freeatlast
New Member
You are stating a fact not answering the question.
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God's purpose in allowing Christian's to sin on earth
- Thread starter CF1
- Start date
You are stating a fact not answering the question.
convicted1
Guest
You are stating a fact not answering the question.
Well, the bible states that our lives are hid with Christ in God. We are not self-sufficient, and need Him to be our Guide. When we are saved, the Spirit will lead us into all truth. So, we need Him just the same, even after salvation. This shows us that we can not go it alone. If we do, we'll go "flop".
freeatlast
New Member
Well, the bible states that our lives are hid with Christ in God. We are not self-sufficient, and need Him to be our Guide. When we are saved, the Spirit will lead us into all truth. So, we need Him just the same, even after salvation. This shows us that we can not go it alone. If we do, we'll go "flop".
I am not sure if you do not have an answer and are just trying to seem pious by responding or you really do not understand. Your answer has nothing to do with the question.
"What might be God's sovereign purpose in allowing regenerated (born again) Christian's to sin?"
You keep giving a statement of fact about after we sin, not why God allows us to sin after we are saved consequently you don't answer to the question.
Well Brother, God has cleansed our souls, but not our flesh. The soul has been delivered from the "pains" of sin, but not the flesh. This verse came to mind:
1 Cor. 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Thanks for your diligent research for us on how the Spirit and the Flesh are different and distinct, which maybe helps understand this verse:
1 Cor. 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Maybe this verse gives light into why God allowed it this way.
If "flesh" were to "glory" in God's presence that would be bad, sin, prideful, arrogant, like Satan was.
God's consuming fire might burn us up or cast us out.
Our "flesh" or "indwelling sin" or "old nature" is so horrible to Holy God, that it can't stand in His presense.
Yet we need it to live here on earth. Just like there are weeds, and mosquitoes on earth, it's leftover from the fall.
God leaves all these fallen things in place, so that His Holiness and Glory stand in stark contrast to fallen things, resulting in praise and glory to Him.
Thus we see our indwelling sin, and our soul hates it, but we give God greater glory as we see his daily grace (not just at salvation but daily grace) given to us to have faith in obedience in confession, and God's repeated forgiveness, to see what we are when left to ourselves, our own strength, our own works without grace.
God has the sovereign right to let us sin as Christians. Just as God has the sovereign right to give Grace to undeserving sinners (enemies, blasphemers, idolaters, haters of God) who become supernaturally convicted of sin and repent.
Our sin, confession, and forgiveness, is like a daily echo and reminder of the original Grace that was given to us at salvation. It has a practical purpose to keep us in awe at God's grace, both at salvation, and in daily battles with the indwelling sin that our soul and spirit hates and battles.
Help me test and prove these thoughts from Scripture.
Maybe thats the problem. These are your thoughts. What about God's?What might be God's sovereign purpose in allowing regenerated (born again) Christian's to sin?
I have been humbled many times for sinning with pride. I wonder why.
My thoughts are:
To show God's Glory in giving us daily Grace that we need when he sovereignly chooses to give His Grace, not when we choose to do good from our own works, which makes us proud.
To teach us to pray for daily grace for daily sanctification
To keep us dependent on Him.
To keep us from following Satan in prideful, man/self centered lives
To keep us humbled in needing His daily renewing Grace
All of this seems to give Glory to God rather than to man, including Christian mankind.
What are other thoughts?
Maybe thats the problem. These are your thoughts. What about God's?
Yes, thank you, I really want to see this from Scripture. What Scriptures can support or give other explanations to the purpose of God? Please continue. Are there Scriptures that apply to this question?
convicted1
Guest
I am not sure if you do not have an answer and are just trying to seem pious by responding or you really do not understand. Your answer has nothing to do with the question.
"What might be God's sovereign purpose in allowing regenerated (born again) Christian's to sin?"
You keep giving a statement of fact about after we sin, not why God allows us to sin after we are saved consequently you don't answer to the question.
FTR, I am not trying to be pious, holier than thou, or anything like that. If my posts have come across like that, please accept my apologies. God allows us to sin, to show us that we can not go it alone. It states we are kept by the power of God. Salvation is never in our hands, but His. When we sin, we go to Him, and ask for His forgivness. By allowing us to sin, He causes us to see where our help comes from......Him. I hope this clears things up.
convicted1
Guest
Thanks for your diligent research for us on how the Spirit and the Flesh are different and distinct, which maybe helps understand this verse:
1 Cor. 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Maybe this verse gives light into why God allowed it this way.
If "flesh" were to "glory" in God's presence that would be bad, sin, prideful, arrogant, like Satan was.
You may be right, but I need to study this out more.
God's consuming fire might burn us up or cast us out.
Our "flesh" or "indwelling sin" or "old nature" is so horrible to Holy God, that it can't stand in His presense.
You may be onto something here. Thought provoking, indeed.
Yet we need it to live here on earth. Just like there are weeds, and mosquitoes on earth, it's leftover from the fall.
God leaves all these fallen things in place, so that His Holiness and Glory stand in stark contrast to fallen things, resulting in praise and glory to Him.
Agreed. Remember, our physical body still has sin remaining in it, whereas the soul doesn't. That is why we rejoice whenever He blesses us, in our souls, that is.
Thus we see our indwelling sin, and our soul hates it, but we give God greater glory as we see his daily grace (not just at salvation but daily grace) given to us to have faith in obedience in confession, and God's repeated forgiveness, to see what we are when left to ourselves, our own strength, our own works without grace.
When we err, and ask, and get, His forgivness, it makes us rejoice in knowing that we are His.
God has the sovereign right to let us sin as Christians. Just as God has the sovereign right to give Grace to undeserving sinners (enemies, blasphemers, idolaters, haters of God) who become supernaturally convicted of sin and repent.
Where sin abounds, Grace does much more abound.
Our sin, confession, and forgiveness, is like a daily echo and reminder of the original Grace that was given to us at salvation. It has a practical purpose to keep us in awe at God's grace, both at salvation, and in daily battles with the indwelling sin that our soul and spirit hates and battles.
Help me test and prove these thoughts from Scripture.
Well Brother, our flesh is made by Him, but He used corrupted material(the ground that He cursed), when He formed us. We inherited our sin nature from Adam, and because of this curse, our flesh will die, whether we be Saint or sinner when He calls us out of this world. The soul that He saves, when He calls, it will never die, because it has been risen from a dead state of sin, into a lively hope, Jesus being our Hope. The stain of sin remains in our fleh, even after salvation has taken place. When we get our new body, it will be fashioned after Jesus' body, and no sin will be in that body, and therefore, we will see Him as He is, with the new eyes we have, in our new bodies.
freeatlast
New Member
FTR, I am not trying to be pious, holier than thou, or anything like that. If my posts have come across like that, please accept my apologies. God allows us to sin, to show us that we can not go it alone. It states we are kept by the power of God. Salvation is never in our hands, but His. When we sin, we go to Him, and ask for His forgivness. By allowing us to sin, He causes us to see where our help comes from......Him. I hope this clears things up.
My apology for jumpimg on you.
convicted1
Guest
My apology for jumpimg on you.
Thanks, but this wasn't necessary. I pray that you now understand what I was trying to explain. Yes? No? Maybe?
quantumfaith
Active Member
Thanks for your diligent research for us on how the Spirit and the Flesh are different and distinct, which maybe helps understand this verse:
1 Cor. 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Maybe this verse gives light into why God allowed it this way.
If "flesh" were to "glory" in God's presence that would be bad, sin, prideful, arrogant, like Satan was.
God's consuming fire might burn us up or cast us out.
Our "flesh" or "indwelling sin" or "old nature" is so horrible to Holy God, that it can't stand in His presense.
Yet we need it to live here on earth. Just like there are weeds, and mosquitoes on earth, it's leftover from the fall.
God leaves all these fallen things in place, so that His Holiness and Glory stand in stark contrast to fallen things, resulting in praise and glory to Him.
Thus we see our indwelling sin, and our soul hates it, but we give God greater glory as we see his daily grace (not just at salvation but daily grace) given to us to have faith in obedience in confession, and God's repeated forgiveness, to see what we are when left to ourselves, our own strength, our own works without grace.
God has the sovereign right to let us sin as Christians. Just as God has the sovereign right to give Grace to undeserving sinners (enemies, blasphemers, idolaters, haters of God) who become supernaturally convicted of sin and repent.
Our sin, confession, and forgiveness, is like a daily echo and reminder of the original Grace that was given to us at salvation. It has a practical purpose to keep us in awe at God's grace, both at salvation, and in daily battles with the indwelling sin that our soul and spirit hates and battles.
Help me test and prove these thoughts from Scripture.
Excellent post. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
You asked for scripture;Yes, thank you, I really want to see this from Scripture. What Scriptures can support or give other explanations to the purpose of God? Please continue. Are there Scriptures that apply to this question?
John 10 : 1-12 to begin with. It has always been strange to me that men when discussing scripture are always talking about their interpretation. If you will notice that in John 10 we find that the sheep know and follow the Shepard's voice. If we know His voice, we know who is speaking to our hearts. By knowing His voice personally it wouldn't be easy to fool us.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
If the above verse is true then men should never try to interpret scripture. We know His voice. We can trust the Holy Spirit with in us all to teach us what God wants us to know. Yet instead we have men with their interpretations and this I feel is the reason there are so many different views. Everyone is going in a different direction. Calvinist do not agree with each other and neither do the Non Cal's let alone there be any agreement between the two doctrines.
I'm sure in my heart of what I believe not because it was taught me by men with degrees but because I am totally God dependant. I don't try to understand. I lean on the Lord to teach me and He does.
I know many here will say they too are taught by the Spirit but if they all are. Then how come few of us agree? It's impossible for the Spirit to lie so why would He teach you or someone else the opposite of what He teaches me. The Spirit doesn't do that, men do.
Those who do not know the truth may never know it and all because of the interpretations of men. Who are more than willing to show there man made degrees to prove they're suspose to know what they are talking about.
An education is a good thing to have yet inorder to have it these days one has to allow the professor's to make up your mind for you. This isn't God teaching you any thing. It's being brain washed into believing there views and vexing the Spirit's teaching.
If the Spirit is teaching you and me as well then, why is it we do not believe the same things?
In my view all disagreements could be settled if men would lean on the Lord for their biblical knowledge.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
MB
Last edited by a moderator:
convicted1
Guest
You asked for scripture;
John 10 : 1-12 to begin with. It has always been strange to me that men when discussing scripture are always talking about their interpretation. If you will notice that in John 10 we find that the sheep know and follow the Shepard's voice. If we know His voice, we know who is speaking to our hearts. By knowing His voice personally it wouldn't be easy to fool us.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
If the above verse is true then men should never try to interpret scripture. We know His voice. We can trust the Holy Spirit with in us all to teach us what God wants us to know. Yet instead we have men with their interpretations and this I feel is the reason there are so many different views. Everyone is going in a different direction. Calvinist do not agree with each other and neither do the Non Cal's let alone there be any agreement between the two doctrines.
I'm sure in my heart of what I believe not because it was taught me by men with degrees but because I am totally God dependant. I don't try to understand. I lean on the Lord to teach me and He does.
I know many here will say they too are taught by the Spirit but if they all are. Then how come few of us agree? It's impossible for the Spirit to lie so why would He teach you or someone else the opposite of what He teaches me. The Spirit doesn't do that, men do.
Those who do not know the truth may never know it and all because of the interpretations of men. Who are more than willing to show there man made degrees to prove they're suspose to know what they are talking about.
An education is a good thing to have yet inorder to have it these days one has to allow the professor's to make up your mind for you. This isn't God teaching you any thing. It's being brain washed into believing there views and vexing the Spirit's teaching.
If the Spirit is teaching you and me as well then, why is it we do not believe the same things?
In my view all disagreements could be settled if men would lean on the Lord for their biblical knowledge.
MB
A very thoughtful, insightful, and needful post. Very well stated.......
Mb
I think we know what you are trying to say, yet there are some problems with your theory...for example you posted this:
This promise was for the apostles, not you and I. How so???
You never heard Jesus when he was on earth...so the Spirit cannot bring to your remeberance those things you never heard to begin with.
the apostles heard Him preach, as eyewitnesses...he promised them to be guided into all truth...not you.
We have all truth in the word of God.All we need to know. We need to see what the word says.
God has given pastors and teachers to His church to teach. we do not ignore them...but we search out if these things are so.
I think we know what you are trying to say, yet there are some problems with your theory...for example you posted this:
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. If the above verse is true then men should never try to interpret scripture. We know His voice. We can trust the Holy Spirit with in us all to teach us what God wants us to know. Yet instead we have men with their interpretations and this I feel is the reason there are so many different views. Everyone is going in a different direction. Calvinist do not agree with each other and neither do the Non Cal's let alone there be any agreement between the two doctrines.
This promise was for the apostles, not you and I. How so???
You never heard Jesus when he was on earth...so the Spirit cannot bring to your remeberance those things you never heard to begin with.
the apostles heard Him preach, as eyewitnesses...he promised them to be guided into all truth...not you.
We have all truth in the word of God.All we need to know. We need to see what the word says.
God has given pastors and teachers to His church to teach. we do not ignore them...but we search out if these things are so.
Iconoclast;Mb
I think we know what you are trying to say, yet there are some problems with your theory...for example you posted this:
This promise was for the apostles, not you and I. How so???
You never heard Jesus when he was on earth...so the Spirit cannot bring to your remeberance those things you never heard to begin with.
the apostles heard Him preach, as eyewitnesses...he promised them to be guided into all truth...not you.
We have all truth in the word of God.All we need to know. We need to see what the word says.
God has given pastors and teachers to His church to teach. we do not ignore them...but we search out if these things are so.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
I didn't post this to argue with you. I'll trust in the Lord and not in men.
MB
freeatlast
New Member
You asked for scripture;
John 10 : 1-12 to begin with. It has always been strange to me that men when discussing scripture are always talking about their interpretation. If you will notice that in John 10 we find that the sheep know and follow the Shepard's voice. If we know His voice, we know who is speaking to our hearts. By knowing His voice personally it wouldn't be easy to fool us.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
If the above verse is true then men should never try to interpret scripture. We know His voice. We can trust the Holy Spirit with in us all to teach us what God wants us to know. Yet instead we have men with their interpretations and this I feel is the reason there are so many different views. Everyone is going in a different direction. Calvinist do not agree with each other and neither do the Non Cal's let alone there be any agreement between the two doctrines.
I'm sure in my heart of what I believe not because it was taught me by men with degrees but because I am totally God dependant. I don't try to understand. I lean on the Lord to teach me and He does.
I know many here will say they too are taught by the Spirit but if they all are. Then how come few of us agree? It's impossible for the Spirit to lie so why would He teach you or someone else the opposite of what He teaches me. The Spirit doesn't do that, men do.
Those who do not know the truth may never know it and all because of the interpretations of men. Who are more than willing to show there man made degrees to prove they're suspose to know what they are talking about.
An education is a good thing to have yet inorder to have it these days one has to allow the professor's to make up your mind for you. This isn't God teaching you any thing. It's being brain washed into believing there views and vexing the Spirit's teaching.
If the Spirit is teaching you and me as well then, why is it we do not believe the same things?
In my view all disagreements could be settled if men would lean on the Lord for their biblical knowledge.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
MB
Have you ever been wrong about something you believed in scripture and then had to change your mind later because you saw it differently? If so who was teaching you?