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was Jesus Operating in the "Gifts of The Holy Spirit" While On earth?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Time to put up or shut up. Please provide scriptural support for the idea Jesus was able to perform miracles (whether as prophet, priest, or king) without the annointing. Tic Toc
Jesus cOULD have done all things by OWN power, but chose to use power of the HS instead while as a man!
Who are you addressing this to?Time to put up or shut up. Please provide scriptural support for the idea Jesus was able to perform miracles (whether as prophet, priest, or king) without the annointing. Tic Toc
He is God. He is able to do all things. While on earth he said, "I come to do the will of my Father." He submitted himself to the first person of the triune Godhead." But that doesn't mean that he emptied himself of all power to do anything that was not against his nature to do so.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God one LORD: Deut, 6:4 KJV without is
Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT) hear you! Israel Yahweh Elohim-of-us Yahweh one
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
Greek Interlinear Bible (NT) from Scripture4all.org
In original was the saying and the saying was toward The God and God was the saying this was in original toward The God.
Is this speaking of One God A Spirit Being OR something else?
Did this God impregnate the virgin Mary by His Spirit and she brought forth (gave birth) to her first born son? They called his name Jesus. AND
And the Word became flesh, John 1:14
This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. 1 John 5:6 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: ! John 4:2
Did God reproduce himself in the seed/egg of the woman as flesh just as he had created the first man Adam a living soul, who was the figure of him to come OR was this some kind of omnipresence of God?
Did the one referenced above (The One God) beget in the virgin Mary by his own Spirit Being a child that became her firstborn son in the flesh the day she brought forth OR did something from a triune being named Elohim above enter the virgin Mary and be born as a 100% God and 100% being nine months later?
Was the one they called Jesus begotten of God OR something else?
Please use as much scripture as possible.
Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT) hear you! Israel Yahweh Elohim-of-us Yahweh one
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
Greek Interlinear Bible (NT) from Scripture4all.org
In original was the saying and the saying was toward The God and God was the saying this was in original toward The God.
Is this speaking of One God A Spirit Being OR something else?
Did this God impregnate the virgin Mary by His Spirit and she brought forth (gave birth) to her first born son? They called his name Jesus. AND
And the Word became flesh, John 1:14
This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. 1 John 5:6 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: ! John 4:2
Did God reproduce himself in the seed/egg of the woman as flesh just as he had created the first man Adam a living soul, who was the figure of him to come OR was this some kind of omnipresence of God?
Did the one referenced above (The One God) beget in the virgin Mary by his own Spirit Being a child that became her firstborn son in the flesh the day she brought forth OR did something from a triune being named Elohim above enter the virgin Mary and be born as a 100% God and 100% being nine months later?
Was the one they called Jesus begotten of God OR something else?
Please use as much scripture as possible.
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Tom Butler
New Member
Jesus did not give up his deity while on earth, although he veiled his divinity to become fully human. His humanity did not limit his omnipotence, only his display of omnipotence. During his temptation, even Satan acknowledge that Jesus could turn stones into bread. It wasn't that he couldn't. It was that he wouldn't.
Jesus displayed his power over his creation by calming the storm; by multiplying the loaves and fishes; by knowing the hearts and thoughts of men; by raising the dead and healing the sick.
He displayed his power over Satan and his demons.
He limited his display of his deity as a human by limiting his omnipresence. By being in one place at one time. He got hungry, got tired, needed sleep.
He did not die on the cross until he was ready. He gave up his life; it was not taken from him.
For these reasons, Jesus did not require the power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus displayed his power over his creation by calming the storm; by multiplying the loaves and fishes; by knowing the hearts and thoughts of men; by raising the dead and healing the sick.
He displayed his power over Satan and his demons.
He limited his display of his deity as a human by limiting his omnipresence. By being in one place at one time. He got hungry, got tired, needed sleep.
He did not die on the cross until he was ready. He gave up his life; it was not taken from him.
For these reasons, Jesus did not require the power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus did not give up his deity while on earth, although he veiled his divinity to become fully human. His humanity did not limit his omnipotence, only his display of omnipotence. During his temptation, even Satan acknowledge that Jesus could turn stones into bread. It wasn't that he couldn't. It was that he wouldn't.
Jesus displayed his power over his creation by calming the storm; by multiplying the loaves and fishes; by knowing the hearts and thoughts of men; by raising the dead and healing the sick.
He displayed his power over Satan and his demons.
He limited his display of his deity as a human by limiting his omnipresence. By being in one place at one time. He got hungry, got tired, needed sleep.
He did not die on the cross until he was ready. He gave up his life; it was not taken from him.
For these reasons, Jesus did not require the power of the Holy Spirit.
And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Jesus was begotten of the one God the I Am.
Jesus was in the loins of his Father the I Am at the burning bush.
Read this in the context of my previous post.
This is not true. Judah was in his loins as much as Levi. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek. The important thing to note here is who Melchizedek is. Look in Hebrews 7. He either is Christ or a type of Christ. He is without father, without mother, without genealogy, a priest forever.And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
Jesus was begotten of the one God the I Am.
Jesus was in the loins of his Father the I Am at the burning bush.
Read this in the context of my previous post.
That describes the eternal Christ. But Christ is not a priest after the order of Levi, but rather after the order of Melchizedek. His priesthood is different, from another order. His human descent comes from Judah, not Levi.
God could have put invisible pink elephants orbiting around Mars. For anyone to claim something is true because God could have done it without some specific support in scripture is beyond reason. Rather than limit claims about God to what scripture says, they say, if scripture does not say it is not true, then it is fair game to claim it is true. Fiddlesticks.
What are you upset for?God could have put invisible pink elephants orbiting around Mars. For anyone to claim something is true because God could have done it without some specific support in scripture is beyond reason. Rather than limit claims about God to what scripture says, they say, if scripture does not say it is not true, then it is fair game to claim it is true. Fiddlesticks.
In a post of yours on the first page here is what you said:
I don't think anyone disagrees with you.Could Jesus have done the miracles without the Holy Spirit? Of course not! He was sinless, so to postulate not fulfilling the prophecy read in Luke 4 would have missed the mark.
Now as to why God's foretold plan was for His Annointed to become our deliverer as opposed to some other plan, all we know is this is God's revealed plan. We do not need to justify it with our rationalizations.
What are you arguing against?
This is not true. Judah was in his loins as much as Levi. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek. The important thing to note here is who Melchizedek is. Look in Hebrews 7. He either is Christ or a type of Christ. He is without father, without mother, without genealogy, a priest forever.
That describes the eternal Christ. But Christ is not a priest after the order of Levi, but rather after the order of Melchizedek. His priesthood is different, from another order. His human descent comes from Judah, not Levi.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God one LORD:
Did the One Lord God above reproduce himself in the seed/egg of the woman as flesh just as he had created the first man Adam a living soul, who was the figure of him to come OR did a person from a triune being named Elohim above enter the virgin Mary and be born as a 100% God and 100% flesh man being nine months later?
According to you he did not even need the Holy Spirit for he was the Holy Spirit in flesh.
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If you ask plain questions I will give plain answers. When you ask your questions metaphorically referring to the loins of Abraham and about Melchizedek no wonder you have people confused.Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God one LORD:
Did the One Lord God above reproduce himself in the seed/egg of the woman as flesh just as he had created the first man Adam a living soul, who was the figure of him to come OR did a person from a triune being named Elohim above enter the virgin Mary and be born as a 100% God and 100% flesh man being nine months later?
According to you he did not even need the Holy Spirit for he was the Holy Spirit in flesh.
I never said any such thing as Christ not needing the Holy Spirit.
I don't know where you are going with this.
Jesus is both God and man. He was fully God and fully man.
What happened when he came to earth?
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)
--Christ, as God, entered into this world in the flesh, born of a woman.
He was totally flesh and totally God. Even as an infant he never gave up his deity. We cannot divide the trinity up. God is God. God came in the flesh. The only time when God the Father was actually separated from God the Son was for a momentary period of time when Christ hung on the cross bearing the sins of the world. "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Otherwise one cannot dissect the trinity. Christ was born of a virgin, conceived of the Holy Spirit. That should answer your question, I hope.
If you ask plain questions I will give plain answers. When you ask your questions metaphorically referring to the loins of Abraham and about Melchizedek no wonder you have people confused.
I never said any such thing as Christ not needing the Holy Spirit.
I don't know where you are going with this.
Jesus is both God and man. He was fully God and fully man.
What happened when he came to earth?
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)
--Christ, as God, entered into this world in the flesh, born of a woman.
He was totally flesh and totally God. Even as an infant he never gave up his deity. We cannot divide the trinity up. God is God. God came in the flesh. The only time when God the Father was actually separated from God the Son was for a momentary period of time when Christ hung on the cross bearing the sins of the world. "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Otherwise one cannot dissect the trinity. Christ was born of a virgin, conceived of the Holy Spirit. That should answer your question, I hope.
Where I am going with it is I believe the word of God teaches that Christ the Anointed died for our sins. See post 13. The moment he said the above is the moment he released his Spirit to the Father's hands the same moment he died. And he the Christ was dead for three days and three nights. You do not believe he could die for he was God and God can't die. You believe what died was some body that he possessed as a spirit being with some type of moment separation from God the Father. The word says God, the Word, Spirit Holy beget in a virgin a child flesh and blood for the very purpose of death, the wages for sin that Adam his figure brought on all man.
That which is born of the flesh IS flesh.
concerning His Son, (who is come (γίνομαι A beget word) of the seed of David according to the flesh,
who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; who is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead,) Jesus Christ our Lord; For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (brothers)
He was begotten of God as a flesh man Died as a flesh man then the same Spirit that beget him raised him from the dead as a resurrected man that we could also be made in his image as born from the dead sons of God which takes place at his appearing and kingdom.
That which is born of the spirit IS spirit.
Of which Jesus has the preeminence.
That is how he became the author of eternal salvation.
God did this through his only begotten Son. We are begotten sons of God. How is Jesus the only begotten if we also are begotten of the Father. He only was begotten of the woman by the Spirit where as we are begotten by the Spirit as a gift through the resurrected man Jesus who received it from the Father and shed forth it to us making us heirs (Not inheritors) according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7 Remember we are joint heirs with who ? Is Jesus still an heir or has he inherited.
Hi DHK, here is what Jesusfan asserted:
Jesus cOULD have done all things by OWN power, but chose to use power of the HS instead while as a man!
And here is my understanding of that assertion:
Please provide scriptural support for the idea Jesus was able to perform miracles (whether as prophet, priest, or king) without the anointing.
If you, DHK, agree with me, then only Jesusfan is propounding an assertion without providing any biblical support.
Jesus cOULD have done all things by OWN power, but chose to use power of the HS instead while as a man!
And here is my understanding of that assertion:
Please provide scriptural support for the idea Jesus was able to perform miracles (whether as prophet, priest, or king) without the anointing.
If you, DHK, agree with me, then only Jesusfan is propounding an assertion without providing any biblical support.
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Hi DHK, here is what Jesusfan asserted:
Jesus cOULD have done all things by OWN power, but chose to use power of the HS instead while as a man!
And here is my understanding of that assertion:
Please provide scriptural support for the idea Jesus was able to perform miracles (whether as prophet, priest, or king) without the anointing.
If you, DHK, agree with me, then only Jesusfan is propounding an assertion without providing any biblical support.
To my knowledge only Jesus being begotten of the Holy Spirit had the Holy Spirit without measure. We on the other hand have the earnest of the Spirit when begotten of God.
Unless a person can show support for assertions, they should be considered speculation.
1) Was Jesus conceived by the operation of the Holy Spirit upon Mary? Yes, Luke 1:35
2) Did Jesus "have" the Holy Spirit without measure? Scripture please.
3) When we are "born anew" spiritually are we given the Holy Spirit as a pledge for our inheritance of redemption? Yes, Ephesians 1:13-14.
Jesus was annointed with the Holy Spirit and with Power. But as far as I know, the bible does not say "unlimited power or unlimited Holy Spirit ability." In the absense of some specific supporting verse, I will consider the assertion to be an invention of man.
1) Was Jesus conceived by the operation of the Holy Spirit upon Mary? Yes, Luke 1:35
2) Did Jesus "have" the Holy Spirit without measure? Scripture please.
3) When we are "born anew" spiritually are we given the Holy Spirit as a pledge for our inheritance of redemption? Yes, Ephesians 1:13-14.
Jesus was annointed with the Holy Spirit and with Power. But as far as I know, the bible does not say "unlimited power or unlimited Holy Spirit ability." In the absense of some specific supporting verse, I will consider the assertion to be an invention of man.
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. (Luke 2:40)Unless a person can show support for assertions, they should be considered speculation.
1) Was Jesus conceived by the operation of the Holy Spirit upon Mary? Yes, Luke 1:35
2) Did Jesus "have" the Holy Spirit without measure? Scripture please.
3) When we are "born anew" spiritually are we given the Holy Spirit as a pledge for our inheritance of redemption? Yes, Ephesians 1:13-14.
Jesus was annointed with the Holy Spirit and with Power. But as far as I know, the bible does not say "unlimited power or unlimited Holy Spirit ability." In the absense of some specific supporting verse, I will consider the assertion to be an invention of man.
Unless a person can show support for assertions, they should be considered speculation.
1) Was Jesus conceived by the operation of the Holy Spirit upon Mary? Yes, Luke 1:35
2) Did Jesus "have" the Holy Spirit without measure? Scripture please.
3) When we are "born anew" spiritually are we given the Holy Spirit as a pledge for our inheritance of redemption? Yes, Ephesians 1:13-14.
Jesus was annointed with the Holy Spirit and with Power. But as far as I know, the bible does not say "unlimited power or unlimited Holy Spirit ability." In the absense of some specific supporting verse, I will consider the assertion to be an invention of man.
2) John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
I do not believe that Jesus born of Mary had unlimited power within himself.
I believe he as a man did all things that God by God's own Spirit told and showed him to do. I believe he was of the seed of David through Mary begotten of the Holy Spirit, God. Then I believe he, Jesus the man before spoken of, was by the resurrection from the dead, that is the firstborn from the dead, declared the Son of God, with POWER within himself. Jesus The Christ our Lord. I also believe the called according to his purpose will be born from the dead as he was and in his very image, therefore he will be the firstborn of many brethren. I believe at that time it will be impossible for those so born to sin for they will be born of God and His seed will remain in them.
We have the earnest of the Spirit that is we are begotten of God by his Spirit which Christ gave us from the Father having received it himself from the Father, awaiting to be born in his image at his appearing and kingdom, called in Romans 8:19 the manifestation of the sons of God, which is the earnest expectation of the creation.
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The only reason Jesus limited himself in power is because "he came to do the will of His Father." It is not that He didn't have unlimited power, He did! He was God. He chose purposefully not to use that power. Let's look at a couple of examples:2) John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
I do not believe that Jesus born of Mary had unlimited power within himself.
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. (John 10:17-18)
--Jesus proclaims his power here. The Jews had no power to take his life; neither the Roman soldiers; neither any other power. He was going to the cross willingly, die willingly, and rise from the dead on his power. He set the conditions. He set the rules. He died and rose again on his own terms and his own power. He has unlimited power.
Another example:
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? (Matthew 26:52-54)
--12 legions of angels (6,000 = 1 legion) is 72,000 legions.
One angel in the OT killed 186,000 Assyrian soldiers!
Christ had unlimited power.
He didn't have to go to the cross. He could have called all the power in heaven to deliver him. He told Peter that he didn't need his sword, he had far more power than that. But it was his Father's will for him to go to the cross, and furthermore "the scriptures must be fulfilled."
Whichever way you look at it Christ had unlimited power, but he chose not to use the power that he had because he came to this earth to die for our sins. He remained perfect man and perfect God at the same time. As God he always had unlimited power. But he chose not to use it, and suffered as a man instead.
The only reason Jesus limited himself in power is because "he came to do the will of His Father." It is not that He didn't have unlimited power, He did! He was God. He chose purposefully not to use that power. Let's look at a couple of examples:
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. (John 10:17-18)
--Jesus proclaims his power here. The Jews had no power to take his life; neither the Roman soldiers; neither any other power. He was going to the cross willingly, die willingly, and rise from the dead on his power. He set the conditions. He set the rules. He died and rose again on his own terms and his own power. He has unlimited power.
Another example:
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? (Matthew 26:52-54)
--12 legions of angels (6,000 = 1 legion) is 72,000 legions.
One angel in the OT killed 186,000 Assyrian soldiers!
Christ had unlimited power.
He didn't have to go to the cross. He could have called all the power in heaven to deliver him. He told Peter that he didn't need his sword, he had far more power than that. But it was his Father's will for him to go to the cross, and furthermore "the scriptures must be fulfilled."
Whichever way you look at it Christ had unlimited power, but he chose not to use the power that he had because he came to this earth to die for our sins. He remained perfect man and perfect God at the same time. As God he always had unlimited power. But he chose not to use it, and suffered as a man instead.
Did Jesus the son of Mary also the Son of God actually have to be obedient unto death even death on the cross?
Was it possible for him not to be obedient unto death even the death on the cross?
Or because he was some person of a Godhead in the form of a man and it was the plan of this Godhead from the beginning for this to take place, it was of a foregone conclusion that it would. And being it was going to take place he really could have given the disciples the Holy Spirit before he died because it was his to give because after all he was God?
Did He, Jesus have to receive the Holy Spirit from the Father, Before He could shed It forth on anyone else?
That is exactly what your bible says happened.
He was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.Did Jesus the son of Mary also the Son of God actually have to be obedient unto death even death on the cross?
He had made the decision to come and die as a man before the world was created. That decision already being made by the eternal Godhead, yes, Jesus had to come and be obedient unto death even death on the cross.
No, God is immutable in that he cannot lie.Was it possible for him not to be obedient unto death even the death on the cross?
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)
God is a God of order not confusion. He had a plan and he stuck with that plan. He could have chosen any manner of ways of training and sending out his disciples, but he chose what He knew was best for them. I don't question God's methods. He knows more than I.Or because he was some person of a Godhead in the form of a man and it was the plan of this Godhead from the beginning for this to take place, it was of a foregone conclusion that it would. And being it was going to take place he really could have given the disciples the Holy Spirit before he died because it was his to give because after all he was God?
Jesus is part of the triune Godhead. He is God. Even as an infant coming to this earth as a man, he was conceived by the Holy Spirit. I believe your question is moot. You cannot, in reality, divide God up.Did He, Jesus have to receive the Holy Spirit from the Father, Before He could shed It forth on anyone else?