Yohannan's sermons you will change your mind.

 

[John of Japan]

I appreciate your views but after researching Gospel for Asia now for several days, I believe you are way off on this one. You should read K.P. Yhannan's book "Revolution in World Missions" and then I think your thinking on this subject will change.

How strange. You ask for comments and then tell me I'm "way off" when I comment.

Actually, I believe I'm more qualified to comment on this than anyone else on the BB, having been a missionary to a Gospel-resistant country here in the 10/40 window since 1981, and having preached in the area this mission effort is trying to reach.

These missionaries are takeing the Gospel to the world where the name of Jesus has not been heard ONE time.

Yes, so am I. Are you aware that the Japanese are less than 1% Christian, only 0.5% evangelical? In fact probably all of the countries this mission effort is trying to reach have a much higher percentage of Christians than where I am: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc.

I was going to respond to all five of your points but I don't have time right now.

I think if you read the above mentioned book, and go to Youtube and listen to some of K.P. Yohannan's sermons you will change your mind.

I'd be happy to discuss my points with you, but I won't debate them here. Please bear in mind that this is a fellowship forum, not a debate forum.

I've known about this "indigenous" missionary philosophy for many years. It was first tried by Karl Gutzlaff (1803-1851), a pioneer missionary who went first to Thailand, then to China, and also tried to reach Korea and Japan. He started a work similar to what you are touting in 1840, and trained 50 Chinese men. He then solicited support for these men in England. Unfortuantely, the glowing reports sent back by most of these indigenous missionaries were false, and Gutzlaff's work went down in disgrace.

Gutzlaff was sincere, loved the Lord and did much good. So probably the leaders of Gospel for Asia are the same. But their method deserves close scrutiny before you support it.

P. S. The figure of "over $75,000 a year for a foreign missionary" given on the GFA website is very inaccurate. Here we are in the most expensive country in Asia, and we don't need anywhwere near that amount.

 

[dblee32]

Again I reiterate, just follow the burden the Lord gives you. There's no need to concern yourself with methodology. God is not limited to any particular method.He will work as He chooses, even if certain individuals or groups of individuals don't agree or approve. Follow God. HE is the one who is more qualified than anyone on the BB to speak on this matter.

 

[John of Japan]

Again I reiterate, just follow the burden the Lord gives you. There's no need to concern yourself with methodology. God is not limited to any particular method.He will work as He chooses, even if certain individuals or groups of individuals don't agree or approve.

So then do you not believe that God can use other people to lead us in His will? After all, God used Elijah to call Elisha.

And by the way, I believe that yes, God is concerned about methodology. I'll not debate you on it since this is a fellowship thread, but if God is not concerned about methodology He wouldn't have killed Dathan and Abiram.

Follow God. HE is the one who is more qualified than anyone on the BB to speak on this matter.

Your implication then is that I am going against God's will in posting here on the BB from my knowledge of the Word of God and the subject at hand. Sorry, but I believe the Holy Spirit led me to post here, on this thread, about this subject.

 

[milby]

How strange. You ask for comments and then tell me I'm "way off" when I comment.

Actually, I believe I'm more qualified to comment on this than anyone else on the BB, having been a missionary to a Gospel-resistant country here in the 10/40 window since 1981, and having preached in the area this mission effort is trying to reach.

Yes, so am I. Are you aware that the Japanese are less than 1% Christian, only 0.5% evangelical? In fact probably all of the countries this mission effort is trying to reach have a much higher percentage of Christians than where I am: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc.
I'd be happy to discuss my points with you, but I won't debate them here. Please bear in mind that this is a fellowship forum, not a debate forum.

I've known about this "indigenous" missionary philosophy for many years. It was first tried by Karl Gutzlaff (1803-1851), a pioneer missionary who went first to Thailand, then to China, and also tried to reach Korea and Japan. He started a work similar to what you are touting in 1840, and trained 50 Chinese men. He then solicited support for these men in England. Unfortuantely, the glowing reports sent back by most of these indigenous missionaries were false, and Gutzlaff's work went down in disgrace.

Gutzlaff was sincere, loved the Lord and did much good. So probably the leaders of Gospel for Asia are the same. But their method deserves close scrutiny before you support it.

P. S. The figure of "over $75,000 a year for a foreign missionary" given on the GFA website is very inaccurate. Here we are in the most expensive country in Asia, and we don't need anywhwere near that amount.

I don't know why you are getting so defensive on this John of Japan. From what I have been learning about Gospel for Asia I don't think you can really compare it to what you are doing in Japan.

They are training and sending "indigenous" missionaries in the poorest of the poor countries to people that have never heard the Gospel even one time and have been doing it since the 1960's (not sure about the exact date)

I don't know how you are being supported in Japan but the GFA missionaries are living on about $1500-$2000 per YEAR.

The majority of the 10/40 window countries that GFA is working in is mainly west of you I think in India and such countries where the doors to Western missionaries have been closed.

I'm surprised you have never heard of GFA. You really should read the book "Revolution in World Missions" by K.P. Yohannan before you say they are not effective. I believe thousands of people have been saved in the 10/40 window because of GFA. I think you would agree that that is whats important wouldn't you?

I'm am sure you are doing fantastic work there in Japan and I am so thankful that there are people with your heart to do it. But please don't try to discourage others like me from getting involved in foreign missions the only way we are able by supporting the missionaries that are allready there and serving the Lord.

You mentioned that you are the expert on this subject on this board. Don't let yourself become prideful in what you are doing. God doesn't NEED any of us to do his work, it is our privalege to serve HIM.

 

[dblee32]

Pride is an especially tricky sin. Everyone is usually able to detect its presence except the one who i@ plagued with it. That being said, I have no desire to argue or debate, so I will sign off of this thread. I have said what I said, and I stand by it. Sorry if you don't agree John

 

[John of Japan]

I don't know why you are getting so defensive on this John of Japan. From what I have been learning about Gospel for Asia I don't think you can really compare it to what you are doing in Japan.

Defensive doesn't describe my feelings at all. Bemused is more like it. I couldn't understand (still can't) why you asked for input here on the BB, then made up your mind without considering that input.

They are training and sending "indigenous" missionaries in the poorest of the poor countries to people that have never heard the Gospel even one time and have been doing it since the 1960's (not sure about the exact date)

I don't know how you are being supported in Japan but the GFA missionaries are living on about $1500-$2000 per YEAR.

Are you not even the least curious as to the theological and missiological objections I have to this method of missions?

The majority of the 10/40 window countries that GFA is working in is mainly west of you I think in India and such countries where the doors to Western missionaries have been closed.

I told you I visited a Japanese missionary in that area. Aren't you interested in the slightest as to how that worked out?

I'm surprised you have never heard of GFA. You really should read the book "Revolution in World Missions" by K.P. Yohannan before you say they are not effective. I believe thousands of people have been saved in the 10/40 window because of GFA. I think you would agree that that is whats important wouldn't you?

I never said these missionaries are not effective. I have no doubt some of them are very effective. Souls being saved is certainly wonderful. What I worry about is the eternal effect on the churches being planted of it being done with foreign money. I completely oppose that. Aren't you interested as to why?

I'm am sure you are doing fantastic work there in Japan and I am so thankful that there are people with your heart to do it. But please don't try to discourage others like me from getting involved in foreign missions the only way we are able by supporting the missionaries that are allready there and serving the Lord.

Whether I'm doing a good work here is entirely up to the Lord to judge. I don't even consider that. That would be pride.

I am certainly not trying to discourage you, and apologize if I did so. But there are many avenues for one wishing to support missions. Surely you don't think that GFA is the only avenue for you to support missionaries? What is your local church doing to support missions?

You mentioned that you are the expert on this subject on this board. Don't let yourself become prideful in what you are doing. God doesn't NEED any of us to do his work, it is our privalege to serve HIM.

Please don't twist my words. I did NOT say that I am the expert on this subject on this board. If what I said was prideful, then the Apostle Paul was prideful also when he said "Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ" (Rom. 15:9). If you wanted to know about Illyricum in the 1st century, wouldn't you ask the Apostle who had been there and preached there?

 

[John of Japan]

Pride is an especially tricky sin. Everyone is usually able to detect its presence except the one who i@ plagued with it. That being said, I have no desire to argue or debate, so I will sign off of this thread. I have said what I said, and I stand by it. Sorry if you don't agree John

If what I've said on this thread is pride, then we missionaries ought to just quit writing our prayer letters. And you as an evangelist ought to never send out a newsletter telling where you've preached and how the Lord has used you. As Paul did, "I magnify mine office" as a missionary. As an evangelist, do you magnify yours and thus magnify Christ who called you?

I think you fail to understand what the Bible really teaches about pride. Perhaps tomorrow I'll start a thread in the Baptist Discussions debate forum on the matter. I invite you to meet me there and discuss it. Perhaps we can learn from each other.

 

[John of Japan]

I don't know how you are being supported in Japan but the GFA missionaries are living on about $1500-$2000 per YEAR.

I do not believe that cost should ever be a factor in God's work. If we are going to factor souls won per dollar spent, then all of us missionaries in Gospel-resistant cultures ought to just give up and go home. God's glory and obedience to the Word of God ought to govern every single decision we make in His work.

 

[milby]

You brought up the money issue ($75,000.00) not I.

I am interested in the things you mentioned above. Please share all that you are doing. Tell me why I should support you instead of GFA. I have just recently become interested in foreign missions and am in the process of learning all I can about missions so PLEASE tell me everything you feel one should know about your mission work. I can just as easily write your name on my check as GFA.

I am not here to defend GFA (but I will with what little I know if I feel they are being attacked unjustly).

You said yourself that you know more about missions that anyone on this board. That is where the pride comment came from. I apologize for that.

 

[John of Japan]

You brought up the money issue ($75,000.00) not I.

I brought up the money issue because GFA is way off base on that. It really is not fair to us foreign missionaries to quote such an inflated figure. I really don't know any missionaries, especially in that area of the world, that get anywhere near that much support.

I am interested in the things you mentioned above. Please share all that you are doing. Tell me why I should support you instead of GFA. I have just recently become interested in foreign missions and am in the process of learning all I can about missions so PLEASE tell me everything you feel one should know about your mission work. I can just as easily write your name on my check as GFA.

I'm not asking for your support. I suggest that first of all you go to your pastor and ask him what he thinks of GFA. Secondly, I suggest you go to the person in charge of the missions program at your church and ask what you can do. They could tell you far better than I what you can do in your situation.

I will say this quickly, and hopefully write more tomorrow giving Scripture. (It's late here in Japan.) GFA missionaries do not communicate with their supporters. The Bible in Acts clearly has the missionaries communicating with their monetary supporters.

I am not here to defend GFA (but I will with what little I know if I feel they are being attacked unjustly).

I have not attacked GFA. I have criticized their method. Anytime I can't critique the method of a mission board, the game is over.

You said yourself that you know more about missions that anyone on this board. That is where the pride comment came from. I apologize for that.

I accept your apology. But once again, please go back and read what I actually said. Don't put words in my mouth. I did NOT say that I know more about missions than anyone on this board. Nor do I believe that.

 

[milby]

I will post more later as I am out of time too. Just for the record here is exactly what you said though.

"Actually, I believe I'm more qualified to comment on this than anyone else on the BB, having been a missionary to a Gospel-resistant country here in the 10/40 window since 1981, and having preached in the area this mission effort is trying to reach."

 

[milby]

By the way how do you quote specific sentences in your reply. That would be helpful to me. I just don't know how to do it. Thanks.

 

[John of Japan]

I will post more later as I am out of time too. Just for the record here is exactly what you said though.

"Actually, I believe I'm more qualified to comment on this than anyone else on the BB, having been a missionary to a Gospel-resistant country here in the 10/40 window since 1981, and having preached in the area this mission effort is trying to reach."

Yes, this is what I said. I was flabbergasted when this was taken to be pride. I only meant it like when a plumber says, "Yes, I know this problem," or a doctor says, "Yes, I know this disease and how to treat it."

I do not call myself an expert on missions, nor would I ever say I know more about missions than anyone on the BB. C4K is my friend, a missionary with the same board. Mexdeaf is my friend. There are pastors here who have been to more countries on missions trips than I have.

 

[John of Japan]

By the way how do you quote specific sentences in your reply. That would be helpful to me. I just don't know how to do it. Thanks.

When you write a reply to a post, in order to have the original post included with your post, reply by clicking on the little "quote" button at the bottom right of every post. That will include the post of the original poster with the BB name of the person.

After this, if you want to answer each paragraph individually, you first look at the other person's post you have quoted. It will have one of these [the information about the quote] at the beginning and end. Move the end one up to the end of the first paragraph in the quote. Next, double click on the second paragraph so that the whole thing is highlighted. Then look at the top of the box you are writing in. Click on the little cartoon balloon there, and that will then put the second paragraph in quotes after you submit your reply.

I hope this helps. :type: