Death penalty for fellow Christians

[canadyjd]

Would you support the execution of a person that:

1. Was guilty of murder (100%... no doubt)
....and....
2. Was a fellow Christian (100%...no doubt) that God was using the further the cause of Christ in the world.

Please feel free to state the reasons for your position.

peace to youraying:

 

[th1bill]

Would you support the execution of a person that:

1. Was guilty of murder (100%... no doubt)
....and....
2. Was a fellow Christian (100%...no doubt) that God was using the further the cause of Christ in the world.

Please feel free to state the reasons for your position.

peace to youraying:

Without reading your post I answered yes, all the while thinking that if he/she had committed murder the scriptures call for exactly that punishment. In recent years we had a woman on Death Row for murdering an elderly couple with a pick-ax and she, for all I could tell, had accepted Christ for her Redeemer and the Liberal Christians (oxymoron) went crazy trying to get her off Death Row.

The young lady was very content to lay on the gurney and be put to death... she knew she had committed a crime worthy of Death and she knew that Christ had forgiven her, all of her sins. I was busy in Prison Ministry, The Glory Bound Express, and the Liberals sent me a few pieces of their literature to solicit my support and I refused.

About the same time a man we called Smiling Mike was about to come up for parole for shooting a Police Office, at point blank, in the head and murdering him. Mike committed his murder during the moratorium on the Death Penalty and received a Life Sentence. He had over 37 years behind bars, had become a remarkable Christian in that time and I had no problem with his release nor with her death. You see, without the death penalty for murder, there is no deterrent for the crime. In Mike´s case, God saw to it that he would be release, many others God saw to it they were removed from this world, saved or lost!

It all comes down to one thing... will you obey God or will you sin unto death?

 

[freeatlast]

Without reading your post I answered yes, all the while thinking that if he/she had committed murder the scriptures call for exactly that punishment. In recent years we had a woman on Death Row for murdering an elderly couple with a pick-ax and she, for all I could tell, had accepted Christ for her Redeemer and the Liberal Christians (oxymoron) went crazy trying to get her off Death Row.

The young lady was very content to lay on the gurney and be put to death... she knew she had committed a crime worthy of Death and she knew that Christ had forgiven her, all of her sins. I was busy in Prison Ministry, The Glory Bound Express, and the Liberals sent me a few pieces of their literature to solicit my support and I refused.

About the same time a man we called Smiling Mike was about to come up for parole for shooting a Police Office, at point blank, in the head and murdering him. Mike committed his murder during the moratorium on the Death Penalty and received a Life Sentence. He had over 37 years behind bars, had become a remarkable Christian in that time and I had no problem with his release nor with her death. You see, without the death penalty for murder, there is no deterrent for the crime. In Mike´s case, God saw to it that he would be release, many others God saw to it they were removed from this world, saved or lost!

It all comes down to one thing... will you obey God or will you sin unto death?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[freeatlast]

Would you support the execution of a person that:

1. Was guilty of murder (100%... no doubt)
....and....
2. Was a fellow Christian (100%...no doubt) that God was using the further the cause of Christ in the world.

Please feel free to state the reasons for your position.

peace to youraying:

Being a Christian is not a get out of jail free card. If someone is found guilty of murder they should get the death penalty based on God's command. The judicial system has no business in the mercy business as they are suppose to be about justice. By the way under our system it is not 100%. If they are found guilty beyond reasonable doubt then they should be executed. Today they have plenty of time to get right with the Lord before the sentence is carried out.

 

[canadyjd]

... In recent years we had a woman on Death Row for murdering an elderly couple with a pick-ax and she, for all I could tell, had accepted Christ for her Redeemer and the Liberal Christians (oxymoron) went crazy trying to get her off Death Row. The young lady was very content to lay on the gurney and be put to death...

I remember Carla Faye Tucker. I remember she said she wanted to live and continue to minister for Christ. I remember her asking for mercy. She was content, yes. But she also wanted to live.

It is too bad so few fellow Christians showed her any mercy. Maybe they were afraid somebody would call them a "liberal" if they followed the command of their Lord Jesus Christ and showed mercy with perfect patience.

About the same time a man we called Smiling Mike was about to come up for parole for shooting a Police Office... In Mike´s case, God saw to it that he would be release, many others God saw to it they were removed from this world, saved or lost!

So.. you are saying God doesn't need our help to put someone to death... or to set them free...? We just need to ask ourselves what kind of attitude we are going to have toward these people.

It all comes down to one thing... will you obey God or will you sin unto death?

We all "sin unto death", my brother. If it is a matter of whether you will obey God or not, why not obey the command of Jesus Christ to show mercy with perfect patience to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul?

peace to youraying:

 

[freeatlast]

I remember Carla Faye Tucker. I remember she said she wanted to live and continue to minister for Christ. I remember her asking for mercy. She was content, yes. But she also wanted to live.

It is too bad so few fellow Christians showed her any. Maybe they were afraid somebody would call them a "liberal" if they followed the command of their Lord Jesus Christ and showed mercy with perfect patience.
So.. you are saying God doesn't need our help to put someone to death... or to set them free...? We just need to ask ourselves what kind of attitude we are going to have toward these people.
We all "sin unto death", my brother. If it is a matter of whether you will obey God or not, why not obey the command of Jesus Christ to show mercy with perfect patience to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul?

peace to youraying:

I fail to understand why the death of Miss Tucker is a problem. She got a promotion and I can assure you that today she would not want to return and is thanking God for her execution. Her death was a blessing so why be so cruel and want to withhold her blessing? Also it was obedience to the word of God. So it is a win win situation. It is too bad that some who claim to be Christians do not want to obey God in this matter and shower the Christian with the blessing of going home. I pray that their hearts would soften and obey the Lord and give the blessing. Peace to you raying:

 

[canadyjd]

Being a Christian is not a get out of jail free card.

I never said it was. As I stated before, the choices are not "kill them" or "set them free".

If someone is found guilty of murder they should get the death penalty based on God's command.

Based on God's command, Christians should show mercy with perfect patience with the worst of sinners. Support for the death penalty is contrary to that command.

The judicial system has no business in the mercy business as they are suppose to be about justice.

Christians have no business in the killing business as they are suppose to follow the example of their Lord and obey His command to show mercy with perfect patience with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul.

...Today they have plenty of time to get right with the Lord before the sentence is carried out.

It is more about us (as Christians) getting it right with the Lord. We are suppose to be different from the world and follow His example of mercy with perfect patience.

peace to youraying:

 

[freeatlast]

[/FONT]I never said it was. As I stated before, the choices are not "kill them" or "set them free". Based on God's command, Christians should show mercy with perfect patience with the worst of sinners. Support for the death penalty is contrary to that command.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT] Christians have no business in the killing business as they are suppose to follow the example of their Lord and obey His command to show mercy with perfect patience with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul.
It is more about us (as Christians) getting it right with the Lord. We are suppose to be different from the world and follow His example of mercy with perfect patience.

peace to youraying:

Yes you are right we are suppose to be different then the world. We are to obey the Lord and He has commanded the death penalty for murder and other things as well. You don't think that just some people who claim to be Christians are against the death penalty I hope. Most who stand against it are not believers so you are in fact going with the flow of the world not with God.

 

[canadyjd]

I fail to understand why the death of Miss Tucker is a problem. ... Her death was a blessing so why be so cruel and want to withhold her blessing?... It is too bad that some who claim to be Christians do not want to obey God in this matter and shower the Christian with the blessing of going home.

Her death demonstrated a lack of Christlikeness among many of those who claim to be Christians, who profess His name but fail to imitate Him or follow His commands to show mercy with perfect patience and to "love one another". How can you demonstrate love for someone by supporting their execution?

It is amazing that you liken your support for the execution of a fellow believer in Jesus Christ to showering "the Christian with the blessing of going home". So sad.:tear:

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

Yes you are right we are suppose to be different then the world. We are to obey the Lord and He has commanded the death penalty for murder and other things as well.

He has commanded Christians follow His example of mercy with perfect patience with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul.

You don't think that just some people who claim to be Christians are against the death penalty I hope. Most who stand against it are not believers so you are in fact going with the flow of the world not with God.

I stand with my Savior and follow His example as He commanded I do.

Show me proof that "most who stand against it are not believers". There are about a billion Muslims who support the death penalty. The death penalty exists all communist countries that have very high populations of athiests. Those groups alone make up about 3-4 billion people. That is more than half the population of the planet... i.e. "most".


It seems you find yourself standing side by side with unbelievers, the Muslims and the Communists, in your support for the death penalty.

peace to youraying:

 

[freeatlast]

Her death demonstrated a lack of Christlikeness among many of those who claim to be Christians, who profess His name but fail to imitate Him or follow His commands to show mercy with perfect patience and to "love one another". How can you demonstrate love for someone by supporting their execution?[/FONT][/FONT]

It is amazing that you liken your support for the execution of a fellow believer in Jesus Christ to showering "the Christian with the blessing of going home". So sad.:tear:

peace to youraying:

No her execution showed the love for God and His word as He commands the death penalty. Standing against the death penalty shows the disregard for God and His word. God showed her mercy by allowing her into heaven just like he does with any of us who get there so she got what she deserved under justice and got mercy also and is now praiseing God for His wisdom with the death penalty. That is what we are to show.

Let me ask you something. You keep claiming that you and those who reject the death penalty are showing love and mercy. Do you go into the jails and prisons of the condemned and share with them the gospel of mercy before they are executed?

 

[Crabtownboy]

I feel the pool needed another choice, I am never in favor of executions.

I am against them primarily because there are innocent people on death row and to execute an innocent person, IMHO, is an unforgivable travesty of justice.

 

[freeatlast]

I feel the pool needed another choice, I am never in favor of executions.

I am against them primarily because there are innocent people on death row and to execute an innocent person, IMHO, is an unforgivable travesty of justice.

Then I assume that you do support the Lord in His command for the death penalty is someone is proven 100% guilty since there would be no travesty of justice, correct?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Then I assume that you do support the Lord in His command for the death penalty is someone is proven 100% guilty since there would be no travesty of justice, correct?

I support Christ when he said, "Do unto others as ye would have them do to you."

How often is any conviction 100%? How often is anything in life 100%?

Isn't "life without parole" a death sentence ... and under our system it costs less than executions.

A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)
In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
(2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)
In Maryland death penalty cases cost 3 times more than non-death penalty cases, or $3 million for a single case.
(Urban Institute, The Cost of the Death Penalty in Maryland, March 2008)
In California the current sytem costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost

Executions are a very poor use of our limited monetary resources.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes; IMO, the 'sin unto death' of 1 Jn 5:16,17 is relevant to this very topic.

 

[freeatlast]

I support Christ when he said, "Do unto others as ye would have them do to you."

How often is any conviction 100%? How often is anything in life 100%?

Isn't "life without parole" a death sentence ... and under our system it costs less than executions.

We obey the Lord also in that as well as His command for the death penalty. The Lord has never given a single command at the expense of another. So that is not what I asked you.You stated that your objection to the death penalty was because some people are innocent and I think that is an admirable position. In fact even those of us who believe in obeying the Lord on this have the same heart that we do not want a single person executed who is innocent.

We also know we have a command and so this is why we have the appeals process to do all we can to weed out error. Just because there is a very small possibility of sentencing an innocent person does not mean that after we have done all we can to get the truth we can disobey the command.
Also your assumption that it is rarely 100% is incorrect. It is almost always 100% proven with no doubt at all or they get life. In fact the law has become so strict today that it is almost required or the person gets life instead of the death penalty.

So let me ask again. If a person was convicted under 100% proof would you agree to obey God's command for the death penalty? By the way if I murder I would agree to the death penalty as that is God's command. And no life in prison is not a death sentence because if it was then no one who is on death row would seek life. This is why it is called "LIFE" not death.

Lastly this is not about money. This is about obediance to the Lord. Can he be trusted? So what is your answer?

 

[freeatlast]

Yes; IMO, the 'sin unto death' of 1 Jn 5:16,17 is relevant to this very topic.

HUH?

 

[Crabtownboy]

So let me ask again. If a person was convicted under 100% proof would you agree to obey God's command for the death penalty? By the way if I murder I would agree to the death penalty as that is God's command. And no life in prison is not a death sentence because if it was then no one who is on death row would seek life. This is why it is called "LIFE" not death.

In that case I would support life without parole and that is a death sentence, a slow one. Two reasons that I think of at the moment:

1. The person might actually do good in the prison and leads others to Christ. One of the most amazing stories I have heard was from a young Chinese woman from Mongolia. Her grandfather was thrown in jail during the Cultural Revolution. He died in prison a few years later, but during that time he won other prisoners and several prison guards to Christ. He was innocent of anything we would consider a crime, but this is an example of how God can use Christians in any situation.
2. It gives them plenty of time to think about their crime.


I am not convinced it is God's command. There are many commands we ignore and no one seems to get excited. But let's say just for the sake of conversation it is God's command .... a life without parole is a death sentence and thus follows his command.

 

[freeatlast]

In that case I would support life without parole and that is a death sentence, a slow one. Two reasons that I think of at the moment:

1. The person might actually do good in the prison and leads others to Christ. One of the most amazing stories I have heard was from a young Chinese woman from Mongolia. Her grandfather was thrown in jail during the Cultural Revolution. He died in prison a few years later, but during that time he won other prisoners and several prison guards to Christ. He was innocent of anything we would consider a crime, but this is an example of how God can use Christians in any situation.
2. It gives them plenty of time to think about their crime.


I am not convinced it is God's command. There are many commands we ignore and no one seems to get excited. But let's say just for the sake of conversation it is God's command .... a life without parole is a death sentence and thus follows his command.

No, there may be many commands that you ignore, but none the less thank you for the response.

 

[kyredneck]

HUH?

Why are you confused? You applauded th1bill's use of the term from 1 Jn 5:16,17:

....It all comes down to one thing... will you obey God or will you sin unto death?

How is my take on it any different than his?