OSAS1, OSAS2, or OSAS3

[DHK]

OSAS1 - The 5-Point Calvinist belief in OSAS, sometimes called Perservence of the Saints. This belief is connected to Unconditional Election/ Irresistable Grace as its basis for OSAS or perservence.

This is a fallacy. The doctrine of the eternal security of the believer has precious little to do with Calvinism. It existed long before what is known as "Calvinism" ever existed. Most non-Cals on this board believe in eternal security. It is a doctrine totally distinct from Calvinism.

 

[drfuss]

I don't know why the term "perseverance" was chosen but I do agree that "preservation" is the better term.

The P in the TULIP is "Perseverance of the Saints" is the reason it was chosen.

 

[drfuss]

There are no multipul versions to understand. OSAS is defined in itself. The issue is "saved", and nothing more or less. It has nothing to do with the 5 points of Calvinism, nor any flawed theology that one can stop believing in that which they have a personal knowledge of is an absolute truth.

When one is saved according to the bible's definition of saved, then they are saved forever according to the bible's teaching on the saved. You can talk about backsliding, and unconfessed sins, and faithlessness, etc, but these are all seperate issues apart from having anything to do with the sufficiency of God to keep one saved and secured in Christ.

Okay, it sounds like you believe in OSAS2 or OSAS4, or maybe both. Which one is it? Can you accept OSAS3?

 

[Amy.G]

I believe in OSASBJ.


Once Saved Always Saved By Jesus! :thumbs:

 

[DaChaser1]

Okay, now we have OSAS4, Preservation of the Saints in accordance with Winman's definition.

Another would be severe Lordship salvation, that one can live for God well long time, but still not adhere to keeping the law well enough long enough, and might show themselves not really saved!

Almost like true christian cannot sin in an habitual matter at all, must observe/obey commandments of God!

So the one who keeps to the end will prove to be real in the end, no fake christians cam mimic that, so all real ones stay saved!

 

[annsni]

The P in the TULIP is "Perseverance of the Saints" is the reason it was chosen.

Yes, I understand that but I was saying that "preservation" is more of the idea that I think that the "perseverance of the saints" means - not that they "work" to keep their salvation but that God keeps them.

 

[drfuss]

I believe in OSASBJ.


Once Saved Always Saved By Jesus! :thumbs:

Yes, but which version of OSAS do you believe? You can not believe all of them without a contradiction. For instance, OSAS2 and OSAS3 contradict each other.

 

[drfuss]

Another would be severe Lordship salvation, that one can live for God well long time, but still not adhere to keeping the law well enough long enough, and might show themselves not really saved!

Almost like true christian cannot sin in an habitual matter at all, must observe/obey commandments of God!

So the one who keeps to the end will prove to be real in the end, no fake christians cam mimic that, so all real ones stay saved!

Wow! Could this be OSAS5?

 

[DaChaser1]

Wow! Could this be OSAS5?

could be, but I do NOT hold to thast, as one would reach a state of sinless perfection in that system!

maybe realised Westlyn?

can a saint that reached such a state per westley still loose his salvation?

 

[drfuss]

drfuss: Wow! Could this be OSAS5?

could be, but I do NOT hold to thast, as one would reach a state of sinless perfection in that system!

maybe realised Westlyn?

can a saint that reached such a state per westley still loose his salvation?

The reason I asked if that could be OSAS5 is that I did not think your description was really a version of OSAS.

 

[padredurand]

This is a fallacy. The doctrine of the eternal security of the believer has precious little to do with Calvinism. It existed long before what is known as "Calvinism" ever existed. Most non-Cals on this board believe in eternal security. It is a doctrine totally distinct from Calvinism.

Thank you DHK.

 

[steaver]

Okay, it sounds like you believe in OSAS2 or OSAS4, or maybe both. Which one is it? Can you accept OSAS3?

Kept by the power of God unto salvation (1Pt1)

Sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Eph 4:30)

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life (John 4:14)

 

[Michael Wrenn]

My first thought when I saw the thread title was, "Oh, no -- not again!"

This one is easy for me. I don't agree with any form or version of OSAS. Not 1-5, or 1-100.

 

[drfuss]

Originally Posted by drfuss
Okay, it sounds like you believe in OSAS2 or OSAS4, or maybe both. Which one is it? Can you accept OSAS3?

Kept by the power of God unto salvation (1Pt1)

Sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Eph 4:30)

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life (John 4:14)

So you can't make up your mind, or acknowledge, which OSAS you believe. Can you tell us which version of OSAS you are promoting here on BB, i.e. OSAS1, OSAS2, OSAS3 or OSAS4? How are we to know?

 

[DaChaser1]

drfuss: Wow! Could this be OSAS5?



The reason I asked if that could be OSAS5 is that I did not think your description was really a version of OSAS.

What about the irony that one could hold to attaining a state of spirit perfection, and yet still get lost!

 

[DHK]

I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

He can, and He will. Are those here that doubt His promise saying that he wont?

 

[billwald]

"Perseverance" is the correct term because an elect person will continue to "work out his salvation in fear and trembling."

 

[DHK]

"Perseverance" is the correct term because an elect person will continue to "work out his salvation in fear and trembling."

I am not a Calvinist, so I don't consider perseverance to be the correct word at all. The correct theological term for the concept that you are referring to is "sanctification," and has nothing to do with eternal security. I did refer to OSAS, that Christ has promised to keep me to the very end.

 

[steaver]

Originally Posted by drfuss
Okay, it sounds like you believe in OSAS2 or OSAS4, or maybe both. Which one is it? Can you accept OSAS3?




So you can't make up your mind, or acknowledge, which OSAS you believe. Can you tell us which version of OSAS you are promoting here on BB, i.e. OSAS1, OSAS2, OSAS3 or OSAS4? How are we to know?

Like I said in a previous post, the only OSAS I know is from the scriptures I have posted. If you feel a need to place me into a category of your own making then feel free to do so. You tell me what kind of a OSAS# I am.

 

[steaver]

I am not a Calvinist,

Now brother, you know all eternal security OSAS believers are Calvinist! We are at least a 1 point Calvinist. :laugh:

Which brings a thought to my mind, if the anti-osas camp considers all osas believers to be at least 1 point Calvinist, then it would not be wrong for us osas believers to consider all anti-osas proponents to be at least 1 point Mormonist. For the Mormons believe that a person must have merit for the blood of Christ to be applied on their behalf. Only after a person does the best they can do will the salvation of Christ be granted unto them. This sounds exactly like HP's argument on this subject. HP likes to call us all Calvinist, so I guess I will see him as a Mormonist to be fair.