1 Corinthians 6:9

[DiamondLady]

There is no if. No one can be a practicing sinner and be saved.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Then, dear FAL, Heaven will be empty of anyone save God himself, Christ, and the angels because every single solitary one of us sins every single solitary day. We are all practicing sinners....I think sometimes we practice until we get it right raying:

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Then, dear FAL, Heaven will be empty of anyone save God himself, Christ, and the angels because every single solitary one of us sins every single solitary day. We are all practicing sinners....I think sometimes we practice until we get it right raying:

FAL is right because he is quoting Scripture, but Praise be! The same Holy Spirit who inspired John to write 1John 2:4 & 3:9 also inspired Him to write 1:9 & 2:1. There is grace for the very worst of sinners.

Steve

 

[Van]

Reply to Freeatlast,

The Romans passage is not talking about a believer. If they are practicing sin they are not saved. 1John 3:9

Yes, you are correct and I was wrong, the Romans 7 passage does describe an unsaved Paul trying to live according to the Law.

However, I think I addressed "the practice of sin" in that a born again person will strive to avoid it because of the convicting nature of our indwelt Holy Spirit.

If you are saying a born again believer can, by the "practice of sin" lose his or her salvation, then you are wrong and I am right.

My view, based on 1 Peter 1:3-5 is that a born again believer has his or her faith protected such that their devotion to Christ precludes being "comfortable with sin" and therefore the idea in the phrase "practice of sin" means someone who condones it rather than genuinely tries to avoid it.

God Bless

 

[Van]

Just a quick note on the two John verses that seemingly say oppositions. If we say we do not sin, we are a liar, and yet anyone who sins is not saved. The main stream answer to this problem is from our perspective, our heart convicts us of our sin and we strive to stop and grow more Christ like. But from God's perspective, our sin is forgiven, we have been justified and so when we sin from our perspective, it is just as if we did not sin from God's perspective.

On the other hand, when we see efforts to make an accommodation with the flesh, such as this behavior or that behavior is not really sin, that should be a red flag to us tell us we are not saved because the Holy Spirit should bring our understanding into focus when we read not to make any accommodation with the flesh.

 

[freeatlast]

Then, dear FAL, Heaven will be empty of anyone save God himself, Christ, and the angels because every single solitary one of us sins every single solitary day. We are all practicing sinners....I think sometimes we practice until we get it right raying:

No practicing sinner is saved. 1 john 3:9

 

[freeatlast]

Yes, you are correct and I was wrong, the Romans 7 passage does describe an unsaved Paul trying to live according to the Law.

However, I think I addressed "the practice of sin" in that a born again person will strive to avoid it because of the convicting nature of our indwelt Holy Spirit.

If you are saying a born again believer can, by the "practice of sin" lose his or her salvation, then you are wrong and I am right.

My view, based on 1 Peter 1:3-5 is that a born again believer has his or her faith protected such that their devotion to Christ precludes being "comfortable with sin" and therefore the idea in the phrase "practice of sin" means someone who condones it rather than genuinely tries to avoid it.

God Bless

No one can lose their salvation but no saved person practices sin. 1John 3:9

 

[freeatlast]

Just a quick note on the two John verses that seemingly say oppositions. If we say we do not sin, we are a liar, and yet anyone who sins is not saved. The main stream answer to this problem is from our perspective, our heart convicts us of our sin and we strive to stop and grow more Christ like. But from God's perspective, our sin is forgiven, we have been justified and so when we sin from our perspective, it is just as if we did not sin from God's perspective.

On the other hand, when we see efforts to make an accommodation with the flesh, such as this behavior or that behavior is not really sin, that should be a red flag to us tell us we are not saved because the Holy Spirit should bring our understanding into focus when we read not to make any accommodation with the flesh.

The passage is speaking literally. Any person who claims to know God and practices sin is a liar. It is speaking of actually doing the sin.

 

[Van]

Hi Freeatlast, me thinks you have staked out a mistaken view and for some reason are unwilling to accept God's word. Both passages are speaking literally. I did not say nor suggest 1 John 3:9 did not literally mean what it says, I explained what it says in a way that is consistent with 1 John 1:8. Scripture does say anyone who says no sin is in them is a liar and is unsaved. That seems to be your statement. I have tried to explain how published commentators have addressed this issue, by defining "the practice of sin" as sinning without genuine remorse. You have not defined, or at least I have seen where you defined it.

Think about it, sir. How can someone who is saved practice sin, if they never sin in God's eyes, yet they sin all the time? The answer must be in their acceptance or accomodation with sin, such that they are not striving not to sin out of devotlion to Christ.

As another poster pointed out, you sin every day, thus using the number of sins over time as a defintion as a definition of practice, you are unsaved because you practice sin. See the problem with your view?

 

[Van]

No one who practices sin, as I have defined the practice of sin, is saved, 1 John 3:9.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

If we do not confess our sins, that means we are either deceived, or unsaved. How can we
grow more Christ-like if we do not battle everyday, comparing our thoughts and actions against
the standard of Christ.

 

[freeatlast]

Hi Freeatlast, me thinks you have staked out a mistaken view and for some reason are unwilling to accept God's word. Both passages are speaking literally. I did not say nor suggest 1 John 3:9 did not literally mean what it says, I explained what it says in a way that is consistent with 1 John 1:8. Scripture does say anyone who says no sin is in them is a liar and is unsaved. That seems to be your statement. I have tried to explain how published commentators have addressed this issue, by defining "the practice of sin" as sinning without genuine remorse. You have not defined, or at least I have seen where you defined it.

Think about it, sir. How can someone who is saved practice sin, if they never sin in God's eyes, yet they sin all the time? The answer must be in their acceptance or accomodation with sin, such that they are not striving not to sin out of devotlion to Christ.

As another poster pointed out, you sin every day, thus using the number of sins over time as a defintion as a definition of practice, you are unsaved because you practice sin. See the problem with your view?

Van, The bible never teaches that the saved never sin in the eyes of God, that would be ridiculas. If that was the case there would be no need to ever confess our sin as He would not know what we are talking about. If we sin from time to time He knows it and sees it. It is not that we do not sin in His eyes but that the sin is already paid for in Christ.

Well you might sin every day but not everyone is in that boat so speak for yourself and you need to stop it as it dishonors the Lord. All your sin is a choice just like anyone's sin is.

What you wrote can be confusing by how you worded it so I stand on the statement that the passage is speaking literal. I certainly agree to practice sin would be without remorse, but if there was genuine remorse there would not be the practice (continuation) of the sin as no temptation is greater then we can overcome.

1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

 

[DiamondLady]

FAL, is an attitude of know-it-all arrogance and a refusal to see the possibility that one could possibly be wrong a sin??

 

[freeatlast]

FAL, is an attitude of know-it-all arrogance and a refusal to see the possibility that one could possibly be wrong a sin??

Absolutely. Just like twisting truth to fit one's own beliefs is sin.

 

[Van]

Reply to Freeatlast,

Van, The bible never teaches that the saved never sin in the eyes of God, that would be ridiculas. If that was the case there would be no need to ever confess our sin as He would not know what we are talking about. If we sin from time to time He knows it and sees it. It is not that we do not sin in His eyes but that the sin is already paid for in Christ.

Well you might sin every day but not everyone is in that boat so speak for yourself and you need to stop it as it dishonors the Lord. All your sin is a choice just like anyone's sin is.

What you wrote can be confusing by how you worded it so I stand on the statement that the passage is speaking literal. I certainly agree to practice sin would be without remorse, but if there was genuine remorse there would not be the practice (continuation) of the sin as no temptation is greater then we can overcome.

1Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

Lets take these one at a time.

No charge can be brought against God's elect. If God counted any action on our part as sin, then that charge could be brought against us. Therefore, Romans 8:33 teaches we do not sin because we are justified, or it is just as if we did not sin. So strike one.

As I explain, the need to confess our sin rests on us coming to the understanding that our thoughts and behavior fall short of Christ's perfection.
The idea is for us to walk humbly with our Lord, not proudly as someone who says they do not sin every single day. The Lord's prayer is a daily prayer and every day we are to confess. To deny this seems odd. So strike two.

Denying we sin and struggle to become more Christ-like dishonors God, see 1 John 1:8. And here is a news flash from someone who has walked with Christ for more than 50 years, the more we grow, the more we are aware of the vastness of our shortfalls.

Since no one questioned that 1 John 3:9 was literal, your statements are moot, and apparently an effort at sidestepping. Similarly no one has suggested we sin because we are unable not to sin, no we sin because we are ignorant of the standard or unwilling to adhere to the standard. As Paul explained, once you understand the sin of coveting, you come to realize you covet all the time.

Last effort to explain a fundamental of Christian living, once saved we are free from the penalty of sin, but as we live the remainder of our physical life, we grow in Christian maturity where we recognize more in our life that needs changing and God gives us the power through daily prayer to change, but it is a great struggle.

 

[freeatlast]

Lets take these one at a time.

No charge can be brought against God's elect. If God counted any action on our part as sin, then that charge could be brought against us. Therefore, Romans 8:33 teaches we do not sin because we are justified, or it is just as if we did not sin. So strike one.

As I explain, the need to confess our sin rests on us coming to the understanding that our thoughts and behavior fall short of Christ's perfection.
The idea is for us to walk humbly with our Lord, not proudly as someone who says they do not sin every single day. The Lord's prayer is a daily prayer and every day we are to confess. To deny this seems odd. So strike two.

Denying we sin and struggle to become more Christ-like dishonors God, see 1 John 1:8. And here is a news flash from someone who has walked with Christ for more than 50 years, the more we grow, the more we are aware of the vastness of our shortfalls.

Since no one questioned that 1 John 3:9 was literal, your statements are moot, and apparently an effort at sidestepping. Similarly no one has suggested we sin because we are unable not to sin, no we sin because we are ignorant of the standard or unwilling to adhere to the standard. As Paul explained, once you understand the sin of coveting, you come to realize you covet all the time.

Last effort to explain a fundamental of Christian living, once saved we are free from the penalty of sin, but as we live the remainder of our physical life, we grow in Christian maturity where we recognize more in our life that needs changing and God gives us the power through daily prayer to change, but it is a great struggle.

Van are you a wiggly worm also? Now you are trying to change (wiggle out of) what you said. You said this; the saved never sin in the eyes of God"." Which is false. Now you are saying no charge is brought against God's elect and that is true. Thye are two different things.

Next you twist the word in Romans. You say; "Romans 8:33 teaches we do not sin because we are justified, or it is just as if we did not sin."
No, It does not teach it is just like we never sin. That is false. We sin and the sin is covered, but it is not like we do not sin. So again you twist scripture.

For anyone who is sinning daily they dishonor the Lord. There is no reason to sin daily any more then there is a reason to sin every minute. I would ask you what is there for you some clock that goes off and tells you that you need to get your sin in for a day?
If you can go one second without sinning then you can go a minute, if a minute then an hour and an hour then the day. The reason people want to profess that everyone sins every day is because their own lives are not what they should be and they do not want to stick out like a sore thumb.


Next you twisted scripture again in 1John 1:8., The passage is not suggesting that people sin every day. In fact the passage is not even dealing with Christians at all. The passage is dealing with Gnostics who claimed they have never sinned. It is a warning that if someone claims they have never sinned they are lost. Verse 9 is a promise to them that if they confess their sin He (Christ) would forgive them.


Lastly Paul never taught what you said. You may have a different bible, you need to check it out as what you are saying has no relationship with the word of God.

No one has to sin as all sin is a choice. We should not be sinning every day. In fact we should not ever sin after we are saved, but very few have done that. For sure we should not be sinning every day. Those who are need to check their love life.