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Rejoicing in Christmas

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by shodan, Dec 23, 2011.

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  1. shodan

    shodan Member
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    Good article

    http://thecripplegate.com/7-questions-from-christmas-haters/

    "Every year, Grace Church gets a handful of letters from people asking why our church celebrates Christmas. In fact, it is not unusual for some people to actually picket our church’s Christmas concerts (picture a hippi-esque anti-war ensemble replete with protest signs), and those people would probably keel over if they saw the giant Christmas trees we have in our plaza...."

    And a good article on the dating of Christmas:

    http://www.bib-arch.org/e-features/christmas.asp

    The ancient belief that Christ was concieved and crucified on the same day led to the date. Tertullian and others calculated the date of the crucifixion as March 25. Nine months later is December.

    "There is no record of celebrating Sol on December 25 prior to AD 354/362. Hijmans lists the known festivals of Sol as August 8 and/or 9, August 28, and December 11." wikepedia
     
    #1 shodan, Dec 23, 2011
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    This is a free country and you can do what your please. However, there is no such thing in the Scriptues as "Christ-MASS"! This is a pure paganistic practice with paganistic traditions.

    Early Christians had four different dates they guessed at concerning his birth.
     
    #2 The Biblicist, Dec 23, 2011
  3. shodan

    shodan Member
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    Christian not biblicist

    First, it does not matter what country. I am free in Christ.

    "...pure paganistic practice..." If you honor the Bible, then do your homework, and guard your lips from speaking falsehoods. False condemnations are not becoming of any Christian.
     
    #3 shodan, Dec 23, 2011
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I have done my home work thoroughly and near every single tradition associated with Christ-MASS has pagan roots. The Mass itself is pagan and unbiblical and an attack upon the very heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ!

    I will say it again. Prior to the fourth century there was as many as four different dates purposed for Christ's birth!
     
    #4 The Biblicist, Dec 23, 2011
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Why don't you try reading the very sites you gave in your post??? Your very references support that in the first three centuries there was confusion over when they thought Christ was born.

    Why don't you just look Christmas up in any reliable encyclopeia (other than World book - Roman Catholic influenced) and you can easily see the pagan background for nearly every tradition in Christmas.

    Are you a Catholic or a sacramentalist? If not, if you are an evangelical Christian you wouldn't even like the blasphemous MASS behind Christ-MASS!
     
    #5 The Biblicist, Dec 23, 2011
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Here are some more reliable articles on Christmas and its pagan origin:

    http://hope-of-israel.org.nz/cmas1.htm

    http://unexplainedmysteriesofthewor...ber-25th-but-a-whole-bunch-of-pagan-gods-were
     
    #6 The Biblicist, Dec 23, 2011
  7. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Is Christmas a divinization of a pagan holiday or vice versa? I found this article quite interesting. It is from an Orthodox Christian site:

    http://www.prescottorthodox.org/2011/12/calculating-christmas/
     
    #7 Walter, Dec 23, 2011
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Any article that presumes that Christmas is by divine institution and then paganized is a joke!

    First there is not one command in scripture to institute it for observance nor is there any record in scripture that it was observed by the churches of Christ or the apostles.

    Second, there is a clear record in history that apostate Christianity merely Christianized the pagan practices then current in order to keep wet [baptized? pagans in the churches.

    Third, there is a clear history of that time of year and traditions predating the establishment of Christmas that were previously pagan in practice.
     
    #8 The Biblicist, Dec 23, 2011
  9. shodan

    shodan Member
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    #9 shodan, Dec 23, 2011
  10. shodan

    shodan Member
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    No one has claimed the celebration of Christmas as a divine instituiton nor has anyone claimed that 'its in the Bible.'
     
    #10 shodan, Dec 23, 2011
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You simply do not know what you are talking about! Just pick up any encyclopedia (except Catholic influenced ones - World Book) and read it! Just go on line and look at any number of sites that provide the historical background of Christmas!
     
    #11 The Biblicist, Dec 23, 2011
  12. shodan

    shodan Member
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    Always Winter and Never Christmas?

    The traditions of men die hard, especially confused historical 'facts.'






    Here is an excellent post from one of the links:

    "As one who has lived on both sides of this argument, I would like to comment without criticizing my brothers and sisters on either side.

    For the first 25 years of my life, I lived in a church and a family who "religiously" did NOT celebrate Christmas. We could not even say the word "Christmas" because that meant a mass for Christ. Christmas was a very glum time around our house. We were glad when it was over. People would constantly say to us "I thought you were Christians? Christians are supposed to celebrate Christmas." I hated the whole scene and was glad when it was all over. I could not attend "Christmas Parties" from the workplace or any other place.

    My husband came from the same kind of family - you had to marry someone from the same denomination, or you would be excommunicated from fellowship. When we got married, we started having Christmas. My parents came over and also my great-aunt who had lived with us. They were previously against Christmas, but they loved coming to our house and watching our kids unwrap the gifts. We did NOT, however, teach our kids about Santa Claus. Our children and grandchildren celebrate the real meaning of Christmas and are believers on our Lord Jesus Christ. Celebrating Christmas or not celebrating Christmas did not seem to have an effect on matters of faith. Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

    For myself, I would not impose the title of "Christmas haters" on people who don't celebrate Christmas. It is up to their personal conscience. I would not call their Christian faith into question because they don't celebrate Christmas. They don't have to - it is not an ordinance prescribed in scripture. The only two ordinances that I can see are baptism and communion.

    Just another take on Christmas or not. I am expecting some people to say I am disobedient to God because I celebrate Christmas. I don't care, so save your energy for preaching to the unsaved who need it.

    Only by His Marvellous grace,

    Elizabeth
     
    #12 shodan, Dec 23, 2011
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I agree that this is a matter of Christian liberty. However, it is not a matter of Christian liberty to revise history to suit your practice or beleif.
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Dec 23, 2011
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Luke 2:20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

    As far as the suffix "mass"; there must be a lot of words you do not use based on their entomology.

    Just curious:

    1) How do you refer to Dec 25?
    2) Do you celebrate Dec 25 in any manner at all?
     
    #14 Salty, Dec 23, 2011
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    If that text instituted observance of Christmas then Christ and all the apostles disobeyed it. All the New Testament churches disobeyed it because there is no mention of anyone outside of these shepherds that observed it that year only!

    Pleeeeease give me a break! There is no argument among any historians about this suffix, what it means and why it is attached. - The Roman Catholic "mass" is its historical origin.

    As december 25th.

    I celebrate it no different than any other public holiday. We don't decorate the house, buy a tree, buy presents or practice any other of the traditions attached to it.
     
    #15 The Biblicist, Dec 23, 2011
  16. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    WHOA!! You said "holiday"? Aren't you aware that those evil Catholics also came up with that word? It literally means holy day and these were days recoginzed as such by those same evil Catholics who came up with ChristMASS.
     
    #16 Zenas, Dec 23, 2011
  17. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    BINGO!!!

    Christmas witness includes wishing “Merry Christmas” to all we can. Some return the greeting, some give some other response, but all are reminded whose birthday it is. And the truth is fianlly being heard that the Roman festival was a reaction to Christmas, not the other way round. Merry Christmas!
     
    #17 Walter, Dec 24, 2011
  18. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Also, Clement Clarke Moore taught Bible at General Theological Seminary in NYC. His
    poem “A Visit from St. Nicholas” did a lot to paganize the poor saint, and the Coca-Cola company picked it up from there.

    I think the poem also helped shift the major celebration of 'The Feast of the Nativity' (ChristMASS) from its appointed day to the previous evening’s vigil. The latter is now the major service in our Baptist Church, and in some places it’s getting earlier and earlier.

    Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.
     
    #18 Walter, Dec 24, 2011
  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I am fully aware of what "holy day" means in reglious use but I am equally aware what it means by secular use in regard to days that have no holiness at all attached to them e.g. July 4th, President's day, etc.

    However, the very term "christ-mass" stinks in the nostrils of God as it perverts the gospel of Christ.

    The sacrifice of Christ occured but ONCE for all time - Heb. 10:10-14
    The redemption of Christ has been "obtained" - Heb. 9:12-17.
    There are no "sacraments" in New Testament Christianity (Rom. 4:9-11)
     
    #19 The Biblicist, Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2011
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #20 DHK, Dec 24, 2011
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