is the NEW nature In Christ the Holy Spirit Indwelling us?

[Robert Snow]

If we do not have both natures, as a Christian, why does Romans 12:2 urge us to not be conformed to the present world? After all, if we only have the new nature toward God, we would only follow this nature and do that which is pleasing to God.

BTW, I asked freeatlast in another thread to define what "practices" sin means. Why is he afraid to answer?

 

[convicted1]

Scripture?

You may not accept this(you rarely accept anything other than your own):

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


As sinners, our first inclination was to serve ourself. After salvation, we look to put the Brethern above ourself.


Philippians 2:2-4
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.


The old nature was about "us". The new nature(old being changed by God), is about putting everybody else first ahead of us.

 

[freeatlast]

If we do not have both natures, as a Christian, why does Romans 12:2 urge us to not be conformed to the present world? After all, if we only have the new nature toward God, we would only follow this nature and do that which is pleasing to God.

BTW, I asked freeatlast in another thread to define what "practices" sin means. Why is he afraid to answer?

I have answered the question about what it means to practice sin many many times, and I am surprised you have not read it. However a short answer is the person is sinning as a way of life. They are not shocked by their sin and neither is anyone else as it is their habit.

As to Romans 12:2 you first have to read Romans 12:1 and because of the therefor verse it sends you back to what he was talking about in the previous chapter and it has nothing to do with two natures. Paul is saying now that you have been given all this use it to have your minds changed to think and act like Christ. That means no sin at all. We are already kept from practicing sin 1John 3:9. Now we are left to get rid of the rest. It has nothing to do with two natures.

 

[freeatlast]

You may not accept this(you rarely accept anything other than your own):

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


As sinners, our first inclination was to serve ourself. After salvation, we look to put the Brethern above ourself.


Philippians 2:2-4
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.


The old nature was about "us". The new nature(old being changed by God), is about putting everybody else first ahead of us.

While I agree with those scripture verses I do not agree with what you said. Here is what you said;
"The new nature is the old nature resurrected from death to life."
No place does the scripture even hint to that. We are not new from dead. We are new as in new from nothing, not new from the junkyard.

 

[convicted1]

I have answered the question about what it means to practice sin many many times, and I am surprised you have not read it. However a short answer is the person is sinning as a way of life. They are not shocked by their sin and neither is anyone else as it is their habit.

As to Romans 12:2 you first have to read Romans 12:1 and because of the therefor verse it sends you back to what he was talking about in the previous chapter and it has nothing to do with two natures. Paul is saying now that you have been given all this use it to have your minds changed to think and act like Christ. That means no sin at all. We are already kept from practicing sin 1John 3:9. Now we are left to get rid of the rest. It has nothing to do with two natures.

I may be in the minority here, Brother, but I agree with you that no true blood bought CHRISTian will continue in sin(i.e. practice sin). Also, we have only one nature, and who ever we serve, whether it be satan, or God, our nature is bent in that direction.

 

[Robert Snow]

I may be in the minority here, Brother, but I agree with you that no true blood bought CHRISTian will continue in sin(i.e. practice sin). Also, we have only one nature, and who ever we serve, whether it be satan, or God, our nature is bent in that direction.

Since freeatlast won't answer, maybe you will. What does it mean to "practice" sin or "continue" in sin? If an alcoholic is saved and then after some years goes back to drinking and binging, how long before he is "practicing" sin? What if he binges once or twice for a week? What if he starts getting drunk daily or weekly for a year or two. How about after a few years of this he comes back to Christ; does he need to be saved, or just get right with God? What if after twenty years he relapses?

Looks like saying "practice" is so ambiguous it is almost meaningless.

 

[freeatlast]

I may be in the minority here, Brother, but I agree with you that no true blood bought CHRISTian will continue in sin(i.e. practice sin). Also, we have only one nature, and who ever we serve, whether it be satan, or God, our nature is bent in that direction.

Amen! :thumbs:

 

[freeatlast]

Since freeatlast won't answer, maybe you will. What does it mean to "practice" sin or "continue" in sin? If an alcoholic is saved and then after some years goes back to drinking and binging, how long before he is "practicing" sin? What if he binges once or twice for a week? What if he starts getting drunk daily or weekly for a year or two. How about after a few years of this he comes back to Christ; does he need to be saved, or just get right with God? What if after twenty years he relapses?

Looks like saying "practice" is so ambiguous it is almost meaningless.

Robert I did answer you and have many times. It is not about time. It is about character. Alcoholism is the result of a choice. No one becomes an alcoholic because they kiss one or set near one. It comes from a choice. You are trying to find a way around the word of God. No believer will practice sin, period. It is impossible because His seed abides in us. Instead of trying to get around the word of God believe it as not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will inherit eternal life. Many will hear "I never knew you." The gate is narrow and the path is straight not wide and crooked as you seem to want it.
It is not the practice of a Christian to sin.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

True believrs practice righteousness.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Robert Snow]

Robert I did answer you and have many times. It is not about time. It is about character. Alcoholism is the result of a choice. No one becomes an alcoholic because they kiss one or set near one. It comes from a choice. You are trying to find a way around the word of God. No believer will practice sin, period. It is impossible because His seed abides in us. Instead of trying to get around the word of God believe it as not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will inherit eternal life. Many will hear "I never knew you." The gate is narrow and the path is straight not wide and crooked as you seem to want it.
It is not the practice of a Christian to sin.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

True believrs practice righteousness.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Could a Christian get drunk once and still be a Christian? How about three times? What if he lost his temper once a day for fourteen and one-half days? Would he then lose his salvation?

 

[freeatlast]

Could a Christian get drunk once and still be a Christian? How about three times? What if he lost his temper once a day for fourteen and one-half days? Would he then lose his salvation?

Robert you are still trying to get around scripture. True believers do not practice sin. Salvation cannot be lost but believers do not practice sin.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Sinning is not the practice of a believer righteousness is.

 

[Robert Snow]

Robert you are still trying to get around scripture. True believers do not practice sin. Salvation cannot be lost but believers do not practice sin.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Sinning is not the practice of a believer righteousness is.

I am trying to get you to explain yourself. At what point does a Christian committing a sin fall into the practice of sin?

 

[freeatlast]

I am trying to get you to explain yourself. At what point does a Christian committing a sin fall into the practice of sin?

No you are not getting it! A Christian cannot practice sin. A Christian cannot fall into the practice of sin. It is impossible because the seed of God remains in them and they cannot practice sin.
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

We are kept from the practice of sin by the seed of God. We are left to get rid of any sin we might do. Our practice is to live righteously. We might sin from time to time but it is not our practice.

 

[JesusFan]

Robert you are still trying to get around scripture. True believers do not practice sin. Salvation cannot be lost but believers do not practice sin.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Sinning is not the practice of a believer righteousness is.

A christian cannot continue to sin without God chaistasment coming upon him in some form, and as long as his persists , he will experience loss of empowering/loss of fellowship, and just feel that God is "gone away"

 

[JesusFan]

No you are not getting it! A Christian cannot practice sin. A Christian cannot fall into the practice of sin. It is impossible because the seed of God remains in them and they cannot practice sin.
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

We are kept from the practice of sin by the seed of God. We are left to get rid of any sin we might do. Our practice is to live righteously. We might sin from time to time but it is not our practice.

IF a christian fimds himself in a situation that he has submitted to doing what his flesh desires him to do, should he just say was never saved by God, or that he should realise that he needs to confess/repent/forsake, and come back to God for cleansing and rempowering again?

 

[freeatlast]

A christian cannot continue to sin without God chaistasment coming upon him in some form, and as long as his persists , he will experience loss of empowering/loss of fellowship, and just feel that God is "gone away"

The lost who think they are saved can feel the same things because of conscience. Our relationship is not about feelings. I know of a pastor who thought he was saved for 10 years while leading a church and one day got saved through his own preaching. I have a friend who is married to a preacher, her father was a preacher, and she was in the church every time the doors were open, taught Sunday school, and did all the things so called Christians do, asking Jesus into her heart, being baptized and thinking she was saved but she was lost. She finally got saved under the preaching of her husband. If what we experience does not agree with the bible we are not saved.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not (practice) righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[JesusFan]

Robert you are still trying to get around scripture. True believers do not practice sin. Salvation cannot be lost but believers do not practice sin.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Sinning is not the practice of a believer righteousness is.

PLEASE define for us what "practicing sin" means to a believer!

You seem to say that a true Christian will no longer be sinning, than say that one can sin, yet not practice it?

Than say cannot habitually sin?

I am sure that the Bible teaches we have old sinful nature and the new nature at same time....

Depends which "horse you feed" if you will sin or not!

IF you hold to JUST a new nature,then what is it that woukld cause us to be tempted and sin!

 

[Robert Snow]

A christian cannot continue to sin without God chaistasment coming upon him in some form, and as long as his persists , he will experience loss of empowering/loss of fellowship, and just feel that God is "gone away"

IF a christian fimds himself in a situation that he has submitted to doing what his flesh desires him to do, should he just say was never saved by God, or that he should realise that he needs to confess/repent/forsake, and come back to God for cleansing and rempowering again?

FINALLY! This is what I have been trying to explain to freeatlast, but you said it so much better than I could.

He doesn't see that his viewpoint of what 1John is saying is in gross error. It presents salvation in an impossible light. First someone is saved, later they have a sin problem, perhaps something they have to deal with over and over that is a stumbling block. According to freeatlast this means they were never saved in the first place. Of course, this is because his interpretation is wrong. Because, if what he says is correct it more or less means a works salvation.

A person repents, trusts Jesus' death and resurrection, they are saved. Now they find themselves sinning. This means, according to freeatlast, they were never saved. So, they again repent, and for a while things are going alright. Later, sin again, oops they must not be saved; their works don't comply with God. They again, must be lost. They repent again... A spiritual vicious circle! This would mean that their salvation really depended on their works, not God's grace. In this way freeatlast is in error.

Thank you for showing the truth about this situation. Just look at 1Cor.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NKJV)
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[freeatlast]

PLEASE define for us what "practicing sin" means to a believer!

You seem to say that a true Christian will no longer be sinning, than say that one can sin, yet not practice it?

Than say cannot habitually sin?

I am sure that the Bible teaches we have old sinful nature and the new nature at same time....

Depends which "horse you feed" if you will sin or not!

IF you hold to JUST a new nature,then what is it that woukld cause us to be tempted and sin!

My answer is the same as before.

 

[convicted1]

Since freeatlast won't answer, maybe you will. What does it mean to "practice" sin or "continue" in sin? If an alcoholic is saved and then after some years goes back to drinking and binging, how long before he is "practicing" sin? What if he binges once or twice for a week? What if he starts getting drunk daily or weekly for a year or two. How about after a few years of this he comes back to Christ; does he need to be saved, or just get right with God? What if after twenty years he relapses?

Looks like saying "practice" is so ambiguous it is almost meaningless.

Well, Brother Robert, I will do my best to support my claim with the Word of God. First, let's look at the scritpure that has been debated:

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Look @ verse nine. Here, John is referring to the "inner man", and not our physical body. What has been born of God(born again/born from above) is the soul, and the flesh is still in it's condemned flesh. This soul, once the Father has cleansed it, can not sin, because it is made perfect. It is clothed in the righteousness of God, via the Lamb's precious blood. The physical body didn't obtain this, and is still in rebellion towards God.

Now, whenever the physical body begins to stray, the soul, through the working of the Spirit, brings this man back under subjection. If you see someone who continually does the same sinful deeds, you'd best mark him/her with an "x". The tree is known by it's fruit, and we are known by our works. If someone continues to "hit the bars", chase the girls, drink all the time, tell tall tales, curse, are these fruit from a good tree? I trow not. That is what I mean. I am not stating we don't stumble, neither live a life of sinless perfection. However, we won't continue making the same mistakes over, and over, and over, and over........

 

[percho]

My answer is the same as before.

Would you agree that Jesus is the only man to have experienced the following?

(1) And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. John 1:14, Matt. 1:25, 1 John 4:2,3 Rom. 1:3 Gal. 3:16

(2) the last Adam (man) a quickening spirit.
Col. 1:18, Acts 13:33 Acts 2:33 Titus 3:5

Howbeit that not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

After the resurrection.

Would you also agree that Jesus the Christ is the only man only to have had the natural (flesh nature) and then the spirit (spiritual)?

Could these be construed as two natures? One pre resurrection and the other post resurrection?