Seminary trustees to confront president over audit, management issues

[jonathan.borland]

in my home state of Wisconsin,

I was born in Oconomowoc, but haven't been back since I was 6 months old. Sometimes I wonder how the church is up there.

 

[mandym]

Wow. That's the opposite of most churches I have known. How do you teach our connection to other Christian expressions and the broader Baptist family?

You will have to be more clear here.

Regarding the non-use of periodicals (I assume that means purchased curriculum too, but please correct me if I assume too much), is that an intential rejection of that kind of material or is it that your church fits it doesn't need it?

Yes it is. the teaching in them is great for those who do not have a more mature understanding of scripture but we are not limited by that.

In our church, I have found the commercially-available material so weak that I have taken to writing all of the curriculum I use, as well as one strand of curriculum for the youth program.

I wouldn't have the time to do that and its not necessary here.

That's good. Most Baptist churches I have known avoid even discussing spiritual gifts, much less encouraging people to use their gifts in ministry.

It is an integral part of discipleship

How do your measure the effectiveness of your church's structure? How have you had to address the changes brought about by the rapid growth of your congregation in the last two years as it affects your active discipling in your church's various ministries? Did you find that the older members are prepared to train the newer converts without much assistance from you?

It has placed a lot of work on me. The growth was not necessarily expected but a result of some very simple things that were being ignored for years. We have had some good people step up and some others needed more encouragement along the way. I measure effectiveness by spiritual growth and discipleship. Are we getting people involved in it. As long as there are advances in that then we are doing well. But we can do all the right things and see no fruit. I will not allow lour church to be so focused on counting noses.

What ministries does you church provide that are focused inwardly? And which ones outwardly?

Anything that involved strengthening families in the Lord.

Do you have an organized evangelistic training program?

That is part of discipleship training.

Does your church have a special/niche social ministry to the broader community such as a homeless ministry, crisis pregnancy ministry, etc.?

No, no specialized focus on any social groups.

Do you partner with other like-minded churches in our to reach/minister to your community?

Yep love doing it. We have held a community prayer meeting where a number of churches were involved. A creationism conference where we cooperated with another church.

 

[Tom Butler]

I'm trying to figure out how we got so far astray from the OP.

 

[gb93433]

I'm trying to figure out how we got so far astray from the OP.

Too many dogs in the fight.

 

[glfredrick]

I was born in Oconomowoc, but haven't been back since I was 6 months old. Sometimes I wonder how the church is up there.

What church...

I say that tongue in cheek -- sort of -- for the evangelical presence in Wisconsin is few and far between. There are local congregations scattered here and there and even a few of some size that can reach beyond their own four walls into other communities, but those are rare indeed.

Wisconsin is a wide-open mission field -- and I mean "mission." It is a "post-gospel" society where only a missional effort will work.

Some areas of the state are as little as 3% evangelized and the state is a bastion of liberal activities inclduding having the distinction of housing the largest pagan and wiccan populations in the nation.

I'm with Southern Baptists so I know our numbers best. Minnesota/Wisconsin is a two-state convention. Between the two states we have just under 200 congregations. 2/3 of the counties of both states have no SBC work. 1/3 of the counties have no evangelical work at all. As a comparison, the Louisville Kentucky metro area has about 180 SBC congregations right now. That is essentially one county in Kentucky and that a bit north of the Bible belt where the real concentration of congregations exists.

I know that there are also IFB, GARB, American, and a few other Baptist organizations, plus the E-Free and Bible Church movement, but rarely are those large congregations. Most that I see, if I see them at all, are smallish places running under 100 in membership by the number of cars in the lot at any given time -- some MUCH smaller -- more like 25!

I'm of a mind that more folks should heed the missional call of God to evangelize the Great Lakes region (as well as the Pacific Northwest and the Atlantic Northeast!) all of which are essentially unchurched and below the number of adherents in lands across the ocean to which we send missionaries often. The thing I most often hear when I ask "Who will go?" is "It is so cold and the people are so hard..." Yup, but it is okay. All those frozen Norweigians and Germans up there will get thawed out well by the fires of hell. :tear:

 

[jonathan.borland]

Thanks for that, glfredrick!

I rarely hear about missions in the north central US, and what you shared was moving. Also, I understand about the reasons people have reservations about packing up the family and moving up there. One of the concerns we had before moving to our current place of service was that the year round mean temperature was 33 degrees! Some winter nights see negative 20 to negative 35 degrees Fahrenheit. At least the city has coal powered radiator heat for six months of the year. But living where the Lord calls is easier than living where he hasn't. He sustains.

 

[gb93433]

The thing I most often hear when I ask "Who will go?" is "It is so cold and the people are so hard..." Yup, but it is okay.

When I considered planting a church in the Pacific NW I was asked why I wanted to come. When I told them that I was from there, they said that was good because too many want to come who are not willing to work very hard and that does not work.

There are too many experts in places where it is easy to setup a church. They need to be silenced and forced to move to regions of the country where discipleship must be done to conserve the fruits of evangelism. Then they will get a real education. To many seminary students are misled to think that they should have certain numbers by a certain date in a church. In some places people are skeptical and they want to see a real Christian and so it takes time. Sometimes a long time. I find that those kind of people who are not won easily are also less likely to wander.

I have been told that the next expected Bible belt is in the area of SD. A lot of great things are happening in WA and OR.

 

[Jerome]

I'm of a mind that more folks should heed the missional call of God to evangelize the Great Lakes region (as well as the Pacific Northwest and the Atlantic Northeast!) all of which are essentially unchurched

There are too many experts in places where it is easy to setup a church. They need to be silenced and forced to move to regions of the country where discipleship must be done to conserve the fruits of evangelism. Then they will get a real education.

Then you've got trendy church in Louisville touting its foray into home missions. Where is it sending its two big church planting teams?

. . .Chattanooga, and . . . suburban Atlanta.

 

[gb93433]

Then you've got trendy church in Louisville touting its foray into home missions. Where is it sending its two big church planting teams?

. . .Chattanooga, and . . . suburban Atlanta.

The article stated that is where the people are comfortable. People with a southern accent would be quite noticeable in a non-southern area. Too often people from other areas are unable to leave behind their culture and adopt the new culture.

God bless them as they go. I hope they do very well.

The last number I saw is that about 80% of the new church plants fail within two years. It is the same for businesses. Sometimes the best education we can get is failure. Failure is when we learn to turn to God and realize we not so good as we thought.

My most productive ministry has been in areas where typically it is hard to reach people. I am a straight talker and honest with people. If people tell me there are issues in churches. I agree and tell them that there are impostors everywhere. That discussion quickly ends and moves to where it needs to be. The real issue is what our relationshipo wiht God is like. I quickly get past the religious nonsense and do not care about building images to make something look great. Greatness stands on it own.

What they do with Christ is the real issue. The cultured religious folks often do not me. I give straight talk and straight answers and then want "sweet Jesus" with frosting on top instead of the real Jesus.

 

[glfredrick]

Thanks for that, glfredrick!

I rarely hear about missions in the north central US, and what you shared was moving. Also, I understand about the reasons people have reservations about packing up the family and moving up there. One of the concerns we had before moving to our current place of service was that the year round mean temperature was 33 degrees! Some winter nights see negative 20 to negative 35 degrees Fahrenheit. At least the city has coal powered radiator heat for six months of the year. But living where the Lord calls is easier than living where he hasn't. He sustains.

I lived in Wisconsin for most of my adult life, until I moved to Kentucky to attend Southern Seminary and spent the next 15 years in school and work before returning home.

I've found that it is MUCH easier to add clothing until one is sufficiently warm than it is to parade around the south totally naked (neked) and still be dripping hot. :laugh:

Once it is cold, the rest is all rather relative, save for the time of exposure. Cold is also a state of mind, i.e., the absence of heat.

But I understand when EVERYONE indicates that God is calling them to a ministry in South Palm Beach. :wavey: (Yeah, right...)

 

[glfredrick]

Then you've got trendy church in Louisville touting its foray into home missions. Where is it sending its two big church planting teams?

. . .Chattanooga, and . . . suburban Atlanta.

That article failed to mention the 20+ other church starts, some in Boston, some in New York, London, Paris, etc., and hopefully several in Wisconsin as soon as I can get them off the ground.

Get more accurate info from Sojourn itself before going off the deep end (oh, and as far as I know, the Chattanogah plant is now off).

www.sojournnetwork.com

http://churchplanting.sojournchurch.com/

I come from that "trendy church in Louisville" and have watched them start from about 12 kids just out of their teens into a 4-campus vigourous ministry that sees an average attendence above 2800 on any given Sunday. Average age of the congregation remains under 35. Giving exceeds $2.5 million a year now and constantly growing. No programs. No Sunday school. No Sunday School Board (LifeWay) quarterlies, etc. Just the pure gospel based on the Word of God, from a Doctrines of Grace perspective. Baptisms run above 100 per year. Membership committment is by covenant -- one is required to do the work of a minister and support a community group aimed at expansion, as well as demonstrate the fruits of salvation before being accepted as a member. I dare say the requirements are much more difficult and the bar much higher than any other congregation I've seen, save a few others with similar expectations of their people.

Trendy, perhaps. Serving God -- MOST definitely!

 

[Jerome]

Get more accurate info from Sojourn itself before going off the deep end (oh, and as far as I know, the Chattanogah plant is now off).

The C-J article is from last Friday.

And from the website of the Chattanooga clone:

Sojourn Chattanooga

Latest Tweets
It's official... we're having an information meeting February 23 @ 630pm! Pray for us, come and bring a friend.
about 3 hours ago

 

[glfredrick]

The C-J article is from last Friday.

And from the website of the Chattanooga clone:

Perhaps they are going forward anyway. I have a close friend who was supposed to be on that team and he indicated that the plant was off. Perhaps just he was off the team.

But, that still does not cover all the other plants in the works all over the country and abroad, does it, though I agree with planting efforts "south".

Virtually all it takes to start a new congregation in the heart of the Bible belt is to show up and hang out a sign.

Really a different deal once you go northward where your partner church may be 100 miles away and your funds are whatever you (YOU) can afford today. Yet, I fully expect to see 10+ congregations started under my ministry in the next 10 years. There is a way to do it, but it does take a missional sense instead of a "church extension" sense, that is, unless the church that tries to extend is willing to hive off hundreds of people to permenantly relocate, and that is rare.

 

[gb93433]

I've found that it is MUCH easier to add clothing until one is sufficiently warm than it is to parade around the south totally naked (neked) and still be dripping hot.

Once you live in a hot climate it begins to feel normal and everywhere else feels cold. One advantage to a hot climate is that you eat less. I can remember a time when I went to visit someone and they told me how they felt so hot and I was in a light coat.