Nope! There has always been the third person of the Holy Trinity but His name is not HS. Reverence is easily lost and this is, imho, a sure sign of that loss in a personś life.
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He Did Away Withy The Law
- Thread starter th1bill
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Nope! There has always been the third person of the Holy Trinity but His name is not HS. Reverence is easily lost and this is, imho, a sure sign of that loss in a personś life.
Since you have not been considerate enough to quote and you did not name, the lot of us are left in the very dangerous position of assuming! Working from that position;
I have not stated that any saved person is under the law but that the Mosaic Law is still our teacher. If your post is ppointed at me, you have not, accurately read and understood the OP.
I would have to disagree about it being my teacher. God's Spirit is my teacher.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
My first post on this thread was not to you but to everyone in general. Today when men speak of the Law of God they want to make sure we are following the Law. Yet for myself I do my best to allow Christ to live my life through my flesh. It seems most are concerned about there outward appearance while I'm less inclined to worry because I'm focused on Christ Him self rather than some rules.
I'm not perfect there is no man with out sin. How ever I am saved perfectly and I wear perfect righteousness even though it isn't really my righteousness that I wear. This righteousness I wear is smuge proof. It remains spotless even though it covers all my sins.
I'm not defending sin nor am I recomending it to anyone. I am recomending that if we stay focused on Jesus Christ we won't have too worry about sin any longer because we are free from it's effect.
In short focus on Jesus Christ not the Law. The Law never saved anyone. It's good for one thing only and that is to point us to Christ. Once we have Christ we have no futher need of it.
MB
I never said I was Lawless. I said I was focused on Jesus but according to you I'm wrong. Your focused on the Law which is one thing I know for sure you will never keep. You're just a sinner you can't help your self. If you do not place your focus on Jesus. If I were you, I'd pray and ask for focus on Him and stop worring about your sin.
I offered meat but you cannot handle meat. So stay on the Milk a while longer then.
In other words if you feel you're on the right path by the works of the Law then by all means give them your best shot. There is no reward that comes from the Law if you are saved. We enter the kingdom because of the righteousness of Christ. He obeyed the Law for me. Something I could not do for myself. Neither can you.
MB
No one on this thread has suggested that the law can save anyone. The question is though, if you are not seeking to keep God's law, what reason do you have to suppose that you have Christ?MB said:
' Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out emons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practise lawlessness!"' (Matt 7:21-23).
The will of the Father is that we keep His law. If we disregard His law then ipso facto we are practising lawlessness.
N.B. Don't trust the NIV reading of verse 23. It's not 'evildoers,' it's 'You who practise lawlessness.'
Steve
Alright, that´s your and many others position and as I have stated, many times, it´s used as a license to sin. The usaul rep-ly is that God will forgive when asked and IF the heart was and is right, He will! But there is also the truth that we must not temp6t the LORD our God.
And then, before we are saved we are under the penalty of the Mosaic Law and when we are no longer under that penalty we are still to seek to grow to be more like God/Jesus of whom we learn in the word picture of God´s righteousness in the Ten Commandments. (Just to clarify; The Law I speak of is the Ten Commandments with the understanding that the other 603 Jewish laws are nothing more than the life application examples of how to apply the Ten Commandments.)
Okiay, that tels me that I was in no real danger of jumping the gun but it is still good form for a contributor to denote to whom a post is addressed. It generates much less discontent and unrest.
But I have never, to my reccollection, been guilty of that. And if it is true of any man that he or she allows the Christ to live through them, the Ten Commandments are important to them. In MATT. 22:36-40 Jesus surmmurized the first four in His first Great commandment and the second did the same for the last six.
Now, Jesus is and always was God (John 3:1-3) and God never has and never will change. (Mal. 3:6a) Add to that the truth of John 14:15 and one cannot toss the cfommandments away, period!
But you are wrong, Jesus came to fulfill the requirements of the Law, not to do away with it and Jesus being our model means that we are to attempt to be like Him! We can never make perfection but we are to seek after it minute by minute.
Great post!
I would just ask what exactly "New Testament Theology adherents"...believe?
God bless.
While concering our daily conversation, this is true.
However, when we consider that the Christ came to fulfill the law, we go beyond the keeping of commandments:
Hebrews 10:14
King James Version (KJV)
14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Those that are not "perfect" are still under the law.
And they will seek perfection even as those that sought righteousness did...and they will fail, even as those under the law did.
God bless.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Does Christ live in you? as He does in me? . Being focused on Christ means that because I am focused on Christ I am following after Him in my desire to be more like Him. Did Christ ever break the Law? If not then why do you assume that I'm advoctating the breaking of God's Law. Isn't it because you do not wish to know the truth by skipping over the obvious. I do not focus on the Law simply becaiuse I'm not worried about the Law as what I am talking about being like Christ. It isn't man that keeps men from sin it is Christ because He is the author and finisher of our faith. You and others like you want to place us under a burden we cannot bear of our selves. Focus on the Law not Christ, smells very foul to me.
Wrong the will of the Father is to follow His Son. Did Christ ever say to focus on the Law? Nope He said follow me.
Don't worry I do not trust the NIV. I rely on the KJV. A formal version is a lot better than what some nonchristian thinks the Bible says.
Just for your information I have never cast out devils. Prophesised, nor done any wonders. and most of all I have never been sinless like you seem to be claiming. However I do love my neighbors and my brother can you say the same?
MB
Hello MB, I think the primary problem here is the inability if the OP (opening post)to distinguish...just exactly what it is talking about...lol.
While some that are engaging in the debate have in view the economy of the First Covenant, meaning the practice which those under the First Covenant lived and participated in, others have in view the basic law of God and that which God has expressed as His will for man.
It is the responsibility of the one seeking to teach to...teach.
And that is apparently not important, or this debate would have ended already.
As born again believers we understand without doubting that we do not, as has been suggested, believe that we have liberty to murder, commit adultery, lie, steal...et cetera.
But we do not, on the other hand, disregard the clear teaching of the New Testament which clearly states that we do not live according to the law in the sense that the first century Jew under the ministry of Christ would have looked at it.
By the way...I call Him the Holy Spirit too...:thumbsup:
God bless.
It is one thing to ask some to mention who they are talking to and quite another to accuse me of such non sense as a (License to sin) I have not advocated this at all you are completely wrong. Following Christ is not disrgarding the Law quite the contrary. You see to be like Christ is to allow Christ the right to perfect us in our following of Him.
Then why are you tempting God my friend. By accussing me of something I never claimed or stated at all. There is a huge difference between focusing on Christ and sinning all we want to. By the way just how sinless are you? You must not be very perfect to judge a brother falsely. In fact your claims sound more pentecostal than Baptist.
Actually the Jewish Law has been fulfilled. If we follow Christ and Love our neighbors as our selves we are keeping the whole Law. By the way do you go to Church on Sunday or Saturday? You see if you don't go on Saturday your breaking God's Law and James says;
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Give me a break Your so hypocritical you can't see the forest for the trees. Do me a favor don't try to take the splinter out of my eye.
All scripture is important but that isn't really what I think you're getting at. It seems to me that you rather enjoy standing in judgement of others. I'll bet you believe your self to be sinnless right now, don't you?
Stop putting words in my mouth I never said God did away with the Law that is entirely in your own little mind not mine. Paul said;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Your now judging Paul why not take it up with HIM.
MB
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Hello Steve, I have to admit that I am a little disappointed that this conversation has been what appears to me to be a little misleading.
Okay, I would like to ask how you view this passage:
Acts 15
King James Version (KJV)
1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Now in trying to bring the relation of God's will before and after the law was given, meaning the First Covenant, we understand that circumcision is found in both periods.
The phrase "after the manner of Moses" is used here, so we can look at this as these men were trying to impose the "keeping of the Law." Again, I point out that Abraham also was commanded to circumcise, so we have precedence and can view this beyond just the Levitical Economy, but understand it was God's will that this be carried out.
First question would be...are we as Christians to carry this practice out? If not...why not?
See what I mean about the conversation being at cross purposes?
5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Now what is in view here? Is Paul upset that these believing Pharisees sought to teach Gentiles...the law of God?
6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Absolutely amazing...they had to consider it.
What is more amazing is what follows:
7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Sounds good, but Peter would in the future play the hypocrite, and not adhere to what he is saying here.
8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
I cannot understand why it would be thought irreverent to call God by the name which He is given in many places?
Anyway, here we see that in view are born again believers among the Gentiles.
9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
There is neither Jew nor Greek. All are saved the same way, right?
And...drumroll please (lol):
10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
What was it that the fathers nor they could bear?
5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
My primary point is this, brother Steve: it must be priority that if we seek to teach concerning the Law of God, we do not confuse the matter so that the kind of argument seen here, which technically we might say has both sides saying something that is true, and even embraced by both sides.
A simple "What we are talking about is that as believers we still believe firmly that we are not to murder, lie, steal...et cetera," would have put the issue to rest and from there a study which mught have edified all could have commenced.
Of course both sides believe the above, of course both sides believe that salvation is through the grace of God (we hope), so where does the argument begin? And I will ask that question without comment, my friend.
12Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Now here is an event that is seldom duplicated among Christians (on the forums...lol)...they kept silence, and gave audience...lol.
And if you don't mind, I will skip to the actual passage I originally intended to post, as I am out of time:
23And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Much could be said here, but I will await your response.
28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
As just a last bit of commentary, on my part, I would suggest there is a reason in which it was not decided by the Council to throw in "Do not Kill, Steal, Murder..."
...because it was not decided by the Council. It was made known to them by the Holy Ghost...God.
When the nature of man is changed in the new birth, and, as you have stated, "the law of God is written on our hearts," it is our nature to know these things, and I can guarantee not one person here will say, "I have license to sin."
But, as the OP is misleading, whether intentional or not I cannot say, what the Holy Spirit will provoke within our hearts is a rejection of vague references to keeping the law.
If this had been done, there would have been more unity among those here. That is my belief, anyway.
God bless.
From the assortment I have had to engage me there seems no limit to the variety but they have all been consistant on the idea that the Bible Jesus, Paul, peter and the other followers of Jesus taught from, the Old Testament of the Christian Bible. I have even encountered the statement that all the swcripture a New Testament Christian needs to read is the Sermonh on the Mount.
I´m sorry, Darrell, I need a little light on this point, it has escaped me.
I should have left this this alone except for the highlighted in red. As a person claiming the name of Christ you have a responsibility to Him and by lying and putting words, never published by this man nor any of us you have accused, you have tolod a lie! None of us have sought ot place you nor anyone else under the penalty of the Law, thatś a flat out lie! But the very moment any of you self proclaimed New Testament Theologians toss the commandments of God/Jesus in the trash you have led Baby Christians and some of the seven to ten year olds that read that trash into Hell!
The only real defense any of you can mount to defend your heretical rubbish is to push the lie that folks teaching the whole of scripture are seeking to put your, probably, lost souls under the Law, rubbish! Ploease, if needed, go back to school and learn to discern and to comprehend context and then pray for the Holy Spirit to replace the lying spirit in you and to loead you into righteousness.
I am not going to give this post the attention you are seeking, rathyer I am going to ask you to go get a glass of iced tea and to sit down and to drink it slowly as you pray. Then, please, with a cooler head, go back ad reread the post you have responded to and try to respond a bit more thoughtfully. I, very much dislike putting people on ignore but I am close to that in your case. Let´s stop the tit for tat and begin to thoughtfully discuss.