The World God so Loved !

[DHK]

dhk
If that is what you want to believe, so be it ! However its about the world that God Loves, and scriptural proof that its not all men without exception..

1. You have to provide that proof.
2. If you claim it is not for all the world, then provide proof that you are in the world that Christ died for. How can you be sure if Christ did not indeed die for the whole world.
Maybe, when he said that, he meant only for first century Christians. Is that a plausible interpretation? Why or why not?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

You have to provide that proof.

Thats what the Thread is doing, but now I cannot make you believe the proof !

 

[DHK]

dhk

Thats what the Thread is doing, but now I cannot make you believe the proof !

(1Jn 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John says that Christ is the propitiation for our sins.
He includes himself, and the believers to whom he is writing, that is the elect.
But John doesn't stop there. He then says, "Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world."
He just covered the sins of the elect. Now he says he is also the propitiation for the sins of the whole world?

What world is that, if it is not the whole world of all ages?
If it is only the world that John lived in, then none of us today have salvation do we?
If it is any other exclusive world, none of us can be sure that we are part of that exclusive group. We don't know. Your theology is much like that of Islam. It is fatalism. It will be up to God in that fatal day, and he will decide if you are in that exclusive group or not. He will decide if you are in "that world". How would you know, if the world is limited according to your theology.

No, my friend, Jesus meant what he said. He gave his only begotten son for the whole world, not just a part of it.

 

[savedbymercy]

(1Jn 2:2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John says that Christ is the propitiation for our sins.
He includes himself, and the believers to whom he is writing, that is the elect.
But John doesn't stop there. He then says, "Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world."
He just covered the sins of the elect. Now he says he is also the propitiation for the sins of the whole world?

What world is that, if it is not the whole world of all ages?
If it is only the world that John lived in, then none of us today have salvation do we?
If it is any other exclusive world, none of us can be sure that we are part of that exclusive group. We don't know. Your theology is much like that of Islam. It is fatalism. It will be up to God in that fatal day, and he will decide if you are in that exclusive group or not. He will decide if you are in "that world". How would you know, if the world is limited according to your theology.

No, my friend, Jesus meant what he said. He gave his only begotten son for the whole world, not just a part of it.

First of all, 1 Jn 2:2 does not say that God Loved all men in the world without exception, it is a entirely different subject matter, Its about propitiation.

Secondly, It appears you are in the dark on What the word world means in scripture, as well as what propitiation means in scripture. You have not proved nothing I've posted wrong.

 

[DHK]

First of all, 1 Jn 2:2 does not say that God Loved all men in the world without exception, it is a entirely different subject matter, Its about propitiation.

Secondly, It appears you are in the dark on What the word world means in scripture, as well as what propitiation means in scripture. You have not proved nothing I've posted wrong.

Denial is not the basis for debate.
It is obvious that you cannot refute my post.

 

[savedbymercy]

Denial is not the basis for debate.
It is obvious that you cannot refute my post.

Evasion is not debate, you cannot even prove what I have posted wrong !

 

[DHK]

Evasion is not debate, you cannot even prove what I have posted wrong !

John 3:16 proves you wrong as does John 3:36.
1John 2:2 definitely proves you wrong as explained already.

If your world is limited, or God has limited you have yet to define how.
Neither have you defined what the implications are of a limited world have on you personally.
How do you know that your interpretation of a limited world is the correct one?

Come up with some answers.
I haven't heard any, therefore I don't believe you have any.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Amazing how a person can talk themselves into unbelief. I won't even ask if the poster is a Cal lol.

It does not say "For God so loved the believers..."

What part of "world" is not understood?

Reminds me of people that are "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

God sent His Son to the unsaved, hell bound world. Get milk....

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

John 3:16 proves you wrong as does John 3:36.

No they don't, neither verse says God Loved everyone in the world without exception !

 

[DHK]

dhk
No they don't, neither verse says God Loved everyone in the world without exception !

1. What part of "world" do you not understand?
2. What part of "whosoever believes" do you not understand?
3. What part of "the sins of the whole world" do you not understand?

 

[savedbymercy]

1. What part of "world" do you not understand?
2. What part of "whosoever believes" do you not understand?
3. What part of "the sins of the whole world" do you not understand?

As I said, neither of those verses says that God Loved all men in the world without exception.

 

[DHK]

As I said, neither of those verses says that God Loved all men in the world without exception.

In fact all the verses do say that God loved all men, all the world, paid the penalty for all our sin without exception, unless you are willing to some terrible eisigeses and make these verses say something that they don't say.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

In fact all the verses do say that God loved all men

No they don't, there is not one scripture in all the bible that states that God Loved all men without exception. if it did, the bible would be unreliable, Because God clearly did not Love Jacob Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[DHK]

dhk



No they don't, there is not one scripture in all the bible that states that God Loved all men without exception. if it did, the bible would be unreliable, Because God clearly did not Love Jacob Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

The Old English word "hated" (as well as the Greek) simply means "to love less." God placed his love on Jacob as the one who would be the patriarch of the nation of Israel, the father of the 12 tribes. He knew (for he is omniscient) what kind of person Esau would be. He was a profane man loving the world rather than the spiritual. Jacob was not so. Thus the blessing and the spiritual inheritance went to Jacob. It was not a matter of hatred, per se. It was a matter of "loving less," and more of election. You are using this out of context as the context is more about the election of a chosen nation in the OT. God still loved the world.

If he didn't love the world why would he send Jonah to Nineveh as a missionary with a message of repentance.
Then, 100 years later, why would he send Nahum there with the same message. He loved them, just as he did Rahab the harlot, another Gentile, and Ruth a Moabitess.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

The Old English word "hated" (as well as the Greek) simply means "to love less."

Dont care about that, The greek, It means to hate. God did not Love Esau. The word hated in the greek according to strongs concordance is miseō and means:


to hate, pursue with hatred, detest

2) to be hated, detested

Says nothing about loved less, God is not double minded, He either Loves you or He does not !

If you going to believe the bible then believe it and quit trying to change it to fit your idealogoy !

And on top of that, you have not supported with one scripture that God Loved all men without exception !

Jn 3:16 does not say it, 1 Jn 2:2 does not say it, no where close !

 

[DHK]

dhk



Dont care about that, The greek, It means to hate. God did not Love Esau. The word hated in the greek according to strongs concordance is miseō and means:


to hate, pursue with hatred, detest

2) to be hated, detested

Says nothing about loved less, God is not double minded, He either Loves you or He does not !

If you going to believe the bible then believe it and quit trying to change it to fit your idealogoy !

And on top of that, you have not supported with one scripture that God Loved all men without exception !

Jn 3:16 does not say it, 1 Jn 2:2 does not say it, no where close !

You are the one that has to prove that he doesn't. You haven't done that.
God so loved the world. That is plain that he loved all.
Where does it say that he didn't. The onus is on you that he didn't, not on me. You prove it.
You have a humorous way of debate trying to make me prove your theology. It is not going to work.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

You are the one that has to prove that he doesn't

Its proven, read the thread ! You are the one who needs to come up with biblical evidence stating that God Loved all men in the world without exception. I have news for you, the scripture never says that. He Loves His own in the world Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

And no, one does not have to be a believer for God to Love them. He Loved His His Own while they were sinners and enemies by nature ! Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[DHK]

dhk



Its proven, read the thread ! You are the one who needs to come up with biblical evidence stating that God Loved all men in the world without exception. I have news for you, the scripture never says that. He Loves His own in the world Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

And no, one does not have to be a believer for God to Love them. He Loved His His Own while they were sinners and enemies by nature ! Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

In Romans 5:8,10 who are the "us" and the "we"?
And how do you know you are one of them?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

In Romans 5:8,10 who are the "us" and the "we"?

Its believers, who do you think it is ?

 

[DHK]

dhk
Its believers, who do you think it is ?

Correct, and the reason that you know that you are one of the "elect" presumably, is because, you, out of your own free will, "believed" or had faith in Christ. No one forced you, did they?

Thus Christ died for the sins of the whole world. He made a propitiation for the sins of the whole world. If it wasn't for the whole world then you would have no guarantee that you could be one of the elect. The fact that you did believe tells you that you had the ability just as anyone in the whole world has, to believe on Christ. No one is excepted. Salvation is by faith. You accepted Christ's gift of salvation by faith. If you didn't then how is it that you became what is called a "believer," one who believes.