Biblical instruction vs personal opinion

[seekingthetruth]

How do we discern between true biblical instruction and simple personal opinion? It is easy to take our own doctrinal beliefs and state them as fact, even to the point that we rebuke and condemn anyone that disagrees with us. The Cal/non-cal argument is a prime example. Both sides have very strong beliefs that their doctrine is the correct one. It is obvious that only one side can truly be right, but how can man come to a final decision on this that is actually God's doctrine and not man's? I don't think we can.

Which brings me to the question here. How much should we trust our own personal opinion when dealing with fellow Christians that we differ in doctrine with?

Luke2427 on another thread wrote this to me:

"The issue has to do with the arguments not the person. I am fine with respecting the person. I refuse, absolutely refuse, to offer respect to arguments that I feel undermined the faith. You should also refuse to render respect to arguments that undermine the faith. in fact you have no option in this but to confront such arguments. And not to do so lightly or sweetly. The Bible has told us how we are to confront darkness. You don't get to improve upon the word of God, or do it some other way. You must do It the way god says to do it. We do not look to Dale Carnegie for our methodology. We look to the word of God. We believe God knows better than Dale Carnegie. We believe God knows better than our current culture. So we look to God to tell us how to confront darkness. Add God said that we are to demolish such arguments as those that seeking the truth and those like him promote"

Who decides what undermines the faith? Some may say that the doctrine of freewill undermines the faith, others may say that DoG undermines the faith. Some say that using the KJV exclusively undermines the faith, while others say that some modern versions undermine the faith. Get my point? It boils down to personal opinion in how the scriptues are interpreted.

Is there really biblical instructions to rebuke fellow Christians because of differences in doctrine? Aren't our differences really based on our personal opinion of the interpretation of scripture? How can we be sure that our interpretation/opinion is the correct one? And just what does God say about "demolishing" the beliefs of fellow Christians?

Once again, this is opinion, but it's my opinion. None us have the mind of God, so none of us interprets scripture 100% correctly. For one of us to take the stand that he is 100% correct, and that everyone that disagrees with him is in "darkness" is the epitome of arrogance, and attacking fellow Christians is uncalled for.

John

 

[freeatlast]

Just believe what the bible says and stop all the personal interpretation.If the bible teaches two things that seem to be a paradox then believe them both and do not try and hold one above the other.

 

[Mexdeaf]

It seems to me that if you were truly convinced of the correctness of your own beliefs than Luke's posts would not bother you so much.

 

[glfredrick]

It seems to me that if you were truly convinced of the correctness of your own beliefs than Luke's posts would not bother you so much.

Exactly...

 

[Salty]

Just believe what the bible says and stop all the personal interpretation.If the bible teaches two things that seem to be a paradox then believe them both and do not try and hold one above the other.

Is it really that simple?

For example, is it wrong to play cards? Many of us grew up being taught it is a sin. I don't think anyone has ever shown me chapter and verse, however is there a concept in Scripture? Such as abstain from all appearances of evil - of which card playing could possibly fall into (gambling).
But then what about other card games such as Uno?

Same goes for dancing. Lets assume dancing is not prohibited by the Bible. So would it be wrong for 2 married people to dance with other partners..........

How about a demarkation line for what movies, TV shows, ect.
I supposed G rated is okay, but what about GP.
A few years ago Christians were encouraged to watch "The Passion of Christ" which was rated "R" (remember before ratings came out we were told that you never know what you might see in a movie?)

What other "Grey Zone" activities are there that may be hard to determine if it is true biblical instruction or simple personal opinion?

Salty

PS, I don't go to movies - why - too expensive - admission and the popcorn.

 

[mandym]

The Cal/non-cal argument is a prime example. Both sides have very strong beliefs that their doctrine is the correct one. It is obvious that only one side can truly be right,

Or neither

 

[Luke2427]

Is it really that simple?

For example, is it wrong to play cards? Many of us grew up being taught it is a sin. I don't think anyone has ever shown me chapter and verse, however is there a concept in Scripture? Such as abstain from all appearances of evil - of which card playing could possibly fall into (gambling).
But then what about other card games such as Uno?

Same goes for dancing. Lets assume dancing is not prohibited by the Bible. So would it be wrong for 2 married people to dance with other partners..........

How about a demarkation line for what movies, TV shows, ect.
I supposed G rated is okay, but what about GP.
A few years ago Christians were encouraged to watch "The Passion of Christ" which was rated "R" (remember before ratings came out we were told that you never know what you might see in a movie?)

What other "Grey Zone" activities are there that may be hard to determine if it is true biblical instruction or simple personal opinion?

Salty

PS, I don't go to movies - why - too expensive - admission and the popcorn.

Right. I don't think anybody is disputing this.

The point I am desperately trying to get across to STT and anyone else who does not yet realize it, is that we are not to allow darkness to go unchecked.
We are not to fellowship it. We are to reprove it. We are to demolish it. We are to contend against it. This is bible language for how God expects us to deal with darkness wherever we find it.

Darkness is not PEOPLE- it is ideas, philosophies, theologies, etc... that undermine the Christian Faith- the faith once and for all delivered unto the saints.

My enemy is not STT- my enemy is what IT SEEMS he espouses. I am not attacking him personally. I am attacking what appears to be his ideology- and all of us are supposed to do this too.

I am contending that it is unequivocally clear that much of modern fundamentalism does undermine the faith. I am in good company with many reputable evangelical scholars and leaders when I say MUCH of what is called "fundamentalism" today is cultic, legalistic and heretical.

What I am contending is that NO ABLE CHRISTIAN GETS TPT OUT OF HIS DUTY BEFORE GOD TO DEMOLISH THIS DARKNESS.

You don't get to say, "I think I will speak sweetly about it," or "I don't think I will be condemnatory; I will be more amiable towards it," etc...

That option is not available to you. You do not get to bypass your duty to DEMOLISH it (II Corinthians 10:5 for one of MANY examples).

And I am contending that we are losing our culture because we DON'T do this like we should- like God has commanded us to.

 

[Amy.G]

It seems to me that if you were truly convinced of the correctness of your own beliefs than Luke's posts would not bother you so much.

Luke's posts bother people because of his attitude and offensiveness. He does not "teach the truth in love". He talks down to his own brothers and sisters instead of fighting the real enemy.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke's posts bother people because of his attitude and offensiveness. He does not "teach the truth in love". He talks down to his own brothers and sisters instead of fighting the real enemy.

Who is the real enemy Amy?

 

[Ruiz]

John,

Thanks you for thinking about this topic, you offer some solid thoughts on a much needed issue of our day, and I hope this is given priority on our board.

This is an important discussion for a few reasons. Each of us is prone to be deceived by our culture, personal biases, and a heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. These internal barriers are not always recognized by us, but are ever present.

There are also external barriers to properly interpreting the Scripture. Such barriers include translation issues from the Greek to the English, understanding the cultural dynamics of the writings of Scripture, and deciphering between the various types of writing (poetic, prophetic, didactic, historic, etc.).

Some use these barriers and conclude that the Christian cannot rightly understand the Bible, but this is not true. There are areas where the Bible speaks clearly; the doctrine of perspicuity (clarity) of Scripture is Biblical.

The Bible can be interpreted by the Christian but there are people who are more wise, and some less, in rightly interpreting the Word of God. Elders/Pastors, for instance, should have been tested and proven to be faithful in their interpretation in order to teach the congregation. They should be more proven in their study of Scripture.

Pastors, however, can be in error. We only need history and the Bible to confirm this point. Paul had to confront Peter with error and Diotrophese was a scourge to his congregation. In history the church confronted Arianism, Modalism, Gnosticism, and a myriad of other heresies espoused by Pastors. Thus, we can conclude that interpretation is clear but also not simple.

How do we avoid error in Scripture? While we can rely upon God’s Word as the final authority in life and practice, we should first begin to understand that our interpretation could be wrought with error. Extra care needs to be taken on areas of theology to ensure we are rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Here are some suggestions in helping avoid error.

1. Faithful, verse by verse, preaching and teaching of God’s Word should be the main diet. A Christian will be forced to deal with the context as the preacher goes from verse to verse all while dealing with easy and difficult passages in Scripture.

2. A historic theological approach to theology. Since the Bible is perspicuous (clear), then Christians throughout history have normally been accurate in their interpretation. Historic theology allows us to see the development of theology that transcends our current culture or situation. Granted, the Bible is the final authority, but you are strengthened in seeing the theology transcend culture and people groups and you get an historic understanding of how they interpreted the verses. As theologians have often said, “If it is new it probably is not true, if it is true it probably is not new.” Historic study not only gives us theology that transcends culture, but helps us to see the importance of certain theologies. Thus, a denial of the Trinity is considered heretical but church government may vary.

3. Study and become proficient in the original languages. There is no substitute for seeing the nuances in the original languages.

4. Read great theologians from all eras in church history. If you read mostly from people since the 20th Century or 19th Century, you will miss the wisdom of other ages and more prone to a cultural interpretation of the verses, not necessarily a Biblical interpretation.

5. Be a member of a church which has a focus on all the above and is dedicated to this form of Biblical and historic theology.

The Bible is our authority, but we should acknowledge the barriers we face in Christian theology. Relying upon only me and my Bible (Solo Scriptura meaning only the Scriptures) jettisons the wisdom of the ages. Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) does not reject wisdom, preaching, other books, and helps in understanding the Scripture. In fact, it says that since the Bible is clear, you will not be the only person or group who discover this doctrine. Sola Scriptura says the Bible alone but recognizes that only the Bible could be harmful. We need others, the church, and faithful pastors who can see through the problems of our culture, recognize our internal deceptions, and confront other interpretative barriers.

 

[Luke2427]

Is there really biblical instructions to rebuke fellow Christians because of differences in doctrine?
John

That you have to ask this is indicative of the problem here, STT.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Ruiz wrote:

"We need others, the church, and faithful pastors who can see through the problems of our culture, recognize our internal deceptions, and confront other interpretative barriers"

i could not agree more. And let me add to that, that just because I read a passage of scripture and understand what was meant when it was written, doesn't automatically mean I know how to apply it to today's culture. You are right, this is why we need others.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

That you have to ask this is indicative of the problem here, STT.

I don't see it your way. Jesus Himself was very stern and blunt to the non-believers, but He corrected his followers with love. For instance, Peter, He corrected many times but He never called Him a heretic or said he was in 'darkness"

John

 

[Luke2427]

I don't see it your way. Jesus Himself was very stern and blunt to the non-believers, but He corrected his followers with love. For instance, Peter, He corrected many times but He never called Him a heretic or said he was in 'darkness"

John

No, he called him Satan, John. He called Peter Satan.

 

[Amy.G]

Who is the real enemy Amy?

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.



People who preach any other doctrine besides that of Christ and the apostles are the enemy. These people creep into the church unnoticed. They are not your brothers and sisters in Christ. They have been marked for damnation.

Your issue with bible versions, and IFB stuff has nothing to do with this. It's ok if you disagree, but do it in love. But these things are not damnable doctrines and you need to learn how to speak truth without cramming it down someone's throat. You will never change someone's mind by doing it that way. You only create division, which btw is also condemned in scripture.

 

[seekingthetruth]

No, he called him Satan, John. He called Peter Satan.

Yes, because in Matthew 4 Satan also tried to get Jesus to not go to the cross. Jesus saw Satan in Peter as if Satan himself had returned to tempt him once more. I believe Jesus was actually addressing Satan here.

Jesus was righteous in His judgement and his anger at Peter.

We are righteous in neither judgement or anger, so I don't see how this justifies your anger and judgement of any christian that disagrees with you.

Has it occured to you that you just might be just as wrong as the people/argument you are condemning?

John

 

[Luke2427]

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.



People who preach any other doctrine besides that of Christ and the apostles are the enemy. These people creep into the church unnoticed. They are not your brothers and sisters in Christ. They have been marked for damnation.

Your issue with bible versions, and IFB stuff has nothing to do with this. It's ok if you disagree, but do it in love. But these things are not damnable doctrines and you need to learn how to speak truth without cramming it down someone's throat. You will never change someone's mind by doing it that way. You only create division, which btw is also condemned in scripture.

You are wrong, Amy. And many reputable Christian scholars attest to this.

When a man says that his version of the Bible is the only reliable version in the world today and that all others are perversions- that man has blatantly undermined the doctrine of inspiration.

STT may not believe this- I have not said that he does- but if you read his HORRIBLE- absolutely HORRIBLE comments about the NIV- you'd be an absolute HYPOCRITE to correct me here and not LAMBASTE him for the same thing.

I have NEVER said anything on baptistboard as horrible about someone as he said about our brothers in Christ who translated the NIV (that at least some of them were Christian cannot be questioned).

People who say those kinds of horrifc things about the NIV usually belong to this KJVO cult that I am condemning and that God commands you to condemn as well.

And the KJVO is not the only heresy found within the ranks of IFB and movements like them. Baptist Bride, a belief that most if not all SBC are going to hell and just about every other movement along with them, a type of ex cathedra from the pastors of this movement, a cultic isolationism, a legalism based on extrabiblical standards, and the list goes on and on and on and on....

 

[Mexdeaf]

Luke's posts bother people because of his attitude and offensiveness. He does not "teach the truth in love". He talks down to his own brothers and sisters instead of fighting the real enemy.

I admittedly do not read all of Luke's posts, but if someone posts something to me that truly bothers me, then either I need it or ignore it, not keep whining about it. And that is what this appears to be- at least to me.

 

[Luke2427]

Yes, because in Matthew 4 Satan also tried to get Jesus to not go to the cross. Jesus saw Satan in Peter as if Satan himself had returned to tempt him once more. I believe Jesus was actually addressing Satan here.

Jesus was righteous in His judgement and his anger at Peter.

We are righteous in neither judgement or anger, so I don't see how this justifies your anger and judgement of any christian that disagrees with you.

Has it occured to you that you just might be just as wrong as the people/argument you are condemning?

John

You said Jesus only had sweet words for his followers.

Jesus called Peter Satan.

You were wrong.

just admit it. That is the first step toward the positive change any man needs. He must first have the humility to say, "I was wrong."

 

[Amy.G]

You are wrong, Amy.

Well of course I am. :laugh:
Have you ever agreed with me on anything?

When a man says that his version of the Bible is the only reliable version in the world today and that all others are perversions- that man has blatantly undermined the doctrine of inspiration.

I just left my church of several years because the pastor claimed this very thing, so I am against it. But I know the pastor loves the Lord. He is in error and I pray the Lord corrects him. But I did not scream heretic at him when I left. I told him why I was leaving, told him the truth, but I did it in love. What he does with it is between him and God. This is where I think you go wrong. Tell the truth, yes. But you don't have to be rude and condescending. We do our job and trust God to do His.