Romans 7:14-25

[Iconoclast]

HP....you said;
Is it so hard for you to imagine others walking closer to God that you are walking? Have you no desire to walk holy and pure before God? I certainly have that desire and certainly would desire all on this list to have that desire as well.

Instead of simply trying to find fault, try encouraging one another to consistent holy living for a change. :thumbs:[/QUOTE]

Hp

you said....

Iconoclast, tell us how you know "all," as believers, sin?

well..scripture says so....it says anyone who says they do not sin...is a liar.

HP...you sin everyday in thought word and deed!
If you even attempt to deny it you only show that you do not understand the true and living God....and have absolutely no clue what the Holiness of God is whatsoever.....if you did ...you would not post so foolishly...Paul in Romans 7 describes his sin as a believer. The bondage to sin is broken for christians...but we still sin......while we are here in this body..

A christian sin's less....but he is not sinless until glorification.

Even yet, if there was not a believer alive that could stand and say, my heart is perfect before the Lord and without sin having all sin covered by the blood and walking daily in obedience, what would that prove? Would it prove it was not possible to live such a life with the help of the Holy Spirit? Because no one that I know of has ever climbed a certain mountain, would it prove that no one ever has or ever will?[/SIZE

All true christians desire to pursue holiness ...diligently...and yet we sin .
that is exactly the point Paul makes in romans 7;

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Do you ,Jerry, and Moriah go to the same church...because you all hold the same error?

Instead of simply trying to find fault, try encouraging one another to consistent holy living for a change. :thumbs:[/SIZE][/FONT]

[/QUOTE]

HP...no one is trying to find fault...just trying to remain in the truth...which is where true sanctifcation is.....

Paul in chapter 8 goes on to tell christians....that we are to mortify sin....
why command us to do this ..if there is no sin to mortify.....
You no longer have sin in word or deed..at all???? You never have any lustful thoughts??? You are never envious??? You never have unrighteous anger??/ you never lack love...?? You love and serve God 100% everyday??

You no longer need to repent of any sin, or vain thoughts???

 

[Iconoclast]

HP: I believe that verse can be properly and justly read to say:

"If we say that we have not sinned, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

No...here is what it actually says;

[QUOTE] 8if we may say -- `we have not sin,' ourselves we lead astray, and the truth is not in us;

9if we may confess our sins, stedfast He is and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from every unrighteousness;

10if we may say -- `we have not sinned,' a liar we make Him, and His word is not in us. [/QUOTE]

 

[Moriah]

Paul disciplined his body and in that meaning his sinful desires, to bring them under subjection to Christ; 1 Corinthians 9:27.

So yes, he still had evil within him contrary to your false teaching.

You are wrong. After Jesus saved Paul, Paul was capable of doing good and not only evil.

 

[Moriah]

No...here is what it actually says;

[QUOTE] 8if we may say -- `we have not sin,' ourselves we lead astray, and the truth is not in us;

9if we may confess our sins, stedfast He is and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from every unrighteousness;

10if we may say -- `we have not sinned,' a liar we make Him, and His word is not in us.

Before Jesus saves someone, they have to realize they are sinners, if they say they never sinned, we know they are not saved and the truth is not in them. After Jesus saves a person, they work out their salvation they do away with sin. Those in Christ do not continue to sin, but if they do, then we can be forgiven.

 

[Moriah]

You never have any lustful thoughts??? You are never envious??? You never have unrighteous anger??/ you never lack love...?? You love and serve God 100% everyday??

You no longer need to repent of any sin, or vain thoughts???

How long have you been a Christian? Do you STILL struggle with lustful thoughts? You STILL get envious? You still do not love all?

Get rid of your Calvinistic beliefs, then maybe you will get closer to the Lord and overcome this world.

 

[Moriah]

Why would believers sit around and try to find fault with one trying to walk holy before God? Why would not you be encouraging others to walk even as He walked, just as Scripture tells us we are to walk? If you are not walking holy before God, why would you desire to drag others down to the level you might personally feel you are walking on? Is it so hard for you to imagine others walking closer to God that you are walking? Have you no desire to walk holy and pure before God? I certainly have that desire and certainly would desire all on this list to have that desire as well.

Instead of simply trying to find fault, try encouraging one another to consistent holy living for a change. :thumbs:

This is such an excellent point you are making to iconoclast, and ALL Calvinists. Whenever I hear Calvinists speak about believers and sin, it is as if I am hearing the accuser of the brethren.

 

[convicted1]

1. The body of the saved man has not been regenerated and is still unredeemed - the flesh - members - and is subject to physical death - corruption due to sin - thus "sold under sin" and must die or be transformed.

I believe you hit the nail on the head with these few words.



Our flesh is still in a state of condemnation, because the blood will never cleanse it, like it did our souls. Our souls have been placed in Christ, but our flesh still rebels against our souls. This is what Paul was addressing when he wrote about the warfare. He even prayed to God three times to remove the thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, that was buffetting him. God then told him that His Grace was sufficient for him.

5. Regenerated persons do not "continue in sin" although they do sin, and always will lose to sin if they operate by the power of their own will, but they do not "continue in sin" because the Holy Spirit within them provides not merely power to express the regenerative life of Christ but God works in them both to will and to do of His good pleasure according to His good purpose (Rom. 8:26-28).

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[preacher4truth]

How long have you been a Christian? Do you STILL struggle with lustful thoughts? You STILL get envious? You still do not love all?

Get rid of your Calvinistic beliefs, then maybe you will get closer to the Lord and overcome this world.

What you are missing is so plain. Your own attitude of boasting, arrogance, slanderous comments to others, reviling others, irreconcilability, dishonesty, deceit, are all works of the flesh and are sin, and you've demonstrated your propensity to do these things over and over here.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are wrong. After Jesus saved Paul, Paul was capable of doing good and not only evil.

Who said he wasn't capable of doing good? Not here. Leave your strawman arguments out of this.

Paul sinned. So do you. You just can't see it. Wonder why?

 

[Amy.G]

I came across this Second century prayer, entitled "Sanctify us o Lord", a Litergy of St. James. What might come of such a petition if everyone of us could pray, especially the last half of this prayer in honest contrition and expectation from the Lord?

If you and Moriah are sinless since you were saved, then you don't need this prayer do you?

 

[The Biblicist]

You are wrong. After Jesus saved Paul, Paul was capable of doing good and not only evil.

You are missing the point! We are not denying Paul's capability to do both but we are asserting it and denying the idea that he could not do evil.

 

[Iconoclast]

How long have you been a Christian? Do you STILL struggle with lustful thoughts? You STILL get envious? You still do not love all?

Get rid of your Calvinistic beliefs, then maybe you will get closer to the Lord and overcome this world.

So....you do not sin at all???Never.... You are sinless?????:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I have not met a deluded fanatic is several months...but now I have met four on one message board.....
Every real believer still sins....not practicing any sin ...but yet still able to sin.
Any denial of this shows a deluded heart, biblical ignorance, and a dangerous pride that in and of itself is more dangerous than most of the other sins.
The amount of sinful accuasations and proud boasting on this thread alone is astounding........You sin in every post....SINLESS.....yeah right!


[QUOTEGet rid of your Calvinistic beliefs, then maybe you will get closer to the Lord and overcome this world.[/QUOTE]
][/QUOTE]
This is really what causes your error,and fuels your attacks. You cannot answer to scripture...so you put down everyone...sad!

 

[Moriah]

Who said he wasn't capable of doing good? Not here. Leave your strawman arguments out of this.

Paul sinned. So do you. You just can't see it. Wonder why?

You said Romans 7 is about Paul AFTER Jesus saved him. That is what all you Calvinists say. Paul said he only did evil. YOU said this was his condition after Jesus saved him. You Calvinists say we cannot do any good before we are saved, not even to want to do good. You forget what your beliefs are!

 

[Moriah]

So....you do not sin at all???Never.... You are sinless?????:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I have not met a deluded fanatic is several months...but now I have met four on one message board.....
Every real believer still sins....not practicing any sin ...but yet still able to sin.
Any denial of this shows a deluded heart, biblical ignorance, and a dangerous pride that in and of itself is more dangerous than most of the other sins.
The amount of sinful accuasations and proud boasting on this thread alone is astounding........You sin in every post....SINLESS.....yeah right!

You are slanderous. You should be warned by the moderator for such evil.

 

[Moriah]

You are missing the point! We are not denying Paul's capability to do both but we are asserting it and denying the idea that he could not do evil.

What?! Oh no you don’t. You are trying to act as if you believed what I am saying all along! How deceitful of you. Paul was speaking of only doing evil BEFORE Jesus saved him, and now you are claiming you believe that too! There are just too many posts from you here that you say otherwise. THIS PROVES YOUR CALVINISM IS FALSE, FOR PAUL SAID HE ONLY DID EVIL BUT WANTED TO DO GOOD BEFORE JESUS SAVED HIM.
Calvinists say before we are saved we do not WANT TO DO GOOD. You are being forced out of you lie. I am so glad I continued talking to you about this.

 

[Moriah]

What you are missing is so plain. Your own attitude of boasting, arrogance, slanderous comments to others, reviling others, irreconcilability, dishonesty, deceit, are all works of the flesh and are sin, and you've demonstrated your propensity to do these things over and over here.

You are backwards. Just like all your Calvinists beliefs. Here you chastise me for obeying! Are we not instead supposed to speak to each other like you just did to me if I do not stop sinning!
All your Calvinists beliefs are backwards. You chastise a Christian for obeying Jesus. You say we are saved before we believe. You are caught doing the devil's work.

 

[Moriah]

I believe you hit the nail on the head with these few words.



Our flesh is still in a state of condemnation, because the blood will never cleanse it, like it did our souls. Our souls have been placed in Christ, but our flesh still rebels against our souls. This is what Paul was addressing when he wrote about the warfare. He even prayed to God three times to remove the thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, that was buffetting him. God then told him that His Grace was sufficient for him.

What are you talking about?!

1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and BODY be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In addition, Paul's thorn in his side was not about him sinning!

 

[preacher4truth]

You are backwards. Just like all your Calvinists beliefs. Here you chastise me for obeying! Are we not instead supposed to speak to each other like you just did to me if I am sinning and not repenting of it!
All your Calvinists beliefs are backwards. You chastise a Christian for obeying Jesus. You say we are saved before we believe. You are caught doing the devil's work.

More strawman arguments.

Your pejoratives towards others are paramount, that you cannot see them, telltale.

Please brothers and sisters, do not feed them any longer!!!! raying:

 

[Moriah]

This is how a Christian and Calvinist discussion goes:

Christian: Hear the message, believe, and be saved.
Calvinists: They cannot believe until after they are saved.
Christian: Cornelius believed in God before he heard the message that saves.
Calvinists: Cornelius believed because he was already saved, and he was already saved before he heard the message.
Christian: But it is called the message that saves.
Calvinists: They were saved before they heard the message, and even before the creation of the world.
Christian: Then why does God tell us to repent before we perish?
Calvinist:

What say you Calvinist? What is your next false answer?

 

[Iconoclast]

You are slanderous. You should be warned by the moderator for such evil.

Well...let's see how you.... being sinless....post to edify the brethren:

We who believe and obey receive the Holy Spirit. We live by the Spirit and can stop sinning.

You are a liar

You are a joke.

You just described Sbm and yourself, and proved you are a hypocrite

I knew you could not answer my question. Your beliefs are false. Those who are quick to believe Paul was still the worst practicing sinner after Jesus saved him because that is probably what they are still.

Get rid of your Calvinistic beliefs, then maybe you will get closer to the Lord and overcome this world.

You go against God's own Word, just to stand up for John Calvin and people like Paul Washer.

This is such an excellent point you are making to iconoclast, and ALL Calvinists. Whenever I hear Calvinists speak about believers and sin, it is as if I am hearing the accuser of the brethren.

What?! Oh no you don’t. You are trying to act as if you believed what I am saying all along! How deceitful of you.

You are backwards. Just like all your Calvinists beliefs.

All your Calvinists beliefs are backwards You are caught doing the devil's work.

and that main point is the part that Calvinists base all their false doctrines

Do you think man's words are better? Do you like what Calvin reasons as the truth, more than what the Word says?

You will stay in the snare the devil caught you with to do his work, if you do not stop believing the lie of men like John Calvin.

No sin or lack of love here...:laugh::laugh::laugh: