Anger, wrath, selfishness, stubbornness -- sounds like a Calvinist describing his idea of the character of God to me. Which of these is a sin, btw? Can you show me the chapter and verse?
Eph 4:31
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Do you cognitively recognize how desperate you sound when you talk about your own experiences as a father? It sounds like you utterly failed as a father and are now trying to justify yourself. Trying to blame God for failing at a responsibility He gave you to train up your children in the way they should go.
Always make something personal when you cannot deal with Biblical substance! I could just as easily say you sound as a father who denies your children have faults? You sound like you better than thou and live above sin and your children are simply a chip of the old PERFECT block!! I just admit the truth while you live in a fairy tale land of polyanna.
When Adam sinned, do you believe he had a sin nature that forced him to do so? Since you are a committed Calvinist, you must believe that God forced him to sin, just as he forced you to sin, and forced your children to sin as well, eh?
No to all the above! Sin entered Adam from the outside but when it did it took up the mastery on the inside and it is this kind of human nature he passed down to his posterity with indwelling sin!
Adam chose to sin willfully against the light of truth (1 Tim. 2:12).
Anger
Num 11:1 And [when] the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard [it]; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed [them that were] in the uttermost parts of the camp.
Wrath
Exd 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it [is] a stiffnecked people:
10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
I never spoke about JUSITIFIED anger or wrath! BTW the term "selfishness" and "Stubborness" cannot be applied to God. God is not "selfish" because "selfishness" has a negative connotation that implies UNJUST preeminence while God by His very nature JUSTLY deserves preeminence.
Nor can Immutability be defined as "stubborness" as immutability has to do with the PERMENANCE of divine attributes rather than tempormental definance! We are discussiong temporance as defiance against what is right not persistance in what is right.
Answer me this - was Adam's eyes opened when he lusted or after he bit into the fruit?
Opened to what is the correct question! He knew he sinned when he determined to willfully eat the fruit but the action brought the intent to completion. What his eyes were opened to was the KNOWLEDGE of sin by EXPERIENCE of conscience that condemned what he did!
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons
Lust leads to sin, and sin, when it is finished, leads to death. Lust doesn't result in death. Lust results in sin, and sin results in death.
This was not Adam but Eve and the nature of the sin was not the same (1 Tim. 2:12). Adam's desire that led to his sin was not deception based upon the physical attributes of the fruit or Satan's deceptive description of its potential spiritual attributes.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
The Bible is very clear who is to blame for lust and sin. It did NOT come from God.
Never said it did come from God! That is your pure imagination at work! Always from the beginning of this discussion have used this text and denied it came from God. Finally, you wake up! Good!
Is the sin nature required for a person to sin?
Not in a prefallen Adam! But we are not products of a Pre-fallen Adam are we because "by one man's offence many were made......" As Jesus said it is the heart that is the source of all sin and such sin is "bound up IN THE HEART of a child" from birth!
Did Adam have a sin nature when he sinned?
That is the point! Adam without a sin nature was the most qualified human being to be tested as the representative of all his poserterity which were in his own loins when he acted in behalf for "by one man's offence many became......." and therefore "IN Adam all men die."
Post-fallen man sin because they are sinners by nature and in infants it is clearly seen by omission of the image of God and by coming short of the glory of God in all they do as they grow more capable of self-expression.
You should learn the distinction between a sin and a motive that leads to sin.
You should learn the difference between sin as a willful act and sin as a wrong intent behind all actions:
1. The intent of the heart is included in such commands to love the Lord thy God with ALL thine heart, soul, mind, etc.
2. The intent of the heart is included and defined by such passages as that deal with purpose for why and what you do:
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
This is precisely why men are sinners by nature and not just by actions because the intent of their hearts comes under the definition of sin. This is why infants are born with a sinful nature because they do not do anything for the glory of God, and thus come short of the glory of God in everything they do.
This is precisely why Jesus says sin originates from the heart (Mt. 15) not the actions.
This is why Jesus said "there IS NONE good but one and that is God."
This is why Job said,
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. 5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;......Job 15: What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
This is why David said,
Psa. 58:2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Thanks, I will. I'll call it "original death" since the scripture plainly and clearly indicates death was passed, not sin.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
What you fail to understand is sin separates and Adam died spiritually at the precise point he sinned and thus the act of disobedience by Adam is inseparable from death and therefore we read:
"by one man's offence many BE DEAD"
"by one man's offence many WERE MADE SINNERS"
Do you see that "DEAD" and SINNERS" are equally what is passed down becuase they are inseparable.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
No father on earth but ONE acted in behalf of others! So this use of Ezekiel 18 is completely out of context and has no applicaton whatsoever.
"by ONE MAN's offence MANY WERE MADE SINNERS" is a repudiation of your misapplication of Ezek. 18:20! You cannot place "the father" in Ezek. 18:20 as the "one man" in Romans 5:15,19 and so why are you trying? You are simply pitting scripture against scripture by jerking Ezek 18:20 out of context!
Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
He fathered them in the Garden of Eden "by one man's offence MANY WERE MADE SINNERS". This is why David said concerning new born infants:
Psa. 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
