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Both statements are false.Anytime the bible refers to law it is always speaking of the law of Moses. There are no exceptions.
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
There was no law from Adam to Moses.
That seems like a contradiction, how can they be judged as sinners if their sin is not imputed to them?
Are you saying the only sin imputed to them is Adam's sin?
Please be specific as to what you believe.
Both statements are false.
I have given you scripture to prove that both are false.
When you get a speeding ticket does that fall under the law of Moses? Is it sin? Did you break the LAW? Of course you did! Our law is ordained of God (Romans 13:1-7).
There was law from Adam to Moses, and the Bible never says there wasn't. You have given no Scripture to say there wasn't. You simply contradict yourself.
They are sinners because they are in Adam not because they sin.
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
I explained the Greek tense in a past post in this forum about the word sinned.
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation;
Notice, condemnation is not because we sin. Condemnation is because one man sinned therefore we all sinned.
All are already condemned, and those who were alive before the law will be judged just like those who never heard of the law of God. They will be judged by their conscience. Those who know the law will be judged by the law, but we are condemned because of being in Adam.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
The problem is that the same verse (18) that says by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation says EVEN SO by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.
If Adam's sin is unconditionally imputed to us, then the words EVEN SO would say Christ's righteousess is unconditionally imputed to all men.
This would be universalism. Is that what you believe, that ALL MEN will be saved?
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
Yes you are absolutely correct!! However not all men are in Christ. We are born in Adam and we must be born again to be in Christ. It is who we are born to. Adams sin is unconditionally imputed to us because we are ALL in him from birth. Christ's righteousness is imputed to all men who are in Him. That which connects us is birth. That is why you must be born again.
You see, that is the problem with Augustine's error of interpreting vs. 12 to say Adam's sin is unconditionally imputed to all men. When you get to verse 18 you would be forced to interpret it the same way. If Adam's sin is unconditionally imputed to all men, then also Christ's righteousness must be unconditionally imputed to all men. This in fact is what led to Universalism.
However, if Rom 5:12 is interpreted to say death passes upon men conditionally because all men have sinned their own sin, then the problem is removed. Then vs. 18 is properly interpreted to show that the free gift of justification is conditionally imputed to those that believe. This does not contradict many scriptures that show many men will perish.
You can't change the meanings of words in the same verse. If condemnation came upon ALL MEN, then the free gift comes upon ALL MEN.
You also cannot say that condemnation is unconditional, but the free gift of justification isconditional. The words EVEN SO show both statements should be treated equally.
You keep bringing up Augustine. I really could care less about how Augustine interprets a passage. I have never read anything he wrote. If you know the Greek then you have to know that when a passage deals with two thing that are connected then that which connects them has to be used to interpret both parts.
In this case the connection is who we are connected to by birth. Every person connected to Adam, and that is by birth, is condemned. Every person who is connected to Christ is saved and that to is by birth.
1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Does this passage say all men will be made alive in Christ? Born Again.
Just asking?
1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Does this passage say all men will be made alive in Christ? Born Again.
Just asking?
And if you do even a little research, you will find that Greek scholars say Rom 5:12 does not say we sinned in Adam. Do some research and see for yourself.
You may never have studied Augustine, but you have been taught his error. He interpreted from a flawed Latin text (not Greek) that interpreted vs. 12 to say
and so death passed upon all men, IN WHOM all sinned.
IN WHOM is error, it is not in the Greek. The Greek says either
and so death passed upon all men FOR THAT all have sinned
or
and so death passed upon all men BECAUSE THAT all have sinned.
Look it up for yourself, I am not making this up, you can find many articles. Even scholars who support OS admit Rom 5:12 does not support Augustine's interpretation.
And whether you realize it or not, you got this from Augustine, he was the FIRST to argue OS from Rom 5:12. That is a historical FACT.
I keep giving you such Scripture and you keep ignoring it.Anytime the bible refers to law it is always speaking of the law of Moses. There are no exceptions.
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
There was no law from Adam to Moses. If you have a passage that calls something else the law then give it.
There are several important points to properly understanding this verse.
#1 This is the one and only time the term "in Adam" is used in scripture. Don't take my word for it, do a search and see for yourself.
#2 This is speaking of physical death, not spiritual. The theme of 1 Cor 15 is the resurrection of our physical bodies.
#3 It says "in Christ". This is used often in scripture and ONLY applies to believers.
#4 It says in Adam "all die", it does not say all are dead. You must be alive to die. This is speaking of our physical bodies.
So, this has been misinterpreted by many. It does not say we are dead in Adam spiritually as many falsely teach.
Can you read???? I don't care about Augustine!! He is nothing to me in regards to what he believed or taught. There no difference in the meaning my friend. All sinned in the past because of pone man. If death passed on all men then who caused that death? ADAM!! If all sinned and the proof is death that was passed on them then who linked them to sinning? ADAM!
You are confusing spiritual death and physical death. Men physically die because of the curse which even extends to animal life. Adam took 930 years to die physical death, but he died spiritual death IN THE DAY he sinned.
Paul is not speaking of physical death in Rom 5, all you have to do is look at the terms he used, he is speaking of judgment, condemnation, justification, righteousness, etc...
Read Ezekiel 18, God repeatedly says men will die for their own individual sins, the son shall not BEAR THE INIQUITY of his father or vice versa.
Original Sin is wrong because it teaches we bear Adam's sin and directly contradicts God's word.
On that day he became spiritually dead, separated from God.Would you agree with me that Adam the day he ate the fruit became,
dead in trespasses and sins? That is he that day did not totally die but became subject to, dying thou shall surely die.
Did that mean on the day he breathed his list he would be totally dead?
On that day he became spiritually dead, separated from God.
In the future he would die physically. That would be a result of the curse, the entire course of nature set in motion under the second law of Thermodynamics. Everything would tend to decay and ultimate death.
In the day thou eatest thereof of thou shalt surely die. He did; spiritually.
Your question makes no sense. Creation took place long ago, and Adam lived to be 930 years.Concerning Mr Adam, in your opinion what is the status on 9/8/2011 of
what was formed from the dust of the earth, of the breath of life that was breathed into what was formed from the dust of the earth and the status of what became from those two being joined together, the living soul?