Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
What does repentance consist of? Can one say they have in reality repented if their outward actions have not changed? Can one inherit the kingdom apart from repentance?
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The Nature of Repentance
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
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What does repentance consist of? Can one say they have in reality repented if their outward actions have not changed? Can one inherit the kingdom apart from repentance?
John the Baptist scolded some Pharisees for not bearing fruit in keeping with repentance. I think this verse shows us what that looks like:
2Co 7:11 For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter. (NASB)
In one of my devotionals this week I came across one by JC Ryle entitled: The absolute necessity of repentance
This led me to think of a sermon titled: The necessity of absolute repentance.
That sermon has been added to my "to be written" list.
Anyways, repentance has to include an outward change (with possible exceptions..like the thief on the cross) in order to be genuine. Perhaps the words spoken by the thief qualified? In any case, without realizing the depth of your sin and need for a savior, and true repentance you will not be saved.
Note that verse 11 says "were" as opposed to "are" in this passage:
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (NASB)
2Co 7:11 For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter. (NASB)
In one of my devotionals this week I came across one by JC Ryle entitled: The absolute necessity of repentance
This led me to think of a sermon titled: The necessity of absolute repentance.
That sermon has been added to my "to be written" list.
Anyways, repentance has to include an outward change (with possible exceptions..like the thief on the cross) in order to be genuine. Perhaps the words spoken by the thief qualified? In any case, without realizing the depth of your sin and need for a savior, and true repentance you will not be saved.
Note that verse 11 says "were" as opposed to "are" in this passage:
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. (NASB)
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Mont, I do not know, nor have I ever heard of "absolute repentance." How might you describe it for the list?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
I think we are on the same page. I might refer to it as 'sincere repentance.' Would you see absolute repentance or sincere repentance as something we are commanded to do, or is it something God does for us?
I think there is a difference between initial gospel repentance which involves a change of mind concerning ones view of self in relationship with God versus General progressive repentance in regard to specific sins as the Holy Spirit exposes and convicts a person about.
General Repentance is an ongoing progressive state of being changed from glory to glory by the Holy Spirit as more of our life is exposed to the light of God's Word, which consists in genuine conviction, then contrition manifested in change of attitude and/or lifestyle in regard to the specific point of conviction. This is a never ending process because we never become sinless in this life.
In contrast, Gospel Repentance is brought about by the Holy Spirit to specifically convict and convince and bring to contrition concerning our wrong relationship with God due to sin so that brings about a specific change from self-sufficiency to correct and remedy that relationship through self-reformation - unto complete trust in Jesus Christ to deliver them from their sins.
To confuse Gospel repentance with general repentance is the hub and crux of the dispicable and false gospel that turns repentance into penance instead of "repentance from dead works" (Heb. 6:1)
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Where is the evidence for what you present here?
The evidence is stated clearly in the words "repent and believe the gospel"
Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
The gospel is what has been rejected or not received. The call to repent is directly in regard to the gospel rather in regard to a specific sin.
I think I understand what you are saying. I doubt any of us would deny the necessity of ongoing holiness. Some may refer to this process as sanctification, others would call it being conformed to the image of Christ. In any case, as God grows us the Spirit convicts us of sin and we continue to recognize the sin and repent. At least, that is generally the case when we are submitting to the process by which we are matured.
Thankfully we do not need to be sinless in this life. The work of Christ in us is to make us blameless, which is distinctly different, and is the nature of justification.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Can you expand on that thought?
Seems to be your favorite response when you are pinned by scripture! However, let me ask you this. If you do not receive the gospel but reject the gospel, do you believe you need to repent or have a change of heart, mind in regard to the gospel?
The call to repentance was directed toward a people who not merely professed already to be God's people but from childhood were versed in the scriptures and professed to obey them. Those who did not were classified by the Jews as "sinners" and "publicans" as they were openly in violation of God's commandments. However, the rest, like Saul of Tarsus were pious commandment keeping Jews. White cups, whited seplechures, spotless externally - touching the law - "blameless" (Philip. 3:1-5).
They were people just like you - religious rejectors of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Wouldn't you say they needed to repent in regard to the gospel?
Jn. 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
That is gospel repentance or repentance in regard to the gospel.
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savedbymercy
New Member
True Repentance is a Gift of God through Christ, it's given to all for whom Christ died for as their Saviour, namely the Elect Acts 5:31
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Israel here is Spiritual Israel, the Church which includes Gentiles Acts 11:18
18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Israel here is Spiritual Israel, the Church which includes Gentiles Acts 11:18
18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Repentance is never divided in Scripture as gospel repentance and other repentance. Repentance is having a change of heart towards ones sin, period. It involves remorse for ones sin and contrition or godly sorrow for having violated God's laws. Repentance involves the will purposing not to choose in such a wicked manner again.
Repentance is required for salvation, but it is no difference than the repentance required by any and all sinners at any time for sin. It is something God calls on man to do, and is not something God does for man.
Repentance is required for salvation, but it is no difference than the repentance required by any and all sinners at any time for sin. It is something God calls on man to do, and is not something God does for man.
This is your modus operandi! When you are confronted with Bibical evidence that destroys your theories and which you have no response, cannot respond to, then you choose to ignore and simply restate your heresy as though no Biblical evidence had been provided to expose it as false. Your conscience is seared by false doctrine.
savedbymercy
New Member
Hp
Which can be False Religion. Most Repentance spoken of in the Scripture in the Gospel context was towards those who were involved in False Religion..
When Paul preached it, He had observed idol worship,m from very religous people Acts 17:17-30
17Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
18Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
19And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
21(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
22Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Back up in vs 17 Paul disputed with religous and devout jews, but they were still in need of Repentance.
Repntance is a change of mind ! A Turning from Idols to God, the True God ! Only God can give it !
Which can be False Religion. Most Repentance spoken of in the Scripture in the Gospel context was towards those who were involved in False Religion..
When Paul preached it, He had observed idol worship,m from very religous people Acts 17:17-30
17Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
18Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
19And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
21(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
22Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Back up in vs 17 Paul disputed with religous and devout jews, but they were still in need of Repentance.
Repntance is a change of mind ! A Turning from Idols to God, the True God ! Only God can give it !
savedbymercy
New Member
hp
Only as an Evidence of having been saved . Its not required to get saved, that would be works Salvation,, of which I know you believe in any way..
Only as an Evidence of having been saved . Its not required to get saved, that would be works Salvation,, of which I know you believe in any way..
Even on the Sabbath when WORKS were for bidden, it was not a work to drink water! Believing is like drinking water! See 1 Corinthians 12:13.
So stop calling faith a work!
Tell me, do you think that if a person repents of cheating on his wife it is a work? Please answer that question. Even on the Sabbath when WORKS were FOR BIDDEN, it was wrong to commit adultery! I can hardly believe there is such a religion as Calvinism, such insanity, to say one cannot repent of wrongdoing unless first born again, when the word of God says we receive the Holy Spirit after we obey! See Acts 5:32.
In the Bible, God says, “Believe.” Calvinists go against God and say, “We cannot believe.” Calvinists go against God AND add to God’s word by saying, “God says, ‘You cannot believe but will believe when I cause you to believe.'” No scripture says this! Calvinistic beliefs are of man’s assumptions, and not from the word of God.
savedbymercy
New Member
I don't know what you are talking about in light of what I posted !
Actually, the Arminian view is man-centered and robs God of His sovereignty. He must give us a new heart.
Eze 36:26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
Eze 11:19 "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
Eze 11:20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God.
Eze 11:21 "But as for those whose hearts go after their detestable things and abominations, I will bring their conduct down on their heads," declares the Lord GOD.
Rom 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
John chapter 10 where Jesus teaches about the sheep and the shepherd is also applicable.
Eze 36:26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
Eze 11:19 "And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
Eze 11:20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God.
Eze 11:21 "But as for those whose hearts go after their detestable things and abominations, I will bring their conduct down on their heads," declares the Lord GOD.
Rom 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
John chapter 10 where Jesus teaches about the sheep and the shepherd is also applicable.