Surrender is a good word for repentance. It is coming to the end of self. Surrendering to Christ will be followed by a sense of Lordship.
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Lordship Salvation
- Thread starter CF1
- Start date
Surrender is a good word for repentance. It is coming to the end of self. Surrendering to Christ will be followed by a sense of Lordship.
freeatlast
New Member
I certainly hold to Lordship salvation. I hold that because the bible says repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance has to be 100% towards God or it is not repentance at all. Then we are take that heart and place it on the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Savior Jesus Christ, and the new birth takes place.
At that point our repentance and faith are sealed and we live in a state of repentance and faith never able to lose our salvation.
At that point our repentance and faith are sealed and we live in a state of repentance and faith never able to lose our salvation.
I honestly have no idea with all the negativity in regards to LS. Look, we can not work long enough, or hard enough to obtain salvation, that is true. But one must sell out to the world, and give everything to Christ in order to be saved. Jesus found more favor in one widow woman's two mites than the others who were giving of their abundance. She gave her last two mites. She gave all she had. God wants 100%, and nothing else is acceptable.
:applause::thumbsup: yeah Willis:thumbsup:
Tom Butler
New Member
I can remember hearing personal testimonies, where the believer would say something like this:
"I accepted Jesus as my Savior at age 9, but did not make him my Lord until much later."
That sounded really good. Until one day this verse hit me right between the eyes:
Romans 10:9a
Jesus saves, then, those who confess him as Lord.
Romans 10:13 says God will save all those who call on the name of the Lord.
Not Savior, but Lord.
Paul and Silas told the Philippian jailer
Seems to me that one is saved who declares him his Lord from the very first, not as some later event following conversion.
Now this may not be Lordship Salvation as generally defined, but it's the way I see it.
I am very leery of any salvation experience which does not produce a desire for Jesus to be Lord as well as Savior. Salvation which does not change one is not salvation at all.
"I accepted Jesus as my Savior at age 9, but did not make him my Lord until much later."
That sounded really good. Until one day this verse hit me right between the eyes:
Romans 10:9a
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Jesus saves, then, those who confess him as Lord.
Romans 10:13 says God will save all those who call on the name of the Lord.
Not Savior, but Lord.
Paul and Silas told the Philippian jailer
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved.
Seems to me that one is saved who declares him his Lord from the very first, not as some later event following conversion.
Now this may not be Lordship Salvation as generally defined, but it's the way I see it.
I am very leery of any salvation experience which does not produce a desire for Jesus to be Lord as well as Savior. Salvation which does not change one is not salvation at all.
Those who reject Lordship salvation are failing to make the link between justification and sanctification. Sanctification is progressive; we are becoming more like Christ in our behavior. As our level of sanctification progresses we may come to a place in our life, often more than once, where we recognize certain levels of disobedience or immaturity in our walk. During these time(s) some may decide to surrender all of their life to Christ; i.e. recognize Him as Lord of their life. While this is a wonderful thing (to repent from sin and commit to follow God), it is simply the ongoing work of sanctification in the life of a believer. Jesus is Prophet, Priest, and King. He is Immanuel, the Son of God, the Bread of Life, the Lamb of God. He is Lord. These titles and positions are inherently His; they are not dependent on our response.
convicted1
Guest
Are you saying that the commitment to Christ is 100% at conversion, and then decreases from there?
I would tend to think that one can come to christ even through doubts, and imperfect faith, so long as the faith, however weak, is IN CHRIST. And then our commitment grows over our life as we mature in the faith.
Part 1, nope.
Part 2, when we came to Christ, we came to Him not knowing much of anything, other than that we were lost, and without His saving Grace, we were goners. So, yes, when we came to Christ in weakness, we came looking and asking for that blessed hope in Him.
convicted1
Guest
Surrender is a good word for repentance. It is coming to the end of self. Surrendering to Christ will be followed by a sense of Lordship.
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
W/O repentence, you do not have salvation.......
I can remember hearing personal testimonies, where the believer would say something like this:
"I accepted Jesus as my Savior at age 9, but did not make him my Lord until much later."
That sounded really good. Until one day this verse hit me right between the eyes:
Romans 10:9a
Jesus saves, then, those who confess him as Lord.
Romans 10:13 says God will save all those who call on the name of the Lord.
Not Savior, but Lord.
Paul and Silas told the Philippian jailer
Seems to me that one is saved who declares him his Lord from the very first, not as some later event following conversion.
Now this may not be Lordship Salvation as generally defined, but it's the way I see it.
I am very leery of any salvation experience which does not produce a desire for Jesus to be Lord as well as Savior. Salvation which does not change one is not salvation at all.
I think this is a good post. I would not go as far as to say Lord comes first then salvation or vice versa. I don't know that these verses prove a placement in soteriology, but rather an essential aspect. We know that faith and regeneration are simultaneous acts that go hand in hand, as is Lordship and faith. One could ask, who are we surrendering to? It is of course the Lord of all creation who bought you with a immeasurable price.
Let me ask a question. Do you believe we have to repent to be saved?
Yes, of course.
Those who reject Lordship salvation are failing to make the link between justification and sanctification. Sanctification is progressive; we are becoming more like Christ in our behavior. As our level of sanctification progresses we may come to a place in our life, often more than once, where we recognize certain levels of disobedience or immaturity in our walk. During these time(s) some may decide to surrender all of their life to Christ; i.e. recognize Him as Lord of their life. While this is a wonderful thing (to repent from sin and commit to follow God), it is simply the ongoing work of sanctification in the life of a believer. Jesus is Prophet, Priest, and King. He is Immanuel, the Son of God, the Bread of Life, the Lamb of God. He is Lord. These titles and positions are inherently His; they are not dependent on our response.
I think Herald is spot on! However, I guess I just don't call this Lordship salvation.
I can remember hearing personal testimonies, where the believer would say something like this:
"I accepted Jesus as my Savior at age 9, but did not make him my Lord until much later."
That sounded really good. Until one day this verse hit me right between the eyes:
Romans 10:9a
Jesus saves, then, those who confess him as Lord.
Romans 10:13 says God will save all those who call on the name of the Lord.
Not Savior, but Lord.
Paul and Silas told the Philippian jailer
Seems to me that one is saved who declares him his Lord from the very first, not as some later event following conversion.
Now this may not be Lordship Salvation as generally defined, but it's the way I see it.
I am very leery of any salvation experience which does not produce a desire for Jesus to be Lord as well as Savior. Salvation which does not change one is not salvation at all.
I think there are many people who would give testimony like you described, who actually were saved at the earlier time, but simply did not have the theological language to describe it. Though they may say they "surrendered," or "made Jesus Lord" or "re-dedicated" later, if you pressed further you might find that they did, upon thier accepting of Jesus as savior, they DID also want to live for him, and begin submitting parts of thier lives to him. They simply did not have the language to describe it at the time, and like all of us, once or many times later, they discovered that they needed to increase thier dedication to Christ.
freeatlast
New Member
I think there are many people who would give testimony like you described, who actually were saved at the earlier time, but simply did not have the theological language to describe it. Though they may say they "surrendered," or "made Jesus Lord" or "re-dedicated" later, if you pressed further you might find that they did, upon thier accepting of Jesus as savior, they DID also want to live for him, and begin submitting parts of thier lives to him. They simply did not have the language to describe it at the time, and like all of us, once or many times later, they discovered that they needed to increase thier dedication to Christ.
Brother I would take issue with your scenario. These same people are many times those who over and over come forward in what has been termed as
rededication, which is not even biblical.
What I believe they do is try and come to Jesus without coming to repentance towards God and yes they have those things you mention but not salvation. That is why I asked you if you believed repentance is needed for salvation. Repentance is not done partially it is 100% or it is not repentance.It is a state we live in and every day it is new, just like our faith and as we learn of the Lord new things we give those also.
Multitudes want a Savior who will pay the debt for their sin, but few are willing to turn to God to get it.
Praise God that they finally do come and get saved, but I do not believe this is an improper understanding of theological language. This is a heart issue that they have not surrendered to Almighty God and until they do that they won't have Jesus as Lord. That is one reason I never offer salvation without the question are you ready to get right with God no matter what it may cost you. Of course the cost is faith in Jesus as Lord. Sadly many say no they are not ready to go that far they just want a ticket to heaven.
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I certainly hold to Lordship salvation. I hold that because the bible says repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance has to be 100% towards God or it is not repentance at all. Then we are take that heart and place it on the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Savior Jesus Christ, and the new birth takes place.
At that point our repentance and faith are sealed and we live in a state of repentance and faith never able to lose our salvation.
I think the problem I have with this is how do you define what is 100% repentance? I believe you must repent and believe to be saved. But what good does it do to say we must repent 100%? I'm not sure what that means.
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
W/O repentence, you do not have salvation.......
Yes, but what do we repent of?
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God.
What are we supposed to repent of? DEAD WORKS.
Work will not save you. We must place faith in Jesus alone to save us. It is a FREE GIFT. If you have to work to be saved, then it is not free.
Now, that said, once we are saved we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin and practice righteousness. But our salvation is FREE.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Did these persons call Jesus Lord? YES! In fact, it is emphasized, being said TWICE!
Did these persons do works? YES. They prophesied about Jesus, they cast out devils, they did many wonderful works.
Then why weren't they saved? Because they trusted in their works to save them and not Jesus alone.
Jn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
What did Jesus say we have to do here? Feed the poor? Stop sinning? NO. He said we must BELIEVE ON HIM.
Faith is not works, it is a ceasing of works and depending on Jesus alone to save you.
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freeatlast
New Member
I think the problem I have with this is how do you define what is 100% repentance? I believe you must repent and believe to be saved. But what good does it do to say we must repent 100%? I'm not sure what that means.
Yes I agree using that way to define it is confusing. The scripture says repentance towards God. The Greek word for repent holds a meaning of a 180 degree turn. It is like a military marching and someone says "about face." It is a 180 turn from, to God. True repentance is turning to God, not sort of turning to God.
While we turn all we know at the time of coming, 100%, as we grow and learn we find more to surrender and that too is done if salvation was real.
The person who is coming for salvation that has not made up their mind to turn to God (repent) does not get saved. It is not "well I will try Him out and then decide" type thing, or I am not ready to go that far yet type of thing.
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Brother I would take issue with your scenario. These same people are many times those who over and over come forward in what has been termed as
rededication, which is not even biblical.
I agree that what we often see as "rededication" is not biblical. I don't beleive their is some 2nd act of didication after savation. But each of us should be renewing out dedication to Christ daily, or more.
What I believe they do is try and come to Jesus without coming to repentance towards God and yes they have those things you mention but not salvation. That is why I asked you if you believed repentance is needed for salvation. Repentance is not done partially it is 100% or it is not repentance.It is a state we live in and every day it is new, just like our faith and as we learn of the Lord new things we give those also.
Multitudes want a Savior who will pay the debt for their sin, but few are willing to turn to God to get it.
Praise God that they finally do come and get saved, but I do not believe this is an improper understanding of theological language. This is a heart issue that they have not surrendered to Almighty God and until they do that they won't have Jesus as Lord. That is one reason I never offer salvation without the question are you ready to get right with God no matter what it may cost you. Of course the cost is faith in Jesus as Lord. Sadly many say no they are not ready to go that far they just want a ticket to heaven.
I also agree that a life-change WILL accompany conversion. I believe that a true conversion will be evidenced by a heart that wants to submit to Christ. However, I think it gets very difficult when you start trying to define what it looks like for any particular person to make Jesus Your Lord.
I think it would lead to a person Trusting in the cross to save them at one point in time, then later "making christ Lord" by giving up a particular sin, at which point you would then declare them saved. I think this would lead to all sorts of questions and problems about whether it is faith in Christ or is it the giving up of certain sins (works) that assures your salvation?
freeatlast
New Member
Yes, but what do we repent of?
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God.
What are we supposed to repent of? DEAD WORKS.
Work will not save you. We must place faith in Jesus alone to save us. It is a FREE GIFT. If you have to work to be saved, then it is not free.
Now, that said, once we are saved we are to reckon ourselves dead to sin and practice righteousness. But our salvation is FREE.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Did these persons call Jesus Lord? YES! In fact, it is emphasized, being said TWICE!
Did these persons do works? YES. They prophesied about Jesus, they cast out devils, they did many wonderful works.
Then why weren't they saved? Because they trusted in their works to save them and not Jesus alone.
Jn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
What did Jesus say we have to do here? Feed the poor? Stop sinning? NO. He said we must BELIEVE ON HIM.
Faith is not works, it is a ceasing of works and depending on Jesus alone to save you.
NO! NO! NO! We are not repenting OF anything! No place in the NT are we told to repent of sin. Any preacher that preaches that or teacher who teaches that is preaching a false gospel! We are repenting towards God. Acts 20:21
Many people are willing to repent of perceived sin. They will agree to stop lying, cussing, stealing, drinking, and so on (all works) but the one thing they are not wiling to do is turn to God. They never get saved no matter how much they ask Jesus into their heart or believe everything about Him and some even go on to seminary and take up churches in their lost state making others twice the sons of hell.
This is why so many in the church are not really saved, Matt 7:21 They are repenting of sin, which is a work, thinking God will accept them and He won’t because they are not repenting towards God. Then they live defeated lives and are called Christians when they are not. Turning from sin is the evidence, result, of repentance towards God and putting faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Turning from sin is not what God calls for to become saved.
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freeatlast
New Member
I agree that what we often see as "rededication" is not biblical. I don't beleive their is some 2nd act of didication after savation. But each of us should be renewing out dedication to Christ daily, or more.
I also agree that a life-change WILL accompany conversion. I believe that a true conversion will be evidenced by a heart that wants to submit to Christ. However, I think it gets very difficult when you start trying to define what it looks like for any particular person to make Jesus Your Lord.
I think it would lead to a person Trusting in the cross to save them at one point in time, then later "making christ Lord" by giving up a particular sin, at which point you would then declare them saved. I think this would lead to all sorts of questions and problems about whether it is faith in Christ or is it the giving up of certain sins (works) that assures your salvation?
I never declare anyone saved. I never tell a person they are saved, NEVER! I point them to the scriptures as to what follows a real believer, every believer, and explain what it means and let the Spirit of God through the word of God give them assurance based on what the bible says. If they leave in doubt then that is good because they may not be saved and the Spirit can work on them. I have had some shout with joy because their experience agrees with scripture and others say that is not me. The latter I ask if they would like to do what it takes to get right with God and sadly most say no they are not ready. So I just pray for them letting them know tomorrow is not ours. It is not possible to be in repentance towards God and not surrendered to Him (His absolute authority) at the same time.
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NO! NO! NO! We are not repenting OF anything. We are repenting towards God. Acts 20:21
Many people are willing to repent of perceived sin. They will agree to stop lying, cussing, stealing and so on (all works) but the one thing they are not wiling to do it turn to God. They never get saved no matter how much they ask Jesus into their heart or believe everything about Him.
This is why so many in the church are not really saved, Matt 7:21 They are repenting of sin, which is a work, thinking God will accept them and He won’t because they are not repenting towards God. Then they live defeated lives and are called Christians when they are not.
You seem to be changing your tune. You constantly talk about making Jesus your Lord and stopping sinning. NOBODY ever completely stops sinning, not even you.
We are to repent of trusting in our own righteousness and ability to save ourselves, and trust Jesus alone to save us.
Once we trust Jesus we receive the Holy Spirit. We are a new creation. Now we will NATURALLY turn from sin. However, we are still in this FLESHLY body and will be tempted by it. And while there is no excuse, we all at times give in and obey the flesh. At these moments we are not obeying Jesus as our Lord. But thank God, he has promised to never leave us nor forsake us, although we are often unfaithful to him.
But when you teach a person has to stop sinning to be saved, this is works salvation and not depending on Jesus alone to save you.