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"Spiritual Israel" or "Spiritual Jew"

beameup

beameup

Member
Aaron said:
Sometimes one simply has to accept what God has given. :smilewinkgrin:
Click to expand...

You mean to accept a belief/doctrine just "by faith" [Sola fide]?


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And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto ego-centric, even as unto babies in Christ. - 1Cor 3:1
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
beameup said:
You mean to accept a belief/doctrine just "by faith" [Sola fide]?


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And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto ego-centric, even as unto babies in Christ. - 1Cor 3:1
Click to expand...
No. If God used synechdoche to allude to spiritual Israel through Paul (Gal. 4:22-31) instead of the verbatim you demand through Jesus or Moses, then that's good enough.
 
beameup

beameup

Member
Aaron said:
No. If God used synechdoche to allude to spiritual Israel through Paul (Gal. 4:22-31) instead of the verbatim you demand through Jesus or Moses, then that's good enough.
Click to expand...

So when this same Paul devotes an entire chapter
in easy-to-understand language and states that
true Israel has not been "cast off" and will be
grafted back in and saved are we supposed
to take that as the "verbatim" or "synechdoche"?

------------------------------------------------------------

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto ego-centric, even as unto babies in Christ. - 1Cor 3:1
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
beameup said:
So when this same Paul devotes an entire chapter
in easy-to-understand language and states that
true Israel has not been "cast off" and will be
grafted back in and saved are we supposed
to take that as the "verbatim" or "synechdoche"?
Click to expand...
You certainly didn't repeat it verbatim. He said God is able to graft the "natural branches" back in, not "true Israel."

And Paul is employing a metaphor.

Verbatim means exact words. Syncechdoche and metonymy are the mention of part of something in reference the whole. When Paul spoke of "the Jerusalem that is above," He means the Israel that is above, or spiritual Israel.

So, though you cannot find the exact words "spiritual Israel," spiritual israel is an entity dealt with at length in the Scriptures. Rabbi's speak of "eternal Israel," meaning the same thing.
 
beameup

beameup

Member
Aaron said:
You certainly didn't repeat it verbatim. He said God is able to graft the "natural branches" back in, not "true Israel."

And Paul is employing a metaphor.

Verbatim means exact words. Syncechdoche and metonymy are the mention of part of something in reference the whole. When Paul spoke of "the Jerusalem that is above," He means the Israel that is above, or spiritual Israel.

So, though you cannot find the exact words "spiritual Israel," spiritual israel is an entity dealt with at length in the Scriptures. Rabbi's speak of "eternal Israel," meaning the same thing.
Click to expand...

I'm sure if you reread my post you will note that I didn't quote anything "verbatim". I simply "characterized" the contents of Romans 11
which appears to be clear and concise language and not a "metaphor".

I note that you haven't produced one single passage from the Gospels or the O.T. to support my original question.

Paul introduces the subject of the chapter:
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
- sounds like Paul is stating that he is a genetic Jew to me.

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And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto self-serving, even as unto babies in Christ. 1 Cor 3:1
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaron said:
You certainly didn't repeat it verbatim. He said God is able to graft the "natural branches" back in, not "true Israel."

And Paul is employing a metaphor.

Verbatim means exact words. Syncechdoche and metonymy are the mention of part of something in reference the whole. When Paul spoke of "the Jerusalem that is above," He means the Israel that is above, or spiritual Israel.

So, though you cannot find the exact words "spiritual Israel," spiritual israel is an entity dealt with at length in the Scriptures. Rabbi's speak of "eternal Israel," meaning the same thing.
Click to expand...

Exactly Aaron....

3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.

5And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

8Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

9That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.

10They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.

11And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.
Click to expand...
 
agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
beameup said:
I've been looking through my online Bible and can't seem to locate these in the text.
Click to expand...

I suppose because all the apostles were Jews, they would count as "spiritual Jews."

Also, because 120,000 Jews will be saved during the great tribulation, they might be considered the "spiritual Israel."

Some think the church is the holder of the promises as "spiritual Israel."
I don't.
 
D

DaChaser1

New Member
beameup said:
I've been looking through my online Bible and can't seem to locate these in the text.
Click to expand...

Spiritual isreal is NOT the NT Church...

it IS those messianic jews who have received Jesus as the Jewish messiah, and they would be 'completed jews"...


So in the Church would be today 'spritual" Jews who received jesus, and gentiles who were "grafted in"...

per Apostle paul, this did NOT mean Isreal replaced by or is now known as the Church, and that national isreal, jewish peoples in the Flesh still have a future plan with God!
 
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