Church of Christ?

[12strings]

How should Conservative baptists view those who hold to baptismal regeneration, such as those in the Church of Christ?

Here is what I understand to be their position:
Baptism alone does not save you, Repentance & Faith in Christ are necessary for salvation. They don't just go around asking people if they want to be dunked to get out of hell. However, once a person decides to follow Christ, they must be baptized to "seal the deal."

Options I see for this include:
1. Evangelize them as lost people who are following a false gospel. (adding something to salvation that is not necessary).

2. View them as fellow Christians who are mistaken on this issue. (Ie, they were saved before their baptism, they just didn't know it). This is how I would view a conservative Presbyterian who believes in the gospel, but also practices pedobaptism. This might also be how we view a baptist who has trusted in Christ, but who does not have strong assurance because they fear they have sinned too big...depending on the case, we may not urge such a person to "Get saved" again, but would simply point them to the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice that they have already believed in.

TO BE CLEAR, I DON'T WANT TO DEBATE WHETHER BAPTISM SAVES YOU...I BELIEVE IT DOES NOT...

I'd like to hear how others who reject baptismal regeneration view those who accept it.

-Andy

 

[JesusFan]

How should Conservative baptists view those who hold to baptismal regeneration, such as those in the Church of Christ?

Here is what I understand to be their position:
Baptism alone does not save you, Repentance & Faith in Christ are necessary for salvation. They don't just go around asking people if they want to be dunked to get out of hell. However, once a person decides to follow Christ, they must be baptized to "seal the deal."

Options I see for this include:
1. Evangelize them as lost people who are following a false gospel. (adding something to salvation that is not necessary).

2. View them as fellow Christians who are mistaken on this issue. (Ie, they were saved before their baptism, they just didn't know it). This is how I would view a conservative Presbyterian who believes in the gospel, but also practices pedobaptism. This might also be how we view a baptist who has trusted in Christ, but who does not have strong assurance because they fear they have sinned too big...depending on the case, we may not urge such a person to "Get saved" again, but would simply point them to the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice that they have already believed in.

TO BE CLEAR, I DON'T WANT TO DEBATE WHETHER BAPTISM SAVES YOU...I BELIEVE IT DOES NOT...

I'd like to hear how others who reject baptismal regeneration view those who accept it.

-Andy

ALL depends on how each individual person views this issue withing that Church...

IF actually sees water baptism as being essential to salvation, lost w/o it, would say a defective/false Gospel

IF they see it as being "part of the church stuff" but NOT adding/part of salvation, would say they have right Gospel, but wrong church!

Knew family belonged to that Church, they did believe no baptism meant no salvation, as that completedthe process. made it full and complete!

 

[Alive in Christ]

As I undestand there view..and I could be wrong..Water baptism is essential for salvation.

No water-no salvation-no exceptions.

This is comming from what I gleaned from a radio call in program that one of their churches used to have in this area.
Again, I could be wrong. Just the impression I got from that program.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Andy...

I'd like to hear how others who reject baptismal regeneration view those who accept it.

-Andy

I respect them. I view them as being born again evangelical christians who are in error regarding this topic.

 

[JesusFan]

Andy...

I respect them. I view them as being born again evangelical christians who are in error regarding this topic.[/QUOTE]

Think that IF any addition the Gospel is made, it becomes a false Gospel, and THAT would not be able to save!

Tend to see this Church as being a group with saved persons within their ranks, but dsaved in spite of a false Gospel, as they would not see baptism as part of salvation process, and do need to find say a good local baptist Church!

 

[InTheLight]

I'd like to hear how others who reject baptismal regeneration view those who accept it.
-Andy

I'd view them as fellow Christians who are mistaken on this issue. The Church of Christ stance is like a 180 view of some evangelical Lutheran churches, like the Lutheran Brethren and most Wisconsin Evangelical Synod Lutheran churches. Where the CoC teaches that baptism 'seals the deal' these Lutherans teach that infant baptism is the introduction to Christianity (the first step) but that as you grow up you must affirm repentance and faith in Jesus. In fact, these Lutheran synods will admit that baptism is not salvific.

 

[JesusFan]

I'd view them as fellow Christians who are mistaken on this issue. The Church of Christ stance is like a 180 view of some evangelical Lutheran churches, like the Lutheran Brethren and most Wisconsin Evangelical Synod Lutheran churches. Where the CoC teaches that baptism 'seals the deal' these Lutherans teach that infant baptism is the introduction to Christianity (the first step) but that as you grow up you must affirm repentance and faith in Jesus. In fact, these Lutheran synods will admit that baptism is not salvific.

Per the Apostle Paul though, If ANY THING gets added to the Gospel message, not the real Gospel and should be sen as being that!

Think ALL hinges on IF the individual sees water baptism as actually saving them or not, regardless what their church teaches on it!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Hmmm...

How did that "sliding thing" get in post #5 ???

I was quoted but I know I didnt put in in there. At least not knowingly.

What gives? Maybe I did it by accident??


Oh. I think Jesus Fan did it. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[InTheLight]

Per the Apostle Paul though, If ANY THING gets added to the Gospel message, not the real Gospel and should be sen as being that!

So much for Calvinism, then! HA!

Think ALL hinges on IF the individual sees water baptism as actually saving them or not, regardless what their church teaches on it!

Wait, isn't it whether or not God saves an individual by grace no matter what their faith or lack of faith? (Just referencing yours and others arguments in the child salvation and age of accountability threads)

 

[JesusFan]

So much for Calvinism, then! HA!

Well, NOT!

As Calvinism JUST explains how the method God uses to save actually works, NOT adding to the Gospel!

Wait, isn't it whether or not God saves an individual by grace no matter what their faith or lack of faith? (Just referencing yours and others arguments in the child salvation and age of accountability threads)

Well...

Can God apply saving Grace towards whom so ever he desires to have mercy upon? NOT cal, that BIBLE

And IF babies cannot exercise faith, God is thus impotent to save them even IF He desires to?

 

[InTheLight]

Well...

Can God apply saving Grace towards whom so ever he desires to have mercy upon? NOT cal, that BIBLE

And IF babies cannot exercise faith, God is thus impotent to save them even IF He desires to?

Never mind, I don't want to get into it again.

 

[DHK]

The Church of Christ is a cult.
They have a works based salvation; works cannot save; only Christ can save.
They claim that repentance, faith, confession, baptism, are all different and necessary for salvation. Each one is a "work" in and of itself. If baptism is necessary for salvation then it indeed is baptismal regeneration--one of the earliest heresies of the church.

They also believe that only Church of Christ members can go to heaven.
Denominations are sinful.
If you have not been baptized by the proper "authority" (COC) you are not saved. This is the mark of a cult, and puts it into a works-based salvation.

 

[quantumfaith]

Never mind, I don't want to get into it again.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

The Church of Christ is a cult.
They have a works based salvation; works cannot save; only Christ can save.
They claim that repentance, faith, confession, baptism, are all different and necessary for salvation. Each one is a "work" in and of itself. If baptism is necessary for salvation then it indeed is baptismal regeneration--one of the earliest heresies of the church.

They also believe that only Church of Christ members can go to heaven.
Denominations are sinful.
If you have not been baptized by the proper "authority" (COC) you are not saved. This is the mark of a cult, and puts it into a works-based salvation.

DHK,

I am not certain here as I know very little about CoC. My guess is that they would argue that being "obedient" in baptism is not akin to "working" for or "earning" salvation.

 

[DHK]

DHK,

I am not certain here as I know very little about CoC. My guess is that they would argue that being "obedient" in baptism is not akin to "working" for or "earning" salvation.

They may not phrase it that way but that is the only conclusion one can come to when one takes into consideration:
1. Baptism is necessary for salvation, and,
2. Baptism by the proper authority (COC pastor only) is a valid baptism, without which one cannot be saved.

Baptism is a work. That is what makes it a works-based salvation. They may deny it, but the fact that baptism and their baptism only is required for salvation, is salvation by works.

 

[convicted1]

How should Conservative baptists view those who hold to baptismal regeneration, such as those in the Church of Christ?

Here is what I understand to be their position:
Baptism alone does not save you, Repentance & Faith in Christ are necessary for salvation. They don't just go around asking people if they want to be dunked to get out of hell. However, once a person decides to follow Christ, they must be baptized to "seal the deal."

Options I see for this include:
1. Evangelize them as lost people who are following a false gospel. (adding something to salvation that is not necessary).

2. View them as fellow Christians who are mistaken on this issue. (Ie, they were saved before their baptism, they just didn't know it). This is how I would view a conservative Presbyterian who believes in the gospel, but also practices pedobaptism. This might also be how we view a baptist who has trusted in Christ, but who does not have strong assurance because they fear they have sinned too big...depending on the case, we may not urge such a person to "Get saved" again, but would simply point them to the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice that they have already believed in.

TO BE CLEAR, I DON'T WANT TO DEBATE WHETHER BAPTISM SAVES YOU...I BELIEVE IT DOES NOT...

I'd like to hear how others who reject baptismal regeneration view those who accept it.

-Andy

The CoC's around here believe that if you aren't baptized in the water, you can't go to heaven. They throw the blood and Grace out with the bath water.

 

[convicted1]

The Church of Christ is a cult.
They have a works based salvation; works cannot save; only Christ can save.
They claim that repentance, faith, confession, baptism, are all different and necessary for salvation. Each one is a "work" in and of itself. If baptism is necessary for salvation then it indeed is baptismal regeneration--one of the earliest heresies of the church.

They also believe that only Church of Christ members can go to heaven.
Denominations are sinful.
If you have not been baptized by the proper "authority" (COC) you are not saved. This is the mark of a cult, and puts it into a works-based salvation.

Actually Brother DHK, they do not hold to the CoC's only going to heaven(a bunch believe that all believers will make it), but still hold to the water being the "deal sealer", and without it, you won't make it.

 

[JesusFan]

[

QUOTE=DHK;1725027]They may not phrase it that way but that is the only conclusion one can come to when one takes into consideration:
1. Baptism is necessary for salvation, and,
2. Baptism by the proper authority (COC pastor only) is a valid baptism, without which one cannot be saved.

Baptism is a work. That is what makes it a works-based salvation. They may deny it, but the fact that baptism and their baptism only is required for salvation, is salvation by works.

[/QUOTE]

This is indeed "sticky" as Roman catholic Church holds to infant baptism to wash away original sins and needed to be part of "salvation process"
RCC heretical Gospel false Gospel

Lutheryns hold to babies getting baptised, don't think they hold to thast regenerating them...

Would see CoC being more akin to theLutheryns in this regard, but IF holdingto water Baptism as essentially part of salvation process, MUST be performed in order to one to be really saved, than a false Gospel!

 

[DHK]

They may not phrase it that way but that is the only conclusion one can come to when one takes into consideration:
1. Baptism is necessary for salvation, and,
2. Baptism by the proper authority (COC pastor only) is a valid baptism, without which one cannot be saved.

Baptism is a work. That is what makes it a works-based salvation. They may deny it, but the fact that baptism and their baptism only is required for salvation, is salvation by works.

We had some regular COC's that posted in the Other Christian Denom. Forum. I gave them my testimony. When I got saved--trusted Christ as my Savior, I didn't get baptized right away (for lack of teaching). I was saved through an international Christian organization on a university campus, but continued to go to a Catholic Church. I got baptized two years later.

I asked them: Suppose I had a heart attack and died between the time I was saved and the time I was baptized. Would I have gone to heaven?
The curt answer I received was this: "NO! and you wouldn't go to heaven now either!"

 

[Salty]

Allow me to use an analogy. (may not be a great one, but...)

I need to register my car with the State. I go in and pay the fee and receive the registration form. I am also given license plates. I put the plates on the front seat and drive home. Is my car registered? I arrive home and ask my next door neighbor, who happens to be COC, for a screwdriver and 2 nuts & bolts, to put on my license plate.
Would he say that my car is not registered until I "baptize" my car by putting on my plates or...

Salty