You misunderstood.
I stated clearly that all that process takes place IN Christ. I agree that there is no life outside of the only one who is "The Life."
I did not misunderstand anything; I knew what you meant, and I disagree with your assessment. In Christ means what it says,
in Christ, nothing more, nothing less. One can not be in a regenerated state and not have salvation, and one can not have salvation, and not be in a regenerated state. IOW, one is not regenerated and then given life down the road. Salvation comes in one lump sum.
Again, I don't disagree. What you state is true. The fact is that the believer is chosen long before they ever come to an intellectual awareness. That choosing isn't man generated, and there is no "sinner's prayer" that magically opens heaven's ears.
I agree with you in regards to the "sinner's prayer", such as the "repeat after me" yucky prayer. Now, I do believe in praying to God, asking Him to save them from their sins. Again, it states chosen
in Christ before the foundation of the world. How can a sinner be in Christ, while being a sinner at that time? When we are saved, we are placed in Christ, and inherit His election. He was/is God's chosen vessel, and election starts and stops with Him.
Salvation isn't based upon the proclamation of man. There are those who say if you don't say a certain prayer a certain way, you aren't saved. NOT!!!! Salvation is determined by God. Man's new nature cannot help but cry out at birth, just as the believer cannot. However, does the baby cry out before actual birth? Are they any less a baby? The vocal birth of the believer doesn't mean there was no existence as a child of God from "the foundations of the world."
Salvation is of God is correct, I agree 100%. But, man isn't given a new nature until they are saved and placed in Christ. This is when the "new man" comes in, and they then walk in the newness of life. One can not walk in the newness of life w/o salvation taking place in their life.
I disagree.
Paul talks about salvation as a continual process. The baptists have long held to the condition of the believer as: Have been saved, Am saved, Will be saved.
Salvation is a continual process? Wow!! Look, I am as much saved now, as I was the very instant He saved me. You can not be placed deeper in Christ than we are now. Granted, I am stronger in faith, and by His grace, I have more knowledge, but my salvation hasn't increased one iota. If I am blessed to live another 20 years, I will not be any more saved than I am now. Granted, with His help, my faith will be stronger and my knowledge deeper, but my salvation was completed May 24th, 2007.
Certainly we do not Crucify Christ again. But, Paul said he died daily, crucified the flesh, and other such terms that showed a need to continually walk in the Spirit so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The same is as a child after birth. They don't go repeating the birth, but show by continued breathing, feeding, crying... that they are alive.
I agree with this. But this child HAS life, which is evidence of a birth taking place. This birth takes place the very instant salvation comes into a sinner's life.
The new birth doesn't mean we are grown up. Both Paul and Peter instructed that we are to add to the faith that God gave us. This doesn't mean the faith is enlarged, it means that the faith is adorned with precious character items that make us more and more Christ like.
Correct, when we are saved, we are new born babies in Christ, and not before.
Again, the regeneration and salvation are ongoing. The conception is the merely the start.
My salvation is secure in God's hand, who raised me from a dead state of sin(seperated from God) to a lively hope(being placed in Christ, therefore restoring communion with God). I do not understand what you mean by the word "ongoing", please explain.
Ah, but again there is a misunderstanding. Look at the work of the Holy spirit to the world - sin, righteousness, judgment. God doesn't have to "show us" our lost condition, it is already known. Instead, knowing we have no ability to conceive salvation nor the new life, God plants those in us, to grow and to bring us to express sinfulness and His great salvation.
God works with us through the Spirit, showing us our fallen state. Those who willfully receive Him, will be saved.
From the moment that God starts this process we are "in Christ." Remember Jesus prayer? "Father all that you have given me..." Where the disciples, disciples, before they new they were disciples? Yes. For God had given them to Christ. They just didn't know it. It was already a done deal from God to Christ.
Nope. One can not be made alive and then placed in Christ @ a later date. That is like darkness having communion with Light. It can't be done. Remember, the Spirit hadn't been given to anyone until after Jesus breathed upon them, and they received the Spirit(John 20:22). So they were given to Christ, which is correct, but they got the Spirit later, after Jesus was resurrected. Now, those who are saved, get the Spirit at that very moment, and placed in Christ.
I disagree. Every man is a sinner even after salvation. That is the waring that takes place between the old nature and the new creature created in Christ Jesus.
"Every man is a sinner"??
I am not a sinner. I am a CHRISTian saved by God's Grace, and I am no longer a sinner. That's like saying I am a CHRISTian that is still in darkness. Sorry, but I am saved by His Grace. I am not perfect, but I am not a sinner now.
The Holy Spirit has no fellowship with the old nature, that is true. But Christ lives in me and so does the old nature that still desires the things of the flesh.
Man does not have two natures. The Spirit comes in, and drives the wicked one out. Satan and his minions may buffett your flesh, but you only have one nature, and that is bent towards God.
Hallelujah!!
Just asking, but when God saved you, are you sure it wasn't at the foundations of the world and you just accepted the fact on May 24th because God was impressing his claim upon your living?
Nope. If I was saved at the foundation of the world, then Christ did not die for me. Again, that's like saying that darkness has communion with Light.
The reason I ask is because some folks place the ability of accepting (and also rejecting) as their choice. But as I have looked at the Old Testament prophets, and the New Testament believers there doesn't seem to be any "ability indicators." People were chosen because God chose them.
Choose
you this day whom you will serve(Joshua 24:15). I set before you a blessing and a curse. Therefore
Choose life(Deut. 30:19).
Just because you were "for ordained" doesn't diminish the importance of the experience of accepting Christ. Each experience of a believer accepting Christ is unique to that believer which demonstrates at least two things.
First, that we are not clones and robots to God. He comes to us as individuals, creating in us individually, molding us to fit His purpose that others can't fit. He is the master builder with unique plans for each believer.
Second, that God wants us to know the sinfulness of sin and the graciousness of His salvation. I am convinced the deeper the conviction the more God becomes the Lord of our lives.
Christ was "foreordained", and we who are saved, are grafted into His "foreordainment". Election starts and ends with Jesus Christ. Please read John 15 and His illistration of the vine and branches. The Jews were in the Vine(Jesus), and due to there being no fruit(unbelief), those branches were cut out of that Vine. Then we(Gentiles) were grafted into the Vine.
I like your phone illustration. It shows that God does the calling.
You are also correct (in my opinion) about the many who will be lost. "Broad is the way..."
They will be lost because they are like Adam at the fall. When face to face with the very God that he before had walked, talked, and had fellowship in the cool of the evening as no man has ever done (except Christ) he blamed, excused and argued. God poured out the Holy Spirit on the whole world, and the world is without excuse.
I agree that those who die lost have no excuse. When they knew God, and did not recognize Him as God, their foolish hearts were darkened. It's those who reject God's calling that will die lost.
