1 Corinthians 6:9

[pinoybaptist]

Hi, all.
I haven't posted here for awhile.
Lemme just jump right in.
I posted this question in other forums, too, haven't gotten answers yet.

I had a long talk with a good friend of mine. He is a practicing homosexual (did I hear gasps ? how could a believer be friends with such wicked characters ?).

He wanted to know if the kingdom of God mentioned in 1 Cor. 6:9 was the heavenly kingdom, or the gospel kingdom.
No, those are my terminologies.
He used the words "heaven" and "earth". I gave him my answer, which sent him away a little bit more confused. lol.
What do "you" all think ? Is this kingdom the heavenly one, or the church kingdom ?

 

[freeatlast]

Hi, all.
I haven't posted here for awhile.
Lemme just jump right in.
I posted this question in other forums, too, haven't gotten answers yet.

I had a long talk with a good friend of mine. He is a practicing homosexual (did I hear gasps ? how could a believer be friends with such wicked characters ?).

He wanted to know if the kingdom of God mentioned in 1 Cor. 6:9 was the heavenly kingdom, or the gospel kingdom.
No, those are my terminologies.
He used the words "heaven" and "earth". I gave him my answer, which sent him away a little bit more confused. lol.
What do "you" all think ? Is this kingdom the heavenly one, or the church kingdom ?

Paul is saying that any person who is practicing any of those things mentioned is not saved. He even goes so far as say Don't be deceived. We inherit the kingdom of heaven and those practicing sin will not inherit it. They are not going to heaven. Your friend is lost and needs to be saved.
There is no such thing as the church kingdom in the bible. I strongly suggest that you point your friend to someone who can tell him the truth and lead him to the Lord if he will repent as for now he is headed to hell.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Paul is saying that any person who is practicing any of those things mentioned is not saved. He even goes so far as say Don't be deceived. We inherit the kingdom of heaven and those practicing sin will not inherit it. They are not going to heaven. Your friend is lost and needs to be saved.
There is no such thing as the church kingdom in the bible. I strongly suggest that you point your friend to someone who can tell him the truth and lead him to the Lord if he will repent as for now he is headed to hell.

He's lost and needs to be saved.
Wow.
If he's lost and all, then nothing he does can get him saved because the cross is past.
unless you're going to say Christ will go back up that cross and be crucified all over again for this homosexual's sake.
and nobody said anything about a church kingdom, so where did you get that?
so, since here I am, a Christian, already talking to my friend, I cannot, as you insinuate, tell him the truth, so I need to point him to someone else, away from me ?
Do you realize you indirectly called me a teacher of lies ?

 

[beameup]

A non-believer posed this question to me. He was testing me much like Jesus was tested by the Pharisees.
I told him that, like any Christian, he would not be able to hear the Holy Spirit as he would be living in the flesh.
He would be living with his ego/self in charge of his life. He would be a "Carnal Christian". Any Christian who
is self-directed (ego-directed) is not walking in the Spirit and cannot hear the Holy Spirit.
Now, if an unbeliever has a deviant lifestyle, he can become saved. Following salvation he can learn how
to walk in the Spirit (be Spirit-directed) or he can fall back into a self-directed lifestyle like before salvation.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Hi, all.

I had a long talk with a good friend of mine. He is a practicing homosexual (did I hear gasps ? how could a believer be friends with such wicked characters ?).

It is right to be friendly with sinners. The Lord was called the Friend of sinners.

He wanted to know if the kingdom of God mentioned in 1 Cor. 6:9 was the heavenly kingdom, or the gospel kingdom.
No, those are my terminologies.
He used the words "heaven" and "earth". I gave him my answer, which sent him away a little bit more confused. lol.
What do "you" all think ? Is this kingdom the heavenly one, or the church kingdom ?

This fellow appears to be an unrepentant sinner. As such he is not going to heaven and that is what Paul is saying. It does not matter whether he's a homosexual, a cat-burglar, a fraudster, an adulterer or whatever. The course of action is the same for all sinners and is found in Isaiah 55:6-7, Mark 1:15 and elsewhere. He needs to repent- that is, he needs to turn away from his sins and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. He cannot have Christ and his sins (Matt 7:21-23).

Wow.
If he's lost and all, then nothing he does can get him saved because the cross is past.
unless you're going to say Christ will go back up that cross and be crucified all over again for this homosexual's sake.

What is this nonsense? If the guy repents and turns to Christ he will be saved just like everybody else.

Steve

 

[DiamondLady]

Hi, all.
I haven't posted here for awhile.
Lemme just jump right in.
I posted this question in other forums, too, haven't gotten answers yet.

I had a long talk with a good friend of mine. He is a practicing homosexual (did I hear gasps ? how could a believer be friends with such wicked characters ?).

He wanted to know if the kingdom of God mentioned in 1 Cor. 6:9 was the heavenly kingdom, or the gospel kingdom.
No, those are my terminologies.
He used the words "heaven" and "earth". I gave him my answer, which sent him away a little bit more confused. lol.
What do "you" all think ? Is this kingdom the heavenly one, or the church kingdom ?

I disagree with what has already been posted to you. Yes, your friend can go to Heaven. Thank God that our sin does not preclude us from entering the Kingdom of Heaven. If so, none of us would go...not one.

However, your friend needs to realize what the Bible says about his sin, and how God expects us to realize our sin, repent from our sin, and go and sin no more. He needs to see if he is truly a Christian that his desire should be to live like Christ, to eliminate known sin from his life and to ask God to reveal to him things in his life that need repentance. As Christians our goal should be to strive daily to walk closer to God, to do His will in our lives, to walk the path He has designed for us.

The verse, 1Cor. 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?" is very clear. The unrighteous are those not a child of God. Scripture makes that perfectly clear. One who has not accepted Christ as Savior can not enter Heaven. Period. It doesn't matter how good a person they are, they will not enter Heaven.

All you can do is tell your friend the whole Gospel truth. If he is indeed a Christian he needs to see that his lifestyle is wholly unpleasing to God and needs to repent. (By their fruits ye shall know them.) He needs to hear the truth; unvarnished, clear and plain. Share it in love, not judgment. God can handle the rest.

 

[preacher4truth]

He's lost and needs to be saved.
Wow.
If he's lost and all, then nothing he does can get him saved because the cross is past.

What is "lost and all"?

Nothing "he does" could have ever saved him.

The cross was past to those at Pentecost, and to all of those who responded to the message as believers on the missionary trips/preaching of the apostles, and beyond, and they were all saved who believed. Same thing today, we preach, the elect hear and are saved.

 

[preacher4truth]

It is right to be friendly with sinners. The Lord was called the Friend of sinners.


This fellow appears to be an unrepentant sinner. As such he is not going to heaven and that is what Paul is saying. It does not matter whether he's a homosexual, a cat-burglar, a fraudster, an adulterer or whatever. The course of action is the same for all sinners and is found in Isaiah 55:6-7, Mark 1:15 and elsewhere. He needs to repent- that is, he needs to turn away from his sins and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. He cannot have Christ and his sins (Matt 7:21-23).


What is this nonsense? If the guy repents and turns to Christ he will be saved just like everybody else.

Steve

It's exactly what you've called it: nonsense.

- Peace

 

[freeatlast]

He's lost and needs to be saved.
Wow.
If he's lost and all, then nothing he does can get him saved because the cross is past.
unless you're going to say Christ will go back up that cross and be crucified all over again for this homosexual's sake.
and nobody said anything about a church kingdom, so where did you get that?
so, since here I am, a Christian, already talking to my friend, I cannot, as you insinuate, tell him the truth, so I need to point him to someone else, away from me ?
Do you realize you indirectly called me a teacher of lies ?

First "church kingdom" was your words not mine. Second your friend is lost and needs to be saved. The fact that you have not told him this shows that you need to direct him to another who will.

 

[pinoybaptist]

First "church kingdom" was your words not mine.

yes, you're right. my mistake. I really meant "gospel" kingdom but since what is written is "church" kingdom, nothing I say will matter.

Second your friend is lost and needs to be saved. The fact that you have not told him this shows that you need to direct him to another who will.

you're a judgmental bigot. you don't even know what I told him.

 

[freeatlast]

yes, you're right. my mistake. I really meant "gospel" kingdom but since what is written is "church" kingdom, nothing I say will matter.



you're a judgmental bigot. you don't even know what I told him.

OK how about telling me what you told him? Are you telling him he is lost and in need of salvation?

 

[pinoybaptist]

I disagree with what has already been posted to you. Yes, your friend can go to Heaven. Thank God that our sin does not preclude us from entering the Kingdom of Heaven. If so, none of us would go...not one.

However, your friend needs to realize what the Bible says about his sin, and how God expects us to realize our sin, repent from our sin, and go and sin no more. He needs to see if he is truly a Christian that his desire should be to live like Christ, to eliminate known sin from his life and to ask God to reveal to him things in his life that need repentance. As Christians our goal should be to strive daily to walk closer to God, to do His will in our lives, to walk the path He has designed for us.

The verse, 1Cor. 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?" is very clear. The unrighteous are those not a child of God. Scripture makes that perfectly clear. One who has not accepted Christ as Savior can not enter Heaven. Period. It doesn't matter how good a person they are, they will not enter Heaven.

All you can do is tell your friend the whole Gospel truth. If he is indeed a Christian he needs to see that his lifestyle is wholly unpleasing to God and needs to repent. (By their fruits ye shall know them.) He needs to hear the truth; unvarnished, clear and plain. Share it in love, not judgment. God can handle the rest.

Diamond Lady, I agree with most of what you said, and thank you for your kind words.

 

[pinoybaptist]

OK how about telling me what you told him? Are you telling him he is lost and in need of salvation?

okay, here's what I told him in a nutshell.
The kingdom referred to by Paul is the gospel kingdom, the church.
No practicing homosexual will ever be admitted into membership in a truly gospel church, call it whatever tag you like.
While there may be "churches" abounding who say they're gay-friendly or even gay-led, these are not true gospel churches.
He can't have his cake, and eat it too.

 

[freeatlast]

If he is indeed a Christian he needs to see that his lifestyle is wholly unpleasing to God and needs to repent. (By their fruits ye shall know them.) He needs to hear the truth; unvarnished, clear and plain. Share it in love, not judgment. God can handle the rest.

There is no if. No one can be a practicing sinner and be saved.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[freeatlast]

okay, here's what I told him in a nutshell.
The kingdom referred to by Paul is the gospel kingdom, the church.
No practicing homosexual will ever be admitted into membership in a truly gospel church, call it whatever tag you like.
While there may be "churches" abounding who say they're gay-friendly or even gay-led, these are not true gospel churches.
He can't have his cake, and eat it too.

Well you seem to have your own vernacular since the bible never uses the terms "gospel kingdom." None the less that does not deal directly with his issue. That deals with the church not his problem. He needs to know he is not a Christian, and is on his way to eternal torment, and cannot be one unless he repents no matter what church he might try and attend. If you are not going to be up-front with him then again I suggest you send him to someone who will.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Well you seem to have your own vernacular since the bible never uses the terms "gospel kingdom." None the less that does not deal directly with his issue. That deals with the church not his problem. He needs to know he is not a Christian, and is on his way to eternal torment, and cannot be one unless he repents no matter what church he might try and attend. If you are not going to be up-front with him then again I suggest you send him to someone who will.

Well, I guess in as far as you are concerned, I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't.
His issue was not whether or not he was a Christian.
His question to me was WHICH kingdom is this being referred to.
Was it the gathering of saints in whose hearts the Lord of glory reigns here on earth into a congregation of called-out, redeemed sinners a.k.a a church, whose only rule of faith and practice is the Bible out of which they preach the gospel, therefore I refer to it as a gospel church. OR, was it the kingdom in Heaven, on that side of glory, under whom ALL believers of ALL ages, tribes, tongues, etc., are gathered before the ACTUAL presence of the One who redeemed them and loved them WHILE they were yet sinners ?

I gave him my answer: it was a church here on earth, into which no practicing homosexual will be admitted. He can't be doing what he is doing and join it.

That is the same question I asked of this board.
WHICH kingdom is this.
Did I ask if the inquirer was a Christian ? Did I ask if he should have been witnessed to ? Did I ask if I should have "gotten him saved" ?
Did I ask if I should have rubbed it in his nose that he is damned and going to hell ?

No.
That was not my question.
My question was WHICH kingdom do you think it was. And that was also his question. He wasn't asking me if I think he is going to heaven, or how to get to heaven, or how to avoid hell.
Maybe he has already been exposed to the likes of you who think that his homosexuality is strong enough to stop the blood of Christ, or that Christ looked down through the ages and saw him fornicating with like gender and Christ decided, "nah, not him, Dad, he ain't gon' accept me. I'll be abs'lut'ly pow'rless", and so bypassed him.
I don't know.
But you know, don't you ?

You know because from the get-go you wanted me to see how much of a bad boy I been to let this chance to help God, who created everything out of nothing, get this guy saved, and I blew it.

 

[freeatlast]

Well, I guess in as far as you are concerned, I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't.
His issue was not whether or not he was a Christian.
His question to me was WHICH kingdom is this being referred to.
Was it the gathering of saints in whose hearts the Lord of glory reigns here on earth into a congregation of called-out, redeemed sinners a.k.a a church, whose only rule of faith and practice is the Bible out of which they preach the gospel, therefore I refer to it as a gospel church. OR, was it the kingdom in Heaven, on that side of glory, under whom ALL believers of ALL ages, tribes, tongues, etc., are gathered before the ACTUAL presence of the One who redeemed them and loved them WHILE they were yet sinners ?

I gave him my answer: it was a church here on earth, into which no practicing homosexual will be admitted. He can't be doing what he is doing and join it.

That is the same question I asked of this board.
WHICH kingdom is this.
Did I ask if the inquirer was a Christian ? Did I ask if he should have been witnessed to ? Did I ask if I should have "gotten him saved" ?
Did I ask if I should have rubbed it in his nose that he is damned and going to hell ?

No.
That was not my question.
My question was WHICH kingdom do you think it was. And that was also his question. He wasn't asking me if I think he is going to heaven, or how to get to heaven, or how to avoid hell.
Maybe he has already been exposed to the likes of you who think that his homosexuality is strong enough to stop the blood of Christ, or that Christ looked down through the ages and saw him fornicating with like gender and Christ decided, "nah, not him, Dad, he ain't gon' accept me. I'll be abs'lut'ly pow'rless", and so bypassed him.
I don't know.
But you know, don't you ?

You know because from the get-go you wanted me to see how much of a bad boy I been to let this chance to help God, who created everything out of nothing, get this guy saved, and I blew it.

Well then you gave him the wrong answer. The church is not the kingdom of anything. The church is not something we join. Thatis a modern day practice. The church is that which God adds to, not that which men simpy join or are kept from being part of by men. (Acts 2:47).

And yes I know he is not going to be with the Lord as long as he remains in rebellion. The evidence that he is in rebellion is hos lifestyle. He can repent and come to faith and God will save him but if you are his friend as you claim then he needs to be told or you need to send him to someone who will.
Not telling him the truth about his need may very well be what sends him to hell.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well then you gave him the wrong answer. The church is not the kingdom of anything. The church is not something we join. Thatis a modern day practice. The church is that which God adds to, not that which men simpy join or are kept from being part of by men. (Acts 2:47).

And yes I know he is not going to be with the Lord as long as he remains in rebellion. The evidence that he is in rebellion is hos lifestyle. He can repent and come to faith and God will save him but if you are his friend as you claim then he needs to be told or you need to send him to someone who will.
Not telling him the truth about his need may very well be what sends him to hell.

It appears to me like this friend of his (I'm asssuming pinoy a male) simply wanted to make certain he could still practice this sin, and in turn wanted to know if he would 1) Miss heaven and eternal life; or; 2) Simply not be allowed to be a true member of a local church assembly.

It sounds to me he is going to miss out on both.

I suppose we are to be thankful that he was taught he will only miss out on becoming a member in a local church? Perhaps this friend thinks, "That's OK, I believe, at least I'll make it into heaven." If in fact said friend believes at all.

 

[Van]

Hi Pinoybaptist, lots of divergent views expressed in this thread. We (Baptists) seem to agree on very little of the fundamentals of the faith.

Lets discuss some of these fundamentals.

1) Every born again believer has been transferred from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of the Son, Col. 1:13. So we, the church, are in the spiritual heaven right now.

2) When we see the word "inherit" in the text, that refers to being a spiritual child of God that will "inherit" at the Lord's second coming eternal life in a glorified body.

3) In 1 Corinthians 6:9 we see the term "unrighteous" which refers to those who have not been made righteous, i.e. not born again and undergone the circumcision of Christ.

So the verse presents two issues, (a) is it possible for a born again believer to "practice" sin? And (b) if you "practice" sin can you have any confidence you are born again? The main stream answer if when we are born again and indwelt with our "convicting" Holy Spirit, we will not be comfortable with sin and therefore will consider it sin and desire not to do it. If we look at Paul in Romans 7 we see a person knowing he is wretched yet continuing to do what He does not want to do.

If the person is "comfortable" with his or her lifestyle, and has understood that the Bible teaches that lifestyle is sinful, they should have no confidence they are saved.

I think most of us battle sin in our lives every day. We use tricks like taking candy from a baby, we try to shift our focus toward spiritual things and away from fleshly desires. If your friend is engaged in the battle to humbly follow the Lord, and in his heart of hearts knows his desires and actions are to be put to death so to speak, left behind, put aside, etc, he can have confidence that "if" he or she is in Christ, he or she will inherit the kingdom.

God Bless

 

[freeatlast]

Hi Pinoybaptist, lots of divergent views expressed in this thread. We (Baptists) seem to agree on very little of the fundamentals of the faith.

Lets discuss some of these fundamentals.

1) Every born again believer has been transferred from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of the Son, Col. 1:13. So we, the church, are in the spiritual heaven right now.

2) When we see the word "inherit" in the text, that refers to being a spiritual child of God that will "inherit" at the Lord's second coming eternal life in a glorified body.

3) In 1 Corinthians 6:9 we see the term "unrighteous" which refers to those who have not been made righteous, i.e. not born again and undergone the circumcision of Christ.

So the verse presents two issues, (a) is it possible for a born again believer to "practice" sin? And (b) if you "practice" sin can you have any confidence you are born again? The main stream answer if when we are born again and indwelt with our "convicting" Holy Spirit, we will not be comfortable with sin and therefore will consider it sin and desire not to do it. If we look at Paul in Romans 7 we see a person knowing he is wretched yet continuing to do what He does not want to do.

If the person is "comfortable" with his or her lifestyle, and has understood that the Bible teaches that lifestyle is sinful, they should have no confidence they are saved.

I think most of us battle sin in our lives every day. We use tricks like taking candy from a baby, we try to shift our focus toward spiritual things and away from the fleshly desires. If you friend is engaged in the battle to humbly follow is Lord, and in his heart of hearts knows his desires and actions are to be put to death so to speak, left behind, put aside, etc, he can have confidence that "if" he or she is in Christ, he or she will inherit the kingdom.

God Bless

The Romans passage is not talking about a believer. If they are practicing sin they are not saved. 1John 3:9