Did Job sin?

[12strings]

Job 1:22 - "In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong."
Job 2:10b - "In all this Job did not sin with his lips."

My question is: Did Job sin with his lips later in the book after these statements were made? Here are some points of clarification to keep us on track:

a. Of Course Job was not a sinless man, and had obviously sinned sometime in his past.

b. I am asking is there something(s) specifically that Job said or expressed that was/were sinful?

 

[Jeremiah2911]

Job 1:22 - "In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong."
Job 2:10b - "In all this Job did not sin with his lips."

My question is: Did Job sin with his lips later in the book after these statements were made? Here are some points of clarification to keep us on track:

a. Of Course Job was not a sinless man, and had obviously sinned sometime in his past.

b. I am asking is there something(s) specifically that Job said or expressed that was/were sinful?

Here are some notes from JFB:
10b In all this Job sinned not with his lips.

The Targum adds: but in his thoughts he already cherished sinful words. בשפתיו is certainly not undesignedly introduced here and omitted in Job 1:22. The temptation to murmur was now already at work within him, but he was its master, so that no murmur escaped him.

Maybe that's an answer? God knows our words even if they don't come out.

Musing for a moment: I've always thought it strange that Job nor his "friends" offered any prayers to God when his issues began? [not written]--I guess I could consider that a sin of omission? I personally think his denial of any wrong doing was a sin. He loses his self righteousness, however, when the Lord answers out of the whirlwind in Chapter 38

 

[righteousdude2]

Job's Only Sin, in My Opinion....

....Was not taking control over his loose lipped wife! He should have shut her up and reminded her of her proper place in the order of a wife in the pecking order of a Conservative Jewish marriage. :laugh:

 

[freeatlast]

Job 1:22 - "In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong."
Job 2:10b - "In all this Job did not sin with his lips."

My question is: Did Job sin with his lips later in the book after these statements were made? Here are some points of clarification to keep us on track:

a. Of Course Job was not a sinless man, and had obviously sinned sometime in his past.

b. I am asking is there something(s) specifically that Job said or expressed that was/were sinful?

The bible says;
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Can you name what comand he might have violated?

 

[12strings]

Are you suggesting that There were 2 sinless humans in all of history: Jesus the Christ, and Job?

 

[psalms109:31]

1 Samuel 2:12
[ Eli’s Wicked Sons ] Eli’s sons were scoundrels; they had no regard for the LORD.

1 Samuel 8
Israel Asks for a King
1 When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as Israel’s leaders.[Traditionally judges] 2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not follow his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.

Can we build such a great relationship with God and neglect our wife and children and by so doing not love them as we should?

Is it acceptable to do that?

Do you believe the way Job's wife and children ended up was part the fault of Job or they were just wicked and Job innocent?

 

[freeatlast]

Are you suggesting that There were 2 sinless humans in all of history: Jesus the Christ, and Job?

I asked you a question first. Answer mine and I will answer yours.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Job 1 and 2 were written before Job was tested. Read through what God said and how Job responded.

In chapter 38-41, God tell Job that he had no right to question God about what God had done then in ch. 42 Job responds

1 Then Job answered the LORD and said, 2 “I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted. 3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’ Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.”
4 ‘Hear, now, and I will speak; I will ask You, and You instruct me.’ 5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; But now my eye sees You;
6 Therefore I retract, And I repent in dust and ashes.”

Notice what Job considered his sin in verse 3. (1) He made statements about which he had no knowledge of. (2) He had refused to listen to what god had said to him.

If Job hadn't sinned in being self righteous, then why did he repent. God was still angrier with his 3 "friends" but Job repented and therefore he must have sinned.

 

[12strings]

From FreeatLast:

The bible says;
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Can you name what comand he might have violated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12strings
Are you suggesting that There were 2 sinless humans in all of history: Jesus the Christ, and Job?

I asked you a question first. Answer mine and I will answer yours.

Well actually, I asked the first question in the OP. But here goes...

1. I tend to agree with Mr. Tom Bryant about Job's words and repentance after Chapters 1 & 2. I Believe Job sinned in some of his words and attitude toward God, and therefore repented of them when God confronted him. The
statement that Job did not sin with his lips is not repeated near the end of the book.
That said, I believe he was right about not having a specific sin that caused his disasters...and I believe he also did a lot of things right when he was suffering, such as correcting those who suggested turning away from God, he actually turned to God, asking God to renew his fellowship.

2. I also agree with Rom. 3:23 - All have sinned"

 

[webdog]

Job 1 and 2 are dealing with Job not having sinned during the testing at the hands of Satan, not dealing with his heart, words and action post-events.

 

[freeatlast]

Job 1 and 2 were written before Job was tested. Read through what God said and how Job responded.

In chapter 38-41, God tell Job that he had no right to question God about what God had done then in ch. 42 Job responds

1 Then Job answered the LORD and said, 2 “I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted. 3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’ Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.”
4 ‘Hear, now, and I will speak; I will ask You, and You instruct me.’ 5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; But now my eye sees You;
6 Therefore I retract, And I repent in dust and ashes.”

Notice what Job considered his sin in verse 3. (1) He made statements about which he had no knowledge of. (2) He had refused to listen to what god had said to him.

If Job hadn't sinned in being self righteous, then why did he repent. God was still angrier with his 3 "friends" but Job repented and therefore he must have sinned.

There are no sins mentioned in those passages. Job is saying that He did not know. There is no sin involved. His repentance is the changing of his mind now that he has knowledge.

 

[freeatlast]

From FreeatLast:






Well actually, I asked the first question in the OP. But here goes...

1. I tend to agree with Mr. Tom Bryant about Job's words and repentance after Chapters 1 & 2. I Believe Job sinned in some of his words and attitude toward God, and therefore repented of them when God confronted him. The
statement that Job did not sin with his lips is not repeated near the end of the book.
That said, I believe he was right about not having a specific sin that caused his disasters...and I believe he also did a lot of things right when he was suffering, such as correcting those who suggested turning away from God, he actually turned to God, asking God to renew his fellowship.

2. I also agree with Rom. 3:23 - All have sinned"

You did not answer my question. I asked what command Job broke not if he was a sinner? We are all sinners because of our relationship with Adam. Where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 4:14 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

 

[psalms109:31]

Deuteronomy 4: 9
Only take heed to yourself, and diligently keep yourself, lest you forget the things your eyes have seen, and lest they depart from your heart all the days of your life. And teach them to your children and your grandchildren,10
especially concerning the day you stood before the LORD your God in Horeb, when the LORD said to me, ‘Gather the people to Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.’

Deuteronomy 6:7
You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.

Deuteronomy 11:19
You shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.

Proverbs 22:
6 Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

 

[Tom Bryant]

There are no sins mentioned in those passages. Job is saying that He did not know. There is no sin involved. His repentance is the changing of his mind now that he has knowledge.

Right...

 

[12strings]

You did not answer my question. I asked what command Job broke not if he was a sinner?

1. My answer is that Job sinned by doing the very thing Chapters 1-2 said he did not do at first: He charged God with wrong, with treating him in an unfair way. There are no commands in the book of Job that Job directly disobeys, but we don't know what commands God made known to Job before the book begins.

We are all sinners because of our relationship with Adam.

I'm still not clear as to whether you think Job actually sinned in his life or not.

Where there is no law there is no transgression.Romans 4:14 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

If you are interpreting this verse the way I think you are, then logically Cain did not sin by his jealousy, or even by killing Abel, since there was no Murder law given yet. What were the sins that the whole world was doing before Noah's flood? If there was no law yet, how could God charge them with being wicked?

 

[preacher4truth]

OK.

If Job is a type of Christ/an appearance of Christ then he never sinned.

If Job is a regular human like the rest of us, he falls under Romans 3:23.

The fallacy going around these days is that:

1) God doesn't give us commands we can't keep (well, He most certainly did do this, with His Law, something that Paul said none can bear).

2) We can live and obey all of God's commands w/o failure (which is heretical teaching due to the fact that if anyone says they are without sin, well, they're lying).

 

[Old Union Brother]

OK.

If Job is a type of Christ/an appearance of Christ then he never sinned.

If Job is a regular human like the rest of us, he falls under Romans 3:23.

The fallacy going around these days is that:

1) God doesn't give us commands we can't keep (well, He most certainly did do this, with His Law, something that Paul said none can bear).

2) We can live and obey all of God's commands w/o failure (which is heretical teaching due to the fact that if anyone says they are without sin, well, they're lying).

Good post..... I think we need a new thread on Job a type of Christ....

 

[freeatlast]

1. . There are no commands in the book of Job that Job directly disobeys, but we don't know what commands God made known to Job before the book begins.

So you base your beliefs on what you do not know instead of what you know?

 

[12strings]

FREEATLAST:

I am saying there are things we don't know, and so have to look elsewhere in the Bible for clarification.

I answered your question. How does your position fit with Romans 3:23?
--> Are you saying that Job was a man who never sinned his whole life, just like Jesus?


ALSO...

Originally Posted by preacher4truth:
If Job is a type of Christ/an appearance of Christ then he never sinned.
If Job is a regular human like the rest of us, he falls under Romans 3:23.

As far as Job being a type of Christ, I believe he was! ...in that he prefigured christ in some ways, as did King David, who was definitly not sinless.

If you mean by "type" that he was an OT incarnation of Christ who had a wife and kids and suffered some "pre-cross" suffering to teach us some things, then I would say there's no biblical warrant for beleiving that.

If you mean by "type" that the whole book of job is a parable, that it never actually happened, then I don't believe there is any biblical warrant for that either.

 

[preacher4truth]

FREEATLAST:

I am saying there are things we don't know, and so have to look elsewhere in the Bible for clarification.

I answered your question. How does your position fit with Romans 3:23?
--> Are you saying that Job was a man who never sinned his whole life, just like Jesus?


ALSO...


As far as Job being a type of Christ, I believe he was! ...in that he prefigured christ in some ways, as did King David, who was definitly not sinless.

If you mean by "type" that he was an OT incarnation of Christ who had a wife and kids and suffered some "pre-cross" suffering to teach us some things, then I would say there's no biblical warrant for beleiving that.

If you mean by "type" that the whole book of job is a parable, that it never actually happened, then I don't believe there is any biblical warrant for that either.

Nothing in what I've stated is saying or implying or believing that this was a parable. I believe him a real person and the book to be both historically accurate and theos-pneustos. You've come to that erroneous parable conclusion on your own. (I just love how folks on here are so ready and apt to attempt to state someone doesn't believe the Bible as literal &C). It's just prattle to do so.

So my point again is that if he is a regular human being, not an incarnation of Christ or however one would like to word it, or categorize it, then he falls under Romans 3:23.