Are There Such as "carnal" Christians?

[freeatlast]

What "commandments" are these?
The Pauline Epistles for the Gentiles don't list any "commandments".

Are you serious, you really need to ask what commandments? If you go through the NT you will see that every commandment that is in what is referred to the 10 commandments is listed except the Sabbath law. Jesus gave the commandments.

 

[beameup]

Are you serious, you really need to ask what commandments? If you go through the NT you will see that every commandment that is in what is referred to the 10 commandments is listed except the Sabbath law. Jesus gave the commandments.

Sorry, I'm a Gentile. I have no Law except the Law of Agape. 1 Cor 13:4-7
There are 613 "Laws" (Commandments) in Judaism: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death [Mosaic Law].
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth [in Christ].

PS: I understand that 7th Day Adventist believe they must follow the Law since I suppose that they feel that they are somehow Jews.

 

[revmwc]

See this is where you are confused. The bible says this, not me;

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not (practice) commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

So I believe what scripture says and you do not. No Christian can revert back to sin as you claim. It is impossible.

I see you refute Paul and Peter and all the O.T. examples of believers living sinful lives and yet being called just and righteous men. Unless you believe Lot, David and Solomon were not believers. Then you must believe the Corinthians whom Paul calls carnal were not believers. The man living in a sinful relationship in Corinth which Paul said was saved yet he was living in sin and the Corinthians were proud of him living that way.

2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)

Romans 8: 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

While Paul says the man is saved he also says he should die the sin unto death by God turning such a one over to satan for destruction of his flesh but notice the end of verse 5 that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. The man was saved and would remain saved yet he was living in sin and the church didn't condemn him for it.

With all this scripture saying a believer can revert back to a sinful life you continue to say they can't and say scripture doesn't say they can yet here is scripture after scripture that says they can.

 

[DHK]

You added the words "very carefully".

They weren't there prior.

And you know it. But that's OK with me, I know why.

This isn't the first time you've gone in and edited out things you've said. You know that as well.

Here it is. Please pay attention. My original post was in post #59

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1736305&postcount=59

You obviously haven't read Acts 20:14-31 very carefully. Local churches are entrusted to pastors. They are the undershepherds and someday will give account to the Great Shepherd for those given to their trust.

--bolding mine.
This second quote, post #60, you quote me:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1736307&postcount=60

Originally Posted by DHK
You obviously haven't read Acts 20:14-31 very carefully. Local churches are entrusted to pastors. They are the undershepherds and someday will give account to the Great Shepherd for those given to their trust.

No need for the slight about not reading a passage as it is unecessary behavior for a believer.

Obviously you over-look what the Lord told Peter; they are His sheep.

Those given to their trust are His, not yours.

Thus, no matter how many proof-texts you use, you're still incorrect.

In post #65, your post again, this is what you say:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1736342&postcount=65

That's funny, the "very carefully" part all of a sudden "appears," both in what you said, and in where I quoted you.

Not the first time I saw this.

Now this false allegation is all yours. It is plain to see. Why do you continue like this?

 

[DHK]

Are you serious, you really need to ask what commandments? If you go through the NT you will see that every commandment that is in what is referred to the 10 commandments is listed except the Sabbath law. Jesus gave the commandments.

In some ways the NT commands are more difficult to keep than the OT commands.

For example, Are you an enemy of God?
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4)

If you are in any way a friend of the world, God says that you are his enemy. What do you think?

 

[quantumfaith]

Here it is. Please pay attention. My original post was in post #59
--bolding mine.
This second quote, post #60, you quote me:
In post #65, your post again, this is what you say: Now this false allegation is all yours. It is plain to see. Why do you continue like this?

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[freeatlast]

Sorry, I'm a Gentile. I have no Law except the Law of Agape. 1 Cor 13:4-7
There are 613 "Laws" (Commandments) in Judaism: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death [Mosaic Law].
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth [in Christ].

PS: I understand that 7th Day Adventist believe they must follow the Law since I suppose that they feel that they are somehow Jews.

[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[freeatlast]

I see you refute Paul and Peter and all the O.T. examples of believers living sinful lives and yet being called just and righteous men. Unless you believe Lot, David and Solomon were not believers. Then you must believe the Corinthians whom Paul calls carnal were not believers. The man living in a sinful relationship in Corinth which Paul said was saved yet he was living in sin and the Corinthians were proud of him living that way.

2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)

Romans 8: 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

While Paul says the man is saved he also says he should die the sin unto death by God turning such a one over to satan for destruction of his flesh but notice the end of verse 5 that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. The man was saved and would remain saved yet he was living in sin and the church didn't condemn him for it.

With all this scripture saying a believer can revert back to a sinful life you continue to say they can't and say scripture doesn't say they can yet here is scripture after scripture that says they can.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not (practice) commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he (practice) cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[preacher4truth]

Here it is. Please pay attention. My original post was in post #59
--bolding mine.
This second quote, post #60, you quote me:
In post #65, your post again, this is what you say: Now this false allegation is all yours. It is plain to see. Why do you continue like this?

I saw your original post. It's been changed.

You added the words "very carefully."

 

[revmwc]

No, if he feels it is His flock he will. The Biblical standard is to be observed, not your opinion or ideology on the matter.

Having charge over them does not make them his. We are only managers/stewards, not owners. Of anything.

Your take is unbiblical in all aspects.

You're leaning upon your own understanding here.

Then your would never say your son or your daughter is yours correct, because God gave you charge of them but they belong to God. Your home is not your home because God gave you charge ofthem but they are His.
A pastor says the flock God gave me to teach and lead is his but They still belong to God. Everything is God so if you say my house or my children or my vehicle then you are wrong for calling them that by what you are saying. God owns everything.

 

[revmwc]

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not (practice) commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he (practice) cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So you continue to challenge the authority of Paul, Peter and John who say we as believers can revert back to sin. Scriptural references after reference and you continue to not believe what they wrote.

Let's try it again and have you give how you see these verses.

2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)

Was Lot just and righteous or an unbeliever?

Romans 8: 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Paul say if ye live after the flesh ye shall die, is the ye believers or unbelievers?
What class of if is used on the if ye and again is the ye a believer or an unbeliever?

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Was the man saved and living in gross sin or was he an unbeliever.

Then 1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Again is John speaking to believers and what is the class of the word "if" here?
Votice verse 6 who is the "we" believer or unbeliever? What is the class of "if"?

Here are the classes if you missed them.

1st Class = Positive - True
2nd Class = Negative - False
3rd Class = Neutral - Maybe
4th Class = Wish List

 

[revmwc]

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not (practice) commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he (practice) cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The person that says he knows God but doesn't keep His commandments is lieing, so what commandment is he not keeping? How believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and though shalt be saved, or Whosoever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved, whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have ecerlasting Life are those commandments?

The person that commits sin is of the devil are you saying you don't commit sins, I said that was your claim earlier so if you commit sins are you of the devil or of God?

Whsoever is born of God doth not commit sin or practice sin why because His seed (Christ seed, the Holy Spirit) remains in that person, so his sin is not charged to him but to Christ. He cannot continue in sin why is that, because God will eventually turn that one over to Satan for destruction of the flesh and die the sin unto death.

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

Do you hate someone either in church or on this board or at work? If so you are in darkness and are living in sin. We are not to even hold grudges against folks yet how many believers leave a church because they were offended by something someone did and want set foot in that church because of that person, guess what they are in teh wrong according to John not just that but they are continuing in sin that what John says.

 

[freeatlast]

So you continue to challenge the authority of Paul, Peter and John who say we as believers can revert back to sin. Scriptural references after reference and you continue to not believe what they wrote.

Let's try it again and have you give how you see these verses.

2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)

Was Lot just and righteous or an unbeliever?

Romans 8: 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Paul say if ye live after the flesh ye shall die, is the ye believers or unbelievers?
What class of if is used on the if ye and again is the ye a believer or an unbeliever?

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Was the man saved and living in gross sin or was he an unbeliever.

Then 1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Again is John speaking to believers and what is the class of the word "if" here?
Votice verse 6 who is the "we" believer or unbeliever? What is the class of "if"?

Here are the classes if you missed them.

1st Class = Positive - True
2nd Class = Negative - False
3rd Class = Neutral - Maybe
4th Class = Wish List

No I just believe what is written.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[freeatlast]

The person that says he knows God but doesn't keep His commandments is lieing, so what commandment is he not keeping? How believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and though shalt be saved, or Whosoever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved, whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have ecerlasting Life are those commandments?

The person that commits sin is of the devil are you saying you don't commit sins, I said that was your claim earlier so if you commit sins are you of the devil or of God?

Whsoever is born of God doth not commit sin or practice sin why because His seed (Christ seed, the Holy Spirit) remains in that person, so his sin is not charged to him but to Christ. He cannot continue in sin why is that, because God will eventually turn that one over to Satan for destruction of the flesh and die the sin unto death.

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

Do you hate someone either in church or on this board or at work? If so you are in darkness and are living in sin. We are not to even hold grudges against folks yet how many believers leave a church because they were offended by something someone did and want set foot in that church because of that person, guess what they are in teh wrong according to John not just that but they are continuing in sin that what John says.

No I do not hate anyone. My guess is what you are doing is trying to find a way to justify your sin. I believe what the scripture says.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[mandym]

So you continue to challenge the authority of Paul, Peter and John who say we as believers can revert back to sin. Scriptural references after reference and you continue to not believe what they wrote.

Why is it necessary to post in this manner. There is no truth to this and it is quite a dishonest post. Just because he interprets scripture differently than you do does not add up to this.

 

[revmwc]

No I do not hate anyone. My guess is what you are doing is trying to find a way to justify your sin. I believe what the scripture says.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

First understand something I confess my sins as 1 John 1:9 commands so your assumption that I am trying to justfy my sin is way off. I was just asking a question about scripture and if you in a general term for all hate your christian brother. In fact I practice 1 John 1:9 as it is written when I sin I confess immediately and keep going for God. Seems you might have a problem with judging folks but I am not sure of that God and you know your heart not me. Over and over you go to that one text as if it is the only answer. You have yet to tell me what you believe the others are saying in my post #91. I answered you about yours so how about it how do you see the verses I posted in #91?

 

[revmwc]

Why is it necessary to post in this manner. There is no truth to this and it is quite a dishonest post. Just because he interprets scripture differently than you do does not add up to this.

He hasn't interpreted the scripture I posted at all, what manner I was asking legitimate questions if I came across in a degrogatory manner that was not my intent. Not sure what manner you are refering too please let me know how I came across so I can correct the misconception. Thanks for pointing out whatever manner it is I came across.

 

[freeatlast]

First understand something I confess my sins as 1 John 1:9 commands so your assumption that I am trying to justfy my sin is way off. I was just asking a question about scripture and if you in a general term for all hate your christian brother. In fact I practice 1 John 1:9 as it is written when I sin I confess immediately and keep going for God. Seems you might have a problem with judging folks but I am not sure of that God and you know your heart not me. Over and over you go to that one text as if it is the only answer. You have yet to tell me what you believe the others are saying in my post #91. I answered you about yours so how about it how do you see the verses I posted in #91?

I am only stating scripture which I believe and have found true.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

By the way to confess our sins does nto mean to admit them and ask forgiveness.

Listen to this as this will explain what is being said above;
http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/BirthmarksofaBeliever.32.mp3

 

[revmwc]

I am only stating scripture which I believe and have found true.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

By the way to confess our sins does nto mean to admit them and ask forgiveness.

Listen to this as this will explain what is being said above;
http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/BirthmarksofaBeliever.32.mp3

The scripture I posted how do you see them? Are they part of scripture or are they not? How do you see them? One passages that says one thing and then others that say one can be do you discard or do you look at theose scriptures?

 

[freeatlast]

The scripture I posted how do you see them? Are they part of scripture or are they not? How do you see them? One passages that says one thing and then others that say one can be do you discard or do you look at theose scriptures?

If you have a particular verse or even a couple that you want clarification on please fell free to post them and I will try and respond. However I never respond to 5 or 10 verses as it takes too much time to explain them.