Is God prejudiced?

[seekingthetruth]

We are taught as humans to not be prejudiced.

But, if God only gives salvation to some, and denies it to others, then doesnt that make God the ultimate racist?

Is God "no respector of persons"? or not?

John

 

[jbh28]

We are taught as humans to not be prejudiced.

But, if God only gives salvation to some, and denies it to others, then doesnt that make God the ultimate racist?

Is God "no respector of persons"? or not?

John

God is God. We are not God. First of all, God doesn't deny Salvation to anyone that comes to him in faith and repentance. Second, I'm not sure how this makes God a racist. Third, God is no respector of persons when he judges you. He doesn't care if you are from America or Japan. He doesn't care what color your eyes, hair, skin is. He doesn't care if you are a UNC or [snip] fan We will all be judged equally.

 

[seekingthetruth]

God is God. We are not God. First of all, God doesn't deny Salvation to anyone that comes to him in faith and repentance. Second, I'm not sure how this makes God a racist. Third, God is no respector of persons when he judges you. He doesn't care if you are from America or Japan. He doesn't care what color your eyes, hair, skin is. He doesn't care if you are a UNC or [snip] fan We will all be judged equally.

Ok, not based on color or nationality....why would God choose you to save and me to damn?

I have heard the argument from Cals about not believing in "double predestination", but how can it be any other way.

I mean, if God doesnt choose to save you, then must have chosen to damn you.

Which is it?

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

God is God. We are not God. First of all, God doesn't deny Salvation to anyone that comes to him in faith and repentance. Second, I'm not sure how this makes God a racist. Third, God is no respector of persons when he judges you. He doesn't care if you are from America or Japan. He doesn't care what color your eyes, hair, skin is. He doesn't care if you are a UNC or [snip] fan We will all be judged equally.

Ok, then salvation is available to anyone that wants it? Or just to the ones God chooses?

You said that "God doesn't deny Salvation to anyone that comes to him in faith and repentance"...ok, which is it? Can anyone come to God in faith? Or does God deny that ability to the ones He denies?

John

 

[annsni]

Romans 9 is so clear on this:

And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

 

[jbh28]

Ok, not based on color or nationality....why would God choose you to save and me to damn?

I have heard the argument from Cals about not believing in "double predestination", but how can it be any other way.

I mean, if God doesnt choose to save you, then must have chosen to damn you.

Which is it?

John

People are damned because of their sin. God doesn't have to choose you for this.

 

[jbh28]

Ok, then salvation is available to anyone that wants it? Or just to the ones God chooses?

Yes

You said that "God doesn't deny Salvation to anyone that comes to him in faith and repentance"...ok, which is it? Can anyone come to God in faith? Or does God deny that ability to the ones He denies?

John

God denies no one. The issue is that you are looking at electing through your understanding. I'm not being critical about you at all. We all do this. Remember, we also believe in total depravity. So we believe that man doesn't naturally want to come to Christ. It's only by the work of the Holy Spirit that man ever wants to come to Christ. So anyone that wants to come to Christ may come. Election is not about God keeping people out of heaven.

God is not standing at the gate of heaven choosing some and rejecting others that are coming to him. Rather, all are going away from him and he chooses some.

We will never on this earth understand God's sovereignty vs man's free will. If you were to ask God what day I was going to die, he could tell you. He's in full control of that date. I will not die a second before that time. If I jump off the empire state building, I'm going to die. Mindbogglingly? Sure!

So believe and preach the gospel. Christ's death is sufficient for all. Praise God for choosing and saving you.

 

[Iconoclast]

Romans 9 is so clear on this:

:thumbs::applause::thumbs::wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

We are taught as humans to not be prejudiced.

But, if God only gives salvation to some, and denies it to others, then doesnt that make God the ultimate racist?

Is God "no respector of persons"? or not?

John

Do you Trust God....or Not?????
25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

 

[seekingthetruth]

Romans 9 is so clear on this:

There has been much discussion about romans 9 in recent weeks on the BB.

And respectfully, what you see as individual election I see as corporate election, first the Jew, then the Gentile.

Jacob (Isreal) I loved , Esau (Islam) I hated, and so forth.

Anyway, I dont see our differences worthy of the ridicule some of the Reformed Brothers have recently bestowed upon us regular Christians, calling us ignorant, uneducated, heretic and even unsaved.

I got upset and now find myself acting no different than them. And this must stop.

So, I will now bow out of the argument between Cals and regular Christians.

Perhaps I will shift my debate to the political forum since this is an election year and Obama is doing so much to create controversy:thumbs:

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

Do you Trust God....or Not?????
25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Icon, I cant see your posts when I am logged on since you have been in ignore ever since you stated your doubt about non-cals being saved,

So do yourself a favor and ignore me in return.

I need Christian friends, but i dont need you

John

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, I cant see your posts when I am logged on since you have been in ignore ever since you stated your doubt about non-cals being saved,

So do yourself a favor and ignore me in return.

I need Christian friends, but i dont need you

John

I do not ignore or censor anyone. You do not interact with any scripture,you fail to respond to solid teaching, you despise godly teachers like J.L.Dagg.
You can only be critical and show disdain for God and his word.Your posts are all hit and run....no scripture, nothing edifying.....do you think I am saving them? Many have tried to reason with you.When anyone does,you ignore them.
Why not try and offer something. I am not that interested in your posting, because what is there to look at? You do not seem to speak of Jesus, his love or mercy. You seem to doubt God's goodness,you doubt His purpose.
can you find something you have posted that is helpful???

You do not like my posts....but if you look back, it is you who adds words,and thoughts, that i have not said. You distort the posts to say something they do not. Read them for yourself.
i asked you to respond to dagg's article.....i asked you to re-write the confession.....your frustration is that you cannot...so you find me to be an easier target....I understand.:wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

John...maybe you missed the post...so here it is again;

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekingthetruth
Which book of the Bible did JL Dagg write?

John

As a pastor and teacher he was not called upon by God to write scripture....God had others do that.he was called upon to labor in the word and doctrine,to help others who want to learn....I think I read something about that.....let me see:

Quote:
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Some like JlDagg


12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

John...you can resist all you want...but God has put pastors and teachers in His church. many of these servants spent their lifetimes in the scripture to help us. Trusted guides and teachers are to read with caution, but not despised. Did you read the link??? Go back and read it....you will learn something if you are teachable. You can offer correction and disagree with him if you want....but to be quite honest...this will be wilful iqnorance.

Can you teach any of what these men teach? can you offer an alternative?


Take election for example.....write your own explanation for the biblical teaching, and improve upon what dagg offers....do it right here in this thread.

Then take the topics discussed in the 1689 confession of faith....write your own understanding of it in your own words ...I will print them out and compare....let's see who knows what the bible teaches.

Do you just despise the teaching so much ,that you can not learn from these men....or are you just too lazy to read through and work on improving your knowledge of Divine truth.
you say you believe the bible....good, so did Dagg. lets see who knows what the bible teaches...dagg wrote down his understanding...now this is the time where you are being asked so to speak.......to put up, or shut up.....I think that is how the expression goes!
__________________


I think you cannot do it...but go ahead and try......if you cannot do it...i would say that maybe you should not be critcal when you cannot begin to offer an alternative.

 

[seekingthetruth]

John...maybe you missed the post...so here it is again;

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekingthetruth
Which book of the Bible did JL Dagg write?

John

As a pastor and teacher he was not called upon by God to write scripture....God had others do that.he was called upon to labor in the word and doctrine,to help others who want to learn....I think I read something about that.....let me see:

Quote:
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Some like JlDagg


12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

John...you can resist all you want...but God has put pastors and teachers in His church. many of these servants spent their lifetimes in the scripture to help us. Trusted guides and teachers are to read with caution, but not despised. Did you read the link??? Go back and read it....you will learn something if you are teachable. You can offer correction and disagree with him if you want....but to be quite honest...this will be wilful iqnorance.

Can you teach any of what these men teach? can you offer an alternative?


Take election for example.....write your own explanation for the biblical teaching, and improve upon what dagg offers....do it right here in this thread.

Then take the topics discussed in the 1689 confession of faith....write your own understanding of it in your own words ...I will print them out and compare....let's see who knows what the bible teaches.

Do you just despise the teaching so much ,that you can not learn from these men....or are you just too lazy to read through and work on improving your knowledge of Divine truth.
you say you believe the bible....good, so did Dagg. lets see who knows what the bible teaches...dagg wrote down his understanding...now this is the time where you are being asked so to speak.......to put up, or shut up.....I think that is how the expression goes!
__________________


I think you cannot do it...but go ahead and try......if you cannot do it...i would say that maybe you should not be critcal when you cannot begin to offer an alternative.

I am probably even more stupid than you think I am

You are right though, I am an idiot and I will never ever try to have a conversation with anyone as intelligent as you again.

 

[convicted1]

If Romans 9 rings true like some on here purport it to be, it exalts man above God. Apostle Paul stated that he would be willing to make himself accursed for his kinsmen after the flesh. Now, if God had no love for them, and that Jesus did not even die for them, and yet, Paul was willing to make himself accursed for their sakes, then Paul's love for his fellow Israelites was greater than God's love for them.

Take for instance your children. You raise you children the best way you know to. You'd even be willing to fall on a sword, run through a brickwall, run through a burning building, be beheaded for them, etc. Now, if they were born as one of the non-elect, then Christ never died for them, never took their sins upon Himself, never prayed for them, yet, when they were at home(and still home in some of yall's cases), you prayed/pray for them, love them, took care of them, spent sleepless nights with them when they were sick, etc. But God doesn't love them the way you do?

 

[convicted1]

If Romans 9 rings true like some on here purport it to be, it exalts man above God. Apostle Paul stated that he would be willing to make himself accursed for his kinsmen after the flesh. Now, if God had no love for them, and that Jesus did not even die for them, and yet, Paul was willing to make himself accursed for their sakes, then Paul's love for his fellow Israelites was greater than God's love for them.

Take for instance your children. You raise you children the best way you know to. You'd even be willing to fall on a sword, run through a brickwall, run through a burning building, be beheaded for them, etc. Now, if they were born as one of the non-elect, then Christ never died for them, never took their sins upon Himself, never prayed for them, yet, when they were at home(and still home in some of yall's cases), you prayed/pray for them, love them, took care of them, spent sleepless nights with them when they were sick, etc. But God doesn't love them the way you do?

Now, b4 I get labelled a plagarist, I want to clarify something. I took some of this from a post by Brother Webdog from a year or two ago. What he posted was very thought provoking.

 

[annsni]

There has been much discussion about romans 9 in recent weeks on the BB.

And respectfully, what you see as individual election I see as corporate election, first the Jew, then the Gentile.

Jacob (Isreal) I loved , Esau (Islam) I hated, and so forth.

Anyway, I dont see our differences worthy of the ridicule some of the Reformed Brothers have recently bestowed upon us regular Christians, calling us ignorant, uneducated, heretic and even unsaved.

I got upset and now find myself acting no different than them. And this must stop.

So, I will now bow out of the argument between Cals and regular Christians.

Perhaps I will shift my debate to the political forum since this is an election year and Obama is doing so much to create controversy:thumbs:

John

Even if it ISN'T about individual election, it still answers your question in your OP.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Even if it ISN'T about individual election, it still answers your question in your OP.

Good point Ann. I didnt consider the people that blatantly reject Christ,

John

 

[Iconoclast]

John...maybe you missed the post...so here it is again;


I am probably even more stupid than you think I am

You are right though, I am an idiot and I will never ever try to have a conversation with anyone as intelligent as you again.

You do not have to go and play the victim here! Look back at your posts.
no one called you names, or anything like that.If anything...you were given fair answers to your questions, comments, and attacks.

I do not think non cals are stupid. If anything...sometime they over think what is revealed and speculate in a way that is not wise.

To not be able to understand something...then ask questions and try to learn would be wise. To just make snide remarks....not interact with the answers given.....{what part of the Nt, did Dagg write?{.....now that is stupid:thumbsup:

You are right though, I am an idiot and I will never ever try to have a conversation with anyone as intelligent as you again

I am a truck driver.....I am very easy to talk to.If you come with a sincere question, i will respond and try and offer helpful verses or links , that if you read them can help. On the thread with the Dagg article on election, I offered several good links.
Are you going to agree with them??? That is between you and God. I would ask you to go back and re-read them:thumbsup:

You might learn from them as I have. You might disagree with them. If you disagree with them...in part or completely, at least you will gain knowledge of why calvinists believe as they do...scripturally.

I will make the same offer to you that I would to anyone on here.If you would like to meet at a diner, over a cup of coffee with open bibles that would be good. We do not have to be , or remain theological enemies, even if you disagree with most of what i would profess as truth.

If you come at me as an enemy, and I defend my position,and go about to defeat your false ideas....naturally the tone is not going to be quite as friendly. If you jump into the deep end of the pool, you need to know how to swim:wavey:

 

[Tom Butler]

Let me throw in a couple of thoughts to stimulate more discussion.

Nowhere in the Scriptures do we find that God is not partial. In fact, the Scriptures are filled with verses which teach that he is.

He was certainly partial toward Abraham and his descendants, for the set them apart as the line through whom the Messiah would be born. He was certainly partial to Jacob more than Esau. He was certainly partial to David more than all his brothers.

Now, this question: Does God owe man anything? If He does, wouldn't that exclude grace from salvation?

Ah, one might say, God owes everyone a chance to be saved. But what about the heathen who died without ever hearing the gospel?

Let me quote Thomas Paul Simmons from his book "A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine."

A "chance" to be saved accomplishes nothing for man. One might as well talk of giving a totally paralyzed man a "chance" to walk. Every such man that is not physically bound has every possible "chance" to walk. But the "chance" is of no value to him in the absence of ability. Lost men are spiritually dead. They must have ability to come to Christ (John 6:65). Some will say that God owes this ability to man but this ability is salvation in the germ; and hence if God owes this ability, salvation is not of grace.

A natural reaction to all this would be "well, that's not fair."

Folks, I don't want God's fairness. I want his mercy. If God is fair to us all, we are all in bad shape. We really don't want to get what we deserve.