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Is the SBC really Baptist?

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Baptist Press releases here.

Thanks! No time to look at it now but I wanted to have access to that information. I knew about the site but have never looked into it in depth to see what kind of material is posted.

To sum up, it appears that these clauses are recommended (although not mandated except maybe in a denominational plant) as a way to prevent a charismatic takeover or some other kind of takeover by a group with different beliefs. In that case it's a takeover by a "hostile" group, similar to a corporate raider that stages a hostile takeover. So there's the danger of a takeover one way or another.

But a group can also come in and make it a charismatic church without leaving the SBC and there's no recourse if they have the votes. There are plenty of charismatic SBC churches, although it's still a small minority overall.

A lot of IFB churches are so closely affiliated with a certain Bible College or Seminary as to seemingly bow to every pronouncement from on high. But all the while they tout their independency. This is similar to the same kind of peer pressure that is prevalent in the SBC, whether it's unthinking traditionalism ("this is the way we've always done it") or jumping on board with the latest fad like 40 Days or whatever because "everybody is doing it" and "it works."
 

12strings

Active Member
is the SBC trying to get their 'official" position as regarding salvation to be as a calvinist bent?

Seems trying to get such in their Seminaries...

Would that be an example of having a formal creed one must adhere to ?

The SBC Entity is not trying to get a specific salvation theology to be adhered to, and is generally seeking to bridge the rift between the two sides.

Now, there are specific people and groups pushing for or against it. SWTS & Paige Patterson are definitely pushing against it...Founders pushing for it.

At Southern and Southeastern Seminaries, there is a rise of reformed teachers and students, though it is interesting that SBTS has NO CALVINIST DEANS!

However, Neither SBTS, SEBTS, or even founders is pushing for a calvinistic Creed or statement as a test of fellowship in the SBC, or entrance in to a seminary.

If anything, Paige Patterson has made rejection of calvinism a test for employment at SWTS, to the detriment of open discussion at that school.
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
Pre 20th century who held to soul competency--start with Smith, Helwys, and Williams.

Soul competency has never meant that any individual is free to make up the rules on his or her own, believing whatever THEY WANT TO BELIEVE.

Rather, it affirms the RESPONSIBILITY of the believer to study the Scripture for him or herself, UNDER THE GUIDANCE AND AUTHORITY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

How that used to work out practically is that if I say understand scripture to teach young earth creationism (I don't!), it would not matter if 14 conventions and 3 popes tried to enforce old earth creationism on me, I would be free to continue as a member of my church and speak of what I believe.

It doesn't happen that way today. We set parameters and set out to enforce them. Just look at what happened to missionaries who would not reveal how they pray, privately and silently. Those that may not have ever in their life prayed in tongues, who are strict cessationists, but who were convicted that their most intimate moments with the Lord were between them and the Lord, lost their jobs.

I heartily support ANY Baptist group's right to write up a statement that makes clear what most of them believe.

It is when they begin to name call, ridicule, or attempt to enforce that understanding on others that I part company.

Thanks for an excellent post!
 

mandym

New Member
I have yet to see a legitimate case why the SBC is not Baptist. What I do continue to see is sour grapes over the loss of left wing political power over the convention.
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
I have yet to see a legitimate case why the SBC is not Baptist. What I do continue to see is sour grapes over the loss of left wing political power over the convention.

So, everyone who didn't like the fundamentalist gestapo purge was a left-winger, huh? And the fundie gestapo's political power over the convention is Christlike, huh? :rolleyes:

I guess the SBC being the religious wing of the Republican party is a historic Baptist principle, and also the denial of church-state separation that has become so widespread, the denial of Bible freedom, acceptance of reversion clauses, denial of soul liberty.
 

mandym

New Member
So, everyone who didn't like the fundamentalist gestapo purge was a left-winger, huh? And the fundie gestapo's political power over the convention is Christlike, huh? :rolleyes:

I guess the SBC being the religious wing of the Republican party is a historic Baptist principle, and also the denial of church-state separation that has become so widespread, the denial of Bible freedom, acceptance of reversion clauses, denial of soul liberty.

To bad your diatribe is so distorted it lacks any semblance of reality.
 

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have yet to see a legitimate case why the SBC is not Baptist.

I've been asking this time and time again in my replies. Other than some nettlesome criticisms there hasn't been a single point raised against the SBC as violating Baptist beliefs.:thumbsup:
 

mandym

New Member
I've been asking this time and time again in my replies. Other than some nettlesome criticisms there hasn't been a single point raised against the SBC as violating Baptist beliefs.:thumbsup:

If some cannot just do whatever in the world they want in our seminaries and committees then they cry foul and bemoan the good ole days before the resurgence when things could only be done in a left wing paradigm.
 

seekingthetruth

New Member
I've been asking this time and time again in my replies. Other than some nettlesome criticisms there hasn't been a single point raised against the SBC as violating Baptist beliefs.:thumbsup:

I was raised in an SBC church. Very conservative and very biblical.

I dont think that the teachings of SBC churches have changed, but i do think that a lot of them have become too tolerate of political correctness, to the point of not actually practicing what they preach.

The problem is not in the teaching, but in the practice.

Saddleback is a good example. Good teaching, but bad example.

Just my opinion.

john
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
If some cannot just do whatever in the world they want in our seminaries and committees then they cry foul and bemoan the good ole days before the resurgence when things could only be done in a left wing paradigm.

Your posts confirm over and over again that you see only two possible positions -- that of the pharisaical fundamentalist "resurgence" and anything that disagrees with them, which you falsely label "left-wing". There are also non-fundamentalist conservatives, moderate-conservatives, moderates, moderate-liberals, and liberals.

I'd like to see the mean-spirited fundies and liberals thrown into a pit and watch them tear each other to shreds. That would be justice.

My best friend is a fundamentalist, but he has the Spirit of Christ and the fruits thereof.
 

mandym

New Member
Your posts confirm over and over again that you see only two possible positions -- that of the pharisaical fundamentalist "resurgence" and anything that disagrees with them, which you falsely label "left-wing". There are also non-fundamentalist conservatives, moderate-conservatives, moderates, moderate-liberals, and liberals.

I'd like to see the mean-spirited fundies and liberals thrown into a pit and watch them tear each other to shreds. That would be justice.

My best friend is a fundamentalist, but he has the Spirit of Christ and the fruits thereof.

I have not used any of those labels.
 

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I just don't the "good ole days" routine of where the SBC was before the resurgence.

We have more missionaries out in the field, we are planting more churches now, our seminaries have higher enrollment, we have an increasingly younger clergy, we have some of the largest churches in the US, we are seeing continued growth in our agencies, and yet the olden days were better? I just don't see it.

I'm as concerned about some of the stuff in the SBC as others here...frankly, the biggest issue is the over inflated egos of a lot of the people who think they run the think...but we are doing really well at accomplishing the Gospel task given to us. Even better than before.
 

Michael Wrenn

New Member
I'll have to say this about the Baptist Convention in my state: They were the ONLY major denomination that supported our personhood amendment a few months ago which failed. The mealy-mouthed RC bishop didn't support it. The UMC woman bishop didn't support it, nor did the Episcopal bishop.
 
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