Did We get The Doctrine Of original Sin From Bible, or Catholic Church?

[HankD]

And Hank, notice that 1 Cor 15:22 says that in Adam all "die". It does not say in Adam all are "dead". That is a very important distinction, you must first be alive to die.

But... this verse is speaking of physical death, not spiritual death to begin with.

So, those who argue that 1 Cor 15:22 says men are born spiritually dead in Adam's sin err.

You are correct about one thing - I'm not convinced of your position because of scripture, namely these two verses Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:22.

To me, the resurrection of which 1 Corinthians 15:22 speaks is all encompassing, it is unto eternal life and delivers from that which we received from Adam (Romans 5:12).

In my view death is all one package received from our progenitor Adam.

And yes, I remember as a child going to church, carefree and untroubled by my conscience, firmly believing that God loved and heard me.
The wrongs that I had done seemed not to be so wrong.

It was in the military, I began reading the Bible. Genesis was fine but Exodus and Leviticus "killed" me, destroyed my connection with God.
A year or so later I received Christ and returned to that position I felt in my childhood. But that is "feelings" and not Scripture.
Of course there was much more to come as I grew spiritually.

I believe that the teaching of the scripture (Romans 5:12) is that we become what we are because it was passed on to us as the children of Adam. True, we put our stamp of approval on what we are by committing our own repetoir of sins.

I'm not convinced of the anaysis of Romans 5:12 you gave. It seems clear to me that the teaching is we enter this world "in Adam".

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
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Good point though, "die" is present indicative. I'll think on that.

Thanks
HankD

 

[Winman]

Hank, spiritual death and physical death are not the same, and neither is being born again.

Lk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Zaccheus didn't have to wait to receive spiritual life, Jesus said he was saved "this day".

But he still had to physically die in Adam and is awaiting the resurrection of his physical body.

Unlike you, I was not sure I was saved as a child, and when I heard a sermon on sin I was absolutely convinced I was not saved. But I was also shown and believed Jesus died for my sins and that if I called on him he would save me. I did call on Jesus, fully trusting him alone to save me and was saved that very day.

 

[DHK]

When people say Jesus "rose again" they mean he was alive again.

Look at the hymns we sing.

He arose! He arose!
Alleluia! Christ arose

To say that He arose again, or arose again from the dead would change the meaning of the song. He only arose or rose from the dead once.

 

[DHK]

So, all three stories are about a sinner repenting and being saved. The prodigal son is not about a Christian being backslidden, a true believer is never said to be "dead".

What does the term "prodigal son" actually mean? Did you ever look it up?

 

[Winman]

What does the term "prodigal son" actually mean? Did you ever look it up?

Here is what the dictionary said;

1: characterized by profuse or wasteful expenditure : lavish <a prodigal feast> <prodigal outlays for her clothes>
2: recklessly spendthrift <the prodigal prince>
3: yielding abundantly : luxuriant —often used with of <nature has been so prodigal of her bounty — H. T. Buckle

I don't know what this has to do with anything, this word is not found in the scriptures.

 

[Winman]

Look at the hymns we sing.

He arose! He arose!
Alleluia! Christ arose

To say that He arose again, or arose again from the dead would change the meaning of the song. He only arose or rose from the dead once.

Well, then I guess Paul made a big mistake, he said Jesus "rose again"

1 Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[Winman]

More scripture that refutes original sin.

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Those who believe in Original Sin believe all persons are born dead in sin. However the scriptures say men are judged according to what they have done in their bodies, not simply because they exist.

That babies have done no evil is clearly stated by Romans 9:11

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

Both Esau and Jacob were alive when this was said of them, they were in their mother Rebecca's womb. The scriptures say they had done neither good nor evil.

2 Cor 5:10 says we will be judged according to those things we have DONE in our body. In fact, it says it TWICE.

Esau and Jacob had done neither good or evil in their bodies, so how could they be judged sinners and dead in sin?

 

[DHK]

Well, then I guess Paul made a big mistake, he said Jesus "rose again"

1 Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Perhaps it wasn't Paul:

that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, (1 Corinthians 15:4) WEB

It could have been the translators. However, this line of argument isn't really germane to the OP

 

[Winman]

Perhaps it wasn't Paul:

that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, (1 Corinthians 15:4) WEB

It could have been the translators. However, this line of argument isn't really germane to the OP

I was simply answering you. But the phrase "rose again" is used three times of Jesus, 1 Cor 15:4, 2 Cor 5:15, and 1 Thes 4:14 (KJB).

 

[DHK]

More scripture that refutes original sin.

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Those who believe in Original Sin believe all persons are born dead in sin. However the scriptures say men are judged according to what they have done in their bodies, not simply because they exist.

That babies have done no evil is clearly stated by Romans 9:11

A red herring. It has nothing to do with original sin.
Both Calvinists and non-Cals have differing points of view on this controversial subject. It is another subject of which original sin has no bearing.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

And your point? Original sin does not point to the "doing," but rather the "nature" which we have inherited. There is a difference.

Both Esau and Jacob were alive when this was said of them, they were in their mother Rebecca's womb. The scriptures say they had done neither good nor evil.

DONE That doesn't speak to their nature.

2 Cor 5:10 says we will be judged according to those things we have DONE in our body. In fact, it says it TWICE.

Again, "DONE" as you have said. The reason we do the things that we is because "sin dwelleth in us." as Paul said. That old sin nature inherited from birth is still there and is the impetus giving us the desire to sin.

Esau and Jacob had done neither good or evil in their bodies, so how could they be judged sinners and dead in sin?

Because of what they had DONE, not because of their nature. They had evil natures, inherited at birth. What they did after they were born is a different matter.

 

[DHK]

Here is what the dictionary said;

1: characterized by profuse or wasteful expenditure : lavish <a prodigal feast> <prodigal outlays for her clothes>
2: recklessly spendthrift <the prodigal prince>
3: yielding abundantly : luxuriant —often used with of <nature has been so prodigal of her bounty — H. T. Buckle

I don't know what this has to do with anything, this word is not found in the scriptures.

The parable is the parable of "the prodigal son."
As you have outlined above: he is a son, and he was prodigal--wasteful, lavish, a reckless spendthrift, etc. That is the life he chose as long as he had the money from his inheritance. He wasn't lost spiritually; he was separated from his father and he needed to come home and make things right.

 

[Winman]

The parable is the parable of "the prodigal son."
As you have outlined above: he is a son, and he was prodigal--wasteful, lavish, a reckless spendthrift, etc. That is the life he chose as long as he had the money from his inheritance. He wasn't lost spiritually; he was separated from his father and he needed to come home and make things right.

DHK, the scriptures never apply the term "lost" to a believer, but only unbelievers.

Lk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Lk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

The father clearly says the son was "lost". This means he was dead in sin.

Jn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

The only disciple who was lost was Judas Iscariot.

2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The lost are those whose mind's have been blinded by Satan and believe not.

Show me even one example in all of scripture where a believer is said to be "lost".