Quakes topping 6.0 hit near Japan, Cuba

[freeatlast]

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.....
http://www.chron.com/news/article/Quakes-topping-6-0-hit-near-Japan-Cuba-2171807.php

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.....
http://www.chron.com/news/article/Quakes-topping-6-0-hit-near-Japan-Cuba-2171807.php

Or. modern techniques for detecting earthquakes make us aware when we never would have known before.

 

[freeatlast]

Or. modern techniques for detecting earthquakes make us aware when we never would have known before.

I suppose that is one way to dispel the notion that we are seeing the Lord's words starting to come to pass, but better techniques does not explain "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences" which we are also seeing.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I suppose that is one way to dispel the notion that we are seeing the Lord's words starting to come to pass, but better techniques does not explain "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences" which we are also seeing.

And have been since well before that prophecy was uttered.

 

[freeatlast]

And have been since well before that prophecy was uttered.

Not true. Only when all things are happening at the same time as we see today.

 

[Crabtownboy]

There is nothing new about large earthquakes. As stated by another with modern detection methods we detect more today than at any time in history. Nothing surprising about that.

Check this link for a list of the largest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes
[Note: one of the largest was in 869 a.d.]

China's most devastating earthquake was in 1556 and killed 830,000 people in Shaanxi Provence. The population of China at that time was much less then today. Think of what that might mean.

In 132 a.d. the Chinese inventor Chang Heng invented a neat and beautiful "machine" to detect earthquakes. Check this link out:

http://0.tqn.com/d/inventors/1/7/-/9/chinese_seis.gif

The frogs mouth in the direction of the earthquake dropped the ball into the cup. In this way authorities could tell in which direction the earthquake came from. Pretty clever IMHO. Also, IMHO, earthquakes must have happened frequently else the need forsuch a machine would not have led to its invention.

I suppose that is one way to dispel the notion that we are seeing the Lord's words starting to come to pass, but better techniques does not explain "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences" which we are also seeing.

Nations have risen against nations and kingdoms against kingdoms as long as we have recorded history. There is nothing new in this. There have been famines and pestilences as far back as history is recorded also ... remember the Black Plague in Europe that killed untold numbers of people. There are plague memorials in every town I have visited in the Czech Republic. There is nothing in modern history to even come close to such a pestilence as the Black Plague.

The worst famine in Russia was between 1601 and 1603. Remember the Potato Famine in Ireland? China has had numerous famines throughout history as have other countries.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Not true. Only when all things are happening at the same time as we see today.

Wars, famines, and pestilence are new?

 

[webdog]

And have been since well before that prophecy was uttered.

So essentially the prophecy is moot as it's the same old, same old?

 

[webdog]

Or. modern techniques for detecting earthquakes make us aware when we never would have known before.

...which couldn't be part of the prophecy of detecting such, which ironically also fulfills Daniel's prophecy?

 

[Crabtownboy]

So essentially the prophecy is moot as it's the same old, same old?

I make the same prophecy and I am right. Does that make me a prophet?

Perhaps instead of being so literal on this one we might say that the prophet was saying "You folks are going to have trouble no matter when you live, even to the end of times." After all Christ has been coming ever since he ascended into heaven. Remember time means nothing to God but so much to us.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I make the same prophecy and I am right. Does that make me a prophet?

Perhaps instead of being so literal on this one we might say that the prophet was saying "You folks are going to have trouble no matter when you live, even to the end of times." After all Christ has been coming ever since he ascended into heaven. Remember time means nothing to God but so much to us.

Could not have said it any better

 

[webdog]

I make the same prophecy and I am right. Does that make me a prophet?

Perhaps instead of being so literal on this one we might say that the prophet was saying "You folks are going to have trouble no matter when you live, even to the end of times." After all Christ has been coming ever since he ascended into heaven. Remember time means nothing to God but so much to us.

On what basis do you claim it as non-literal, and why even claim His return to be literal (or the rest of Matthew 24 for that matter)?

Also, guessing and random statements are not prophecy. Are you minimizing the very words of our Lord?

 

[preachinjesus]

I was reading some Cyprian last night (yesterday was the anniversary of his martyrdom historically) and noticed that even in c. AD 250 he was saying the end was near.

Well if it is so be it. I'm guessing we'll still be here talking about the same thing next year, and years afterwards.

A couple of earthquakes does not a prophecy fulfill.

 

[Crabtownboy]

On what basis do you claim it as non-literal, and why even claim His return to be literal (or the rest of Matthew 24 for that matter)?

If it is literal then we have been in the end-times since the prophecy which was given in the OT as there have been wars, rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes and pestilential at all times since this prophecy. IMHO we have been in the end-times since Christ ascended into heaven.

Also, guessing and random statements are not prophecy. Are you minimizing the very words of our Lord?

It is not a random statement. So, I make is a prophecy and I will be right as as long as mankind lives on this planet there will be wars, rumor of wars, famine, pestilence and earthquakes.

Matthew 24:6-8:

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Note the last 5 words in 6, "the end is not yet." This holds for 7 also. And wars, earthquakes and pestilences are "the beginning of sorrows" for the people caught in them. This passage does not say this is a sign of the end. In fact it says the opposite.

Mark 13:7-10

7And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

8For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

Note again scripture says "but the end shall not be yet".

Luke 21:9-11 KJV

9But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

And remember Lluke 21:8 that warns against those who say the end is near.

8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”

The end is not our concern nor worry. Living the life he wants us to lead is the worry of today and everyday in our life.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I was reading some Cyprian last night (yesterday was the anniversary of his martyrdom historically) and noticed that even in c. AD 250 he was saying the end was near.

Well if it is so be it. I'm guessing we'll still be here talking about the same thing next year, and years afterwards.

A couple of earthquakes does not a prophecy fulfill.

Martin Luther too was convinced that the end was near. As was St Patrick.

I think that is what the Lord wants, a constant imminency so that we 'occupy till he comes.'

 

[webdog]

If it is literal then we have been in the end-times since the prophecy which was given in the OT as there have been wars, rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes and pestilential at all times since this prophecy. IMHO we have been in the end-times since Christ ascended into heaven.

These are unique occurrences prophesied, though, not every day occurrences. Where do you get Christ was only speaking of regular occurrences?

It is not a random statement. So, I make is a prophecy and I will be right as as long as mankind lives on this planet there will be wars, rumor of wars, famine, pestilence and earthquakes.

So you believe Christ was merely stating the obvious, and not giving us a prophecy? You are in the minority in this view. Stating a fact does not equate to prophecy. I can say there will be deaths this year, it will rain, and a plane will crash...and it doesn't make me a prophet, nor what I'm saying prophecy.

I agree the end is not yet...the Bible says these are the beginnings of birth pangs. Deliverance is the end.

The end is not our concern nor worry. Living the life he wants us to lead is the worry of today and everyday in our life.

False dichotomy...it's not an "either / or" proposition. We are commanded to keep watch and be ready, too.

 

[Crabtownboy]

These are unique occurrences prophesied, though, not every day occurrences. Where do you get Christ was only speaking of regular occurrences?
So you believe Christ was merely stating the obvious, and not giving us a prophecy? You are in the minority in this view. Stating a fact does not equate to prophecy. I can say there will be deaths this year, it will rain, and a plane will crash...and it doesn't make me a prophet, nor what I'm saying prophecy.

I agree the end is not yet...the Bible says these are the beginnings of birth pangs. Deliverance is the end.

False dichotomy...it's not an "either / or" proposition. We are commanded to keep watch and be ready, too.

Read my post quoting from the gospels.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I suppose that is one way to dispel the notion that we are seeing the Lord's words starting to come to pass, but better techniques does not explain "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences" which we are also seeing.

This whole approach seems to imply that we are the first generation that has the right to look forward to the imminent return of Christ. Were other generations wrong to look forward to an 'any moment' return because there were not enough earthquakes, famines, or wars?

 

[Jerome]

From a 1692 sermon by Benjamin Keach, prominent signer of the 1689 London Baptist Confession:

What amazing Earthquakes have there been lately in divers places, have not we in England, in London, felt some of it, (as well as most Nations in Europe) tho' not like to that in Jamaica, and some other places? are not these fearful Tokens and Signs of Gods Wrath and Indignation? are they not Harbingers and Presages of what is coming upon the World, and of the end thereof?
. . . .
no doubt but the day of Judgment and End of the World, or Coming of Christ is very near; for he hath foretold as Signs thereof, that there shall be great Earthquakes in divers places.

 

[webdog]

This whole approach seems to imply that we are the first generation that has the right to look forward to the imminent return of Christ.

Why?

Were other generations wrong to look forward to an 'any moment' return because there were not enough earthquakes, famines, or wars?

No they weren't wrong, they were told to actually. Fact remains they weren't known as they are today, and even the equipment used to detect them could be part of the "divers" acknowledgement of their occurrences.