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was Jesus Operating in the "Gifts of The Holy Spirit" While On earth?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
What do you mean "gifts"? Did he speak in tongues? Did He exercise faith? etc? If you mean did He work in the power of the Spirit? Absolutely, but the gifts are for the church, not its Head. Even on earth, there was no grace or truth lacking for which He needed a gift. On the contrary, He was "full of grace and truth." He is the Giver of gifts, not their recipient.
Lets back up a bit and consider "Christ" Does this not mean "the annointed?" With what was Jesus "equipped for service?" Did Jesus do signs and wonders by His own power, or through the power of the Holy Spirit? Lets not throw out sound doctrine, Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Annointed of God in a half baked effort to support that Jesus is the Son of God. Not to put too fine a point on it but He is both!!!!
Would say that since He vol chose to lay aside use of His divine attributes while here on earth, would say "Yes, exercised perfect faith!"
jesus though lived out here while on earth out of His "humanity" so it was ALL by the HS in Him...
Wouldn't that be the same for us today?
remembering that he chose NOT to operate out of His own "Godhood?"
Could Jesus have done the miracles without the Holy Spirit? Of course not! He was sinless, so to postulate not fulfilling the prophecy read in Luke 4 would have missed the mark.
Now as to why God's foretold plan was for His Annointed to become our deliverer as opposed to some other plan, all we know is this is God's revealed plan. We do not need to justify it with our rationalizations.
Now as to why God's foretold plan was for His Annointed to become our deliverer as opposed to some other plan, all we know is this is God's revealed plan. We do not need to justify it with our rationalizations.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (Matthew 28:18)
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. (John 19:11)
--Jesus was in full control, even here. He reminded Pilate that the power he had was from God. Christ was God. He pulled the strings, not Pilate.
Christ could have performed any miracle that he so desired. He said to Peter that he could have called 12 legions of angels to save him from going to the cross (72,000 angels). But he didn't. He went willingly, as a sacrifice to make an atonement for our sins.
His miracles were to show to the world that he was God, and as God He came to die for the sins of the world.
Jesus could perform miracles through the power of the Holy Spirt. No argument with this observation. Could Jesus command angels, yes of course.
But what is being propounded is that Jesus could perform miracles without doing it through the Holy Spirit. I am unaware of any support for this speculation in scripture. What scripture teaches is that Jesus's power came from the Holy Spirit.
Here is a question for you "teachers of the word" to consider: When Jesus cried out "why have you forsaken me" was He still operating with the power of the Holy Spirit or had the Holy Spirit been withdrawn to fullfil prophecy?
But what is being propounded is that Jesus could perform miracles without doing it through the Holy Spirit. I am unaware of any support for this speculation in scripture. What scripture teaches is that Jesus's power came from the Holy Spirit.
Here is a question for you "teachers of the word" to consider: When Jesus cried out "why have you forsaken me" was He still operating with the power of the Holy Spirit or had the Holy Spirit been withdrawn to fullfil prophecy?
The gifts of the Holy Spirit were given to the local church.
Jesus and God (and thus the Holy Spirit cannot be separated.
Christ is deity. He had the full measure of the Holy Spirit.
The OP: was Jesus Operating in the "Gifts of The Holy Spirit" While On earth?
is non-sensical and wrong.
For again, the gifts of the Holy Spirit were post-Pentecost and given only to the local church.
Jesus is God. He is not deficient in anything.
The Pharisees accused him of dong his works (miracles) through the power of Satan. Jesus rebuked them so strongly that he said that they had committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which can never be forgiven.
Why?
Because they, being on earth and seeing in the flesh the miracles that Christ did, attributed them to Satan and not to God the Spirit, committed such a blasphemous act that it was unforgiveable. It was unforgiveable because it demonstrated the depths of unbelief to which they had sunk.
Great question Van, and they can also consider. As the resurrection to life incorruptible happens for the dead in Christ in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, I assume it happened for the Christ who had the same promise as his father Abraham, also in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. That being said, was his death much the same did the following events happen in about a moment in the twinkling of an eye?
From Matt. 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? 50 1st pt Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, Luke 23:46 1st pt And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: M2ndpt yielded up the ghost. L2ndpt and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
The spirit of the breath of life that had made him a living soul and the Holy Spirit he had been indwelt with from conception returned to God, the Father who given it and by which the Christ would be raised. (ref. Rom. 8:11 if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,)
Jesus the Christ was D E A D. That is what the bible teaches. Christ died for you. He received the wages for yours, mine and our sin.
The bible says, when God the Father after three days and three nights of being dead by his Holy Spirit raised Jesus the Christ from the dead he gave him the promise of the Holy Spirit. See Acts 2:32,33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this,
which ye now see and hear.
Gal. 3 The promises were made to Abraham and his singular seed Christ v16
The law was added until the singular seed Christ came to whom the promise was made. V19 The law identifies sin therefore concludes all as sinners. V22 We receive the Holy Spirit through Jesus the Christ which I have shown received it from the God the Father. Why did he receive it from the Father? Phil 2:8 he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Obedience of faith. Back to Gal. that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. V22. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. V23 He Jesus the author and finisher of the Faith that saves. His faith in the blood of his death and his being made alive again by the Father is the Faith of Christ, what saves anyone who is or will be saved.
Tom Butler
New Member
I'm wondering why Jesus needed the power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was God. The creator of the universe. He needs nothing. From anybody.
Tom Butler
New Member
DHK said:
Sorry, brother, I wrote my post #14 before I saw your post #12.
Great minds think alike, I guess.
Why does he have promises made to him as the seed of Abraham?
How did he by inheritance obtain ( receive something at the very least in to addition to what he may or may not already had) a more excellent name than the angels. We are joint heirs with Christ. Why would Christ be inheriting something, is it relative to the promises made to Abraham and Christ his seed, just what is this inheritance, has Christ inherited it yet, when did he inherit his inheritance if he has already inherited, in Titus 1:2 there is a promise made before this present age, is that promise subject to preeminence?
I have more?
From Abraham, from whom came Jacob and Judah, from whom came David.
"The lion of the tribe of Judah" refers to Christ.
He will sit on "the Throne of David."
Christ is prophet, priest and king: the fulfillment of all three offices.
In his priesthood he was not of the tribe of Levi, where Aaron came from, but of Judah where King David came from. Christ's priesthood is from Melchizedek, a type of Christ). See Hebrews 7. Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek.
Jesus was a better prophet; a better priest; a better king.
"The lion of the tribe of Judah" refers to Christ.
He will sit on "the Throne of David."
Christ is prophet, priest and king: the fulfillment of all three offices.
In his priesthood he was not of the tribe of Levi, where Aaron came from, but of Judah where King David came from. Christ's priesthood is from Melchizedek, a type of Christ). See Hebrews 7. Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek.
Jesus was a better prophet; a better priest; a better king.
I do not believe my original post was clear, so I added the question marks.
DHK was your post an answer to one or more of these eight questions?
Why does he have promises made to him as the seed of Abraham?
How did he by inheritance obtain ( receive something at the very least in to addition to what he may or may not already had) a more excellent name than the angels? We are joint heirs with Christ. Why would Christ be inheriting something? Is what Jesus inherits and we are joint to relative to the promises made to Abraham and Christ his seed? Just what is this inheritance? Has Christ inherited it yet? When did he inherit his inheritance if he has already inherited? In Titus 1:2 there is a promise made before this present age began. Is that promise in Titus 1:2 subject to the preeminence?
Eight questions.
DHK was your post an answer to one or more of these eight questions?
Why does he have promises made to him as the seed of Abraham?
How did he by inheritance obtain ( receive something at the very least in to addition to what he may or may not already had) a more excellent name than the angels? We are joint heirs with Christ. Why would Christ be inheriting something? Is what Jesus inherits and we are joint to relative to the promises made to Abraham and Christ his seed? Just what is this inheritance? Has Christ inherited it yet? When did he inherit his inheritance if he has already inherited? In Titus 1:2 there is a promise made before this present age began. Is that promise in Titus 1:2 subject to the preeminence?
Eight questions.
[
Jesus is God mainfested into Human flesh, Word of God who became a Man...
part of His kenosis of that time, as jesus agreed to NOT operaste/function from out of His diety while upon the earth, but limited/humbled Himself to 'working" from His Humanity fully, and as such, relied Totally upon His relationship to His father, and power of the Holy Spirit!
He did not "need" to, but He chose to!
[/QUOTE]
Jesus is God mainfested into Human flesh, Word of God who became a Man...
part of His kenosis of that time, as jesus agreed to NOT operaste/function from out of His diety while upon the earth, but limited/humbled Himself to 'working" from His Humanity fully, and as such, relied Totally upon His relationship to His father, and power of the Holy Spirit!
He did not "need" to, but He chose to!
Because he came, not only as God, but as man. Someday in the future he will sit on the throne of David. For that reason his ancestry has to back to Abraham.
Also, the Jews said to him: "We have Abraham as our Father."
Jesus answered: "Before Abraham was, I Am."
It was a claim to is deity. He was more important than Abraham.
When he was on earth he submitted himself as a man to the Father, at the same time never losing his deity. As a man he would obtain inheritance.
However in the Book of Hebrews the author is comparing Christ and Christianity to the religion of Judaism, and showing how much better Christ is to the angels, to the priesthood, etc. The key word there is "better than." (more excellent).
You are confusing our spiritual inheritance with Christ's inheritance as a man. The two don't have anything in common. We will be heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ because of trusting Christ and what he has done for us. That has nothing to do with Christ inheriting the throne of David.
Christ will inherit the Throne of David when He comes again to set up his rule at the Millennial reign for a thousand years.
In Titus 1:2 there is a promise made before this present age began. Is that promise in Titus 1:2 subject to the preeminence?
Eight questions.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by "the preeminence.
Titus 1:2 has more to do with Paul than anything and cannot be disassociated from verse one, as it is part of the same sentence.