Baseless and Fallacious Charges Against a Believer

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

One of the most baseless and hollow charges made on this list brought repeatedly by DHK and others, is that if there are conditions to salvation, one of necessity believes in a works salvation like cults and false religions such as Hindus etc. etc. There is not the least reason for DHK or any other to level such a baseless charge against a follower of Jesus Christ. It shows an utter disregard for sound reasoning, just and fair consideration, or love and fair treatment towards the brethren. Let's explore this baseless charge for a minute.

In false religions and cult, often they do in fact believe that their actions in some way merit their standing with their gods. They do not believe that the blood of Jesus Christ and the mercy of God are the only grounds of salvation. Most do not even believe in Jesus period, and those that do, in the realm of the cults, deny His Deity.


I have not read one single person on this list that believes in conditions of salvation as set forth in Scripture that does not believe in the God of Scripture, His mercy to man, and the Deity of Jesus Christ. There is not one on this list that believes for a minute that there is any merit, in and of itself, in the fulfilling of any condition of salvation God has set forth; not in repentance, confession, believing, or obedience. There is not one on this list that denies all are sinners apart from Christ, and apart from the grace of God and the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the real meritorious basis of salvation, salvation is not, nor could it be, possible. There is not one solitary individual that I have read on this list that attributes the least merit to anything besides God's grace and the shed blood of Christ. All believe that it is the blood that saves, NOT any condition whatsoever commanded by God for us to fulfill. No obedience to God's commands to repent, exercise faith have the least merit to them. Still God does require them of us in order to receive salvation. God is Sovereign and has chosen the conditions under which He will bestow the hope of eternal lifer upon individuals, and has every right to place whatever conditions upon receiving His grace and mercy He so chooses.

Even the Jews in the OT understood clearly that no sacrifice had the least merit to it, although required by God, and that unless the sacrifices were brought with a sincere heart of repentance, it served no effective purpose. This truth is pointed out by the leading authority on Jewish antiquity, Alfred Edersheim, in his book entitled, "The Life and Times of Jesus Christ the Messiah." Just as God made sacrificial offerings conditional to receiving of His grace in the OT, God has made faith and repentance conditional to receiving of His grace in the NT.

Those that level the baseless charge of a works salvation for believing that the conditions set forth in Scripture by God in order to receive of salvation, are not only clueless as to the import of God's conditions, but are treating believers in a manner not in keeping with the least shred of Christian charity.

I certainly would not desire to stand in Judgment before a Holy and Just God having laid continually such false accusations and baseless charges against His children. God has a thing about such clear and wicked treatment of those He died for and loves, and desires to set justice in order against all that act in such a manner.

We all need to think carefully and choose our words wisely when speaking of another child of God. God does not forget and will recompense all in accordance to every idle word spoken and the deeds done in the flesh.

 

[preacher4truth]

The accusations aren't baseless. One has stated that those in Matthew 7:20ff are those who merely preached, prophesied, and other things as the text suggests.

The person commenting on this said they didn't do the will of God, and qualified that by stating they didn't help widows or orphans, things they had to DO to be saved, making salvation by ones work, not dependent upon the work of Christ.

The person? A Catholic on the BB. The teaching? False doctrine.

The thing that you don't get is that making a statement of belief means nothing. What you actually teach is the real test.

So, it is your OP is that is not factual nor does it represent the truth.

:wavey:

 

[Yeshua1]

The accusations aren't baseless. One has stated that those in Matthew 7:20ff are those who merely preached, prophesied, and other things as the text suggests.

The person commenting on this said they didn't do the will of God, and qualified that by stating they didn't help widows or orphans, things they had to DO to be saved, making salvation by ones work, not dependent upon the work of Christ.

The person? A Catholic on the BB. The teaching? False doctrine.

The thing that you don't get is that making a statement of belief means nothing. What you actually teach is the real test.

So, it is your OP is that is not factual nor does it represent the truth.

:wavey:

this is where the RCC makes there grave/fatal flaw in salvation!

Works are evidence of finished/accomplished saving done by The Lord , as real new life in christ will reflect/show up some way in how we live once saved!

NOT though part of the salvation process!

 

[preacher4truth]

this is where the RCC makes there grave/fatal flaw in salvation!

Works are evidence of finished/accomplished saving done by The Lord , as real new life in christ will reflect/show up some way in how we live once saved!

NOT though part of the salvation process!

If one of those poor souls would have only helped an orphan or a widow, heaven would be theirs!

It's interesting the one making this claim KNOWS these in Matthew 7:20ff did NOT help orphans or widows. :laugh:

All you have to do is read between the lines: they make a statement of faith, then deny it in their teachings.

 

[DHK]

One of the most baseless and hollow charges made on this list brought repeatedly by DHK and others, is that if there are conditions to salvation, one of necessity believes in a works salvation like cults and false religions such as Hindus etc. etc. There is not the least reason for DHK or any other to level such a baseless charge against a follower of Jesus Christ. It shows an utter disregard for sound reasoning, just and fair consideration, or love and fair treatment towards the brethren. Let's explore this baseless charge for a minute.

If you start with a false premise you will end with a false conclusion. I will close this thread only because of the name you gave it. Then, in your OP, which I am now answering, you attached my name to it.
HP, There are other forums. If you want to go to a COC site which has similar beliefs, or other Arminian sites you are welcome. But if you post that which is considered heresy within the realm of Orthodox Christianity be prepared to be shot down. Then don't complain about it.

Salvation is unconditional.
That is a fact. Either accept it. Refute it Biblically without complaint or accusation of others, or leave and find another place to post.
Those who don't believe it is unconditional, for the most part belong to cults and other religions. Those who don't believe it is unconditional believe in a religion of works. They take the opposite position by default--that it is conditional, that it has conditions, thus it is by works.

In false religions and cult, often they do in fact believe that their actions in some way merit their standing with their gods. They do not believe that the blood of Jesus Christ and the mercy of God are the only grounds of salvation. Most do not even believe in Jesus period, and those that do, in the realm of the cults, deny His Deity.

But they do believe salvation is by works; Christianity does not. And therein lies the comparison.

I have not read one single person on this list that believes in conditions of salvation as set forth in Scripture that does not believe in the God of Scripture, His mercy to man, and the Deity of Jesus Christ. There is not one on this list that believes for a minute that there is any merit, in and of itself, in the fulfilling of any condition of salvation God has set forth; not in repentance, confession, believing, or obedience.

The RCC may believe in all of the above to some extent, but they also are a cult IMO, believing that salvation is by works. If salvation is by works then you are a part of a cult.

There is not one on this list that denies all are sinners apart from Christ, and apart from the grace of God and the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the real meritorious basis of salvation, salvation is not, nor could it be, possible. There is not one solitary individual that I have read on this list that attributes the least merit to anything besides God's grace and the shed blood of Christ. All believe that it is the blood that saves, NOT any condition whatsoever commanded by God for us to fulfill. No obedience to God's commands to repent, exercise faith have the least merit to them. Still God does require them of us in order to receive salvation. God is Sovereign and has chosen the conditions under which He will bestow the hope of eternal lifer upon individuals, and has every right to place whatever conditions upon receiving His grace and mercy He so chooses.

But he did not. He said very plainly that salvation is the gift of God (Rom.6:23), and it is to be accepted by faith, and faith alone. There are no conditions. It is an unconditional gift. A works based salvation is a cultish belief.

Even the Jews in the OT understood clearly that no sacrifice had the least merit to it, although required by God, and that unless the sacrifices were brought with a sincere heart of repentance, it served no effective purpose. This truth is pointed out by the leading authority on Jewish antiquity, Alfred Edersheim, in his book entitled, "The Life and Times of Jesus Christ the Messiah." Just as God made sacrificial offerings conditional to receiving of His grace in the OT, God has made faith and repentance conditional to receiving of His grace in the NT.

We do not live in the OT. Christ was sacrificed once and once for all.

Those that level the baseless charge of a works salvation for believing that the conditions set forth in Scripture by God in order to receive of salvation, are not only clueless as to the import of God's conditions, but are treating believers in a manner not in keeping with the least shred of Christian charity.

Telling the truth is in keeping with Christian charity. It is warning of the consequences to come. Take heed of the direction you are going.

I certainly would not desire to stand in Judgment before a Holy and Just God having laid continually such false accusations and baseless charges against His children. God has a thing about such clear and wicked treatment of those He died for and loves, and desires to set justice in order against all that act in such a manner.

I have no regret in warning you of believing in a works-based salvation. I consider it my duty to point out the error: first the error that you personally believe in, and second, the error that you post for every one else that is reading.

We all need to think carefully and choose our words wisely when speaking of another child of God. God does not forget and will recompense all in accordance to every idle word spoken and the deeds done in the flesh.

The idle words that are spoken are those words which are not in accordance with God's words.