Mental illness and the Baptist Chuch

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Preacher, when you and I debate God's sovereignty, this is one thing i cannot ignore.....i am alive today, and have a better life because God granted it to me. He gave it to me in spite of me and not because of me, and it is up to me to keep my end of the deal.

John

WHAT A GIFT, Right! AMEN to dat:jesus:

 

[freeatlast]

Okay, I'll bite.

Big trouble how, pray tell?

The answer is in the bible, try it for once instead of making up your own religion.

 

[preacher4truth]

Preacher, when you and I debate God's sovereignty, this is one thing i cannot ignore.....i am alive today, and have a better life because God granted it to me. He gave it to me in spite of me and not because of me, and it is up to me to keep my end of the deal.

John

We all have a better life because God granted it to us, as He granted all things, i.e. faith, repentance, salvation, suffering &c.

I have a brother who is mentally ill, and seriously so. I've witnessed too many Christians treat others not up to their pharisaical level like trash.

 

[preacher4truth]

The answer is in the bible, try it for once instead of making up your own religion.

You're out of control. Practice self-control. :thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You're out of control. Practice self-control. :thumbs:

& sensitivity & humility! Instead of being so self righteous.

 

[DiamondLady]

boy, I go to dinner and this thread degraded into the gutter fast!

 

[agedman]

How do we, as good, Bible believing Baptists, place judgment on people with mental illnesses when it is no fault of the ill person at all?

A mental illness is no different from having MS or diabetes.

But yet, I hear so many "good" Baptists making snide remarks about mentally ill people.

I was born with a mental illness that I receive disability for. I worked for 35 years but when i got into my 50's my condition was so severe that i could not work anymore. A couple of people on the BB knew me when I was the most ill and know that what I am saying is true. I have been on meds for 3 years, i go to both secular psychiatrists and Christian counselors, and my life is much improved, even close to normal, but i have to work at it very hard to maintain it.

Let me add here that my IQ is well over 140, and I scored 98 1/2 percentile on my ASVAB test when I went into the Army, so intelligence has nothing to do with it. I am not stupid, but I do have a mental illness.

Why do "good" Baptist Believers make snide comments about people like me? Would they like it if they were sick and people made fun of them? I expect this from the world in general, but I would think that "good" Baptists would educate themselves and treat people with mental illnesses with the same respect they would anyone else.

Thank you for listening to my rant, and now, let me know how you feel about people who are mentally ill.

John

I re-posted the original op so folks could look again at the intent.

I have been reading, again, through the various posts on the thread.

I see the tremendous thoughts and support for those who are evidently having problems in mental areas.

I have a question that perhaps needs to be on a different thread, and if so let me know.

First the scenario:

Years ago, a married man underwent tremendous psychological changes due to both illness and injury. He retained the same IQ, but emotionally and his personality were no longer what he once was - he was completely different.

Basically, he could express no emotional feelings or respond with any affection or inflection. Other than give direct noninflected answers, with no analytic understanding of body language, appropriateness, or other cues that provide social interaction framework, he appeared to be normal. No smile, no frown, no awareness of how others might perceive something, nothing of emotive support to give to wife, family, friends... He was not a danger to society, but cold - heartless. No medication would help, and there was no improvement that would ever be a part of this person's living. The brain was damaged - repair was impossible.

Because he was no longer that person (and no hope of recovery), his wife for her own protection and that of their child moved out and away. Her concern was the emotional detriment would damage the child and her beyond what she could stand.

Staying within the OP parameters:

What responsibility do you suppose the church has in ministerial support for this person?

What would you do to provide for the needs of the family both physically and spiritually?

If this person were to visit your gathering, how might you respond to the person who would show no personality?

 

[seekingthetruth]

I re-posted the original op so folks could look again at the intent.

I have been reading, again, through the various posts on the thread.

I see the tremendous thoughts and support for those who are evidently having problems in mental areas.

I have a question that perhaps needs to be on a different thread, and if so let me know.

First the scenario:

Years ago, a married man underwent tremendous psychological changes due to both illness and injury. He retained the same IQ, but emotionally and his personality were no longer what he once was - he was completely different.

Basically, he could express no emotional feelings or respond with any affection or inflection. Other than give direct noninflected answers, with no analytic understanding of body language, appropriateness, or other cues that provide social interaction framework, he appeared to be normal. No smile, no frown, no awareness of how others might perceive something, nothing of emotive support to give to wife, family, friends... He was not a danger to society, but cold - heartless. No medication would help, and there was no improvement that would ever be a part of this person's living. The brain was damaged - repair was impossible.

Because he was no longer that person (and no hope of recovery), his wife for her own protection and that of their child moved out and away. Her concern was the emotional detriment would damage the child and her beyond what she could stand.

Staying within the OP parameters:

What responsibility do you suppose the church has in ministerial support for this person?

What would you do to provide for the needs of the family both physically and spiritually?

If this person were to visit your gathering, how might you respond to the person who would show no personality?

I think your question has everything to do with the intent of my OP, and I am anxious to see some repsonses from others.

I am afraid that any response that i give will be biased because of my own personal experiences...so please, carry on.

John

 

[agedman]

I think your question has everything to do with the intent of my OP, and I am anxious to see some repsonses from others.

I am afraid that any response that i give will be biased because of my own personal experiences...so please, carry on.

John

Please, biased or not - contribute your thinking!!!!!

 

[seekingthetruth]

Please, biased or not - contribute your thinking!!!!!

Well, i think the church is obligated to do anything they can for a sick person, be it a physical or mental illness. And i think that the ill person deserves the same respect and welcome to the congregation that anyone else would get.

As far as the wife????? Is she really afraid of her husband or is she just leaving because he is no longer normal? I have heard of people divorcing their spouses that have dementia and other mental illnesses out of selfishness. If this is the case then i don't feel the church has any responsibility to assist her in her sin.

But, if there is a real danger to the wife and kids then the church should help them to feel safe by providing whatever support makes that happen.

I have seen my pastor deal with families that were being abused by the father. Now, my pastor absolutely loathes a wife beater. But i have seen him a couple of times first get the family to a safe place, and then work with the abuser to try to help him heal with the intent of the family reaching reconciliation. In other words, he did not abandon either party, and he helped in different ways according to their needs.

So, my short answer is to protect the family first if need be, but don't abandon the person that is ill. Both sides need help.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

Well, i think the church is obligated to do anything they can for a sick person, be it a physical or mental illness. And i think that the ill person deserves the same respect and welcome to the congregation that anyone else would get.

As far as the wife????? Is she really afraid of her husband or is she just leaving because he is no longer normal? I have heard of people divorcing their spouses that have dementia and other mental illnesses out of selfishness. If this is the case then i don't feel the church has any responsibility to assist her in her sin.

But, if there is a real danger to the wife and kids then the church should help them to feel safe by providing whatever support makes that happen.

I have seen my pastor deal with families that were being abused by the father. Now, my pastor absolutely loathes a wife beater. But i have seen him a couple of times first get the family to a safe place, and then work with the abuser to try to help him heal with the intent of the family reaching reconciliation. In other words, he did not abandon either party, and he helped in different ways according to their needs.

So, my short answer is to protect the family first if need be, but don't abandon the person that is ill. Both sides need help.

John

Let me add that my own wife had a hard time accepting my illness, and even left me after i was diagnosed because she didnt think she could deal with it. Now she is my biggest supporter, but sometimes it takes a while for a spouse to realise that the person they are married to now is not the same person they married, and it is difficult for them.

John

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I never believed in Mental Illness. And my belief has been strengthened since I watched The Marketing of Madness video.

 

[Amy.G]

I never believed in Mental Illness. And my belief has been strengthened since I watched The Marketing of Madness video.

Seriously? Did you know that Charles Spurgeon suffered from severe depression? Do you think he was lying about it? Faking?

 

[annsni]

I never believed in Mental Illness. And my belief has been strengthened since I watched The Marketing of Madness video.

I believe in mental illness - especially after having a mentally ill young woman live with us for many months.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Seriously? Did you know that Charles Spurgeon suffered from severe depression? Do you think he was lying about it? Faking?

Depression is a result of oppression, not mental illness.

 

[annsni]

Depression is a result of oppression, not mental illness.

It can be both. It's obvious you have never dealt with mental illness before. I never believed in it either until we had a very mentally ill 16 year old live with us. I can attest to the fact that it is real. It was not demon possession either. It was mental illness due to severe abuse and exposure to drugs and alcohol in the womb. Her CT scan of her brain was amazing.

 

[freeatlast]

I never believed in Mental Illness. And my belief has been strengthened since I watched The Marketing of Madness video.

I am going to watch the video to see what it says. At this point I do believe that most so called mental illness is because of sin not being dealt with.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I never believed in Mental Illness. And my belief has been strengthened since I watched The Marketing of Madness video.

In the 29 years that I have taught school, I have had two bi-polar middle school students. I currently have one of them now. Bi-polar (manic-depression) is reality whether you choose to acknowedge it or not. So is schizophrenia. I've seen it in one adult. Depression is real. When the hormones change, traumatic events occure, or we experience physical ailments, it can indeed affect the thinking patterns and the mind.

Do you believe in cancer? Heart disease? Diabetes? Our bodies, from our heads to our feet, are in a state of deterioration from the moment that we are born. And ... our DNA and genetic make-up since the fall of Adam and Eve are compounded with mutations and flaws.

People get sick. In the body and in the mind. Sometimes they are born this way - like my current bi-polar student. His mother was a drug addict and alcoholic. Sometimes the environment contributes to our sicknesses.

Just like physical ailments, mental ailments can be treated with or without medications. Therapies help, counseling can help, lifestyle changes can help, spiritual growth can help, and prayer can help.

But to throw the baby out with the bathwater and claim that mental illnesses do not exist is deny what can be seen every day.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

It's obvious you have never dealt with mental illness before. .

You are correct, I have never dealt with "mental illness". And I dare say I never shall... considering many psychiatrists admit there is no such thing as mental illness.

 

[annsni]

You are correct, I have never dealt with "mental illness". And I dare say I never shall... considering many psychiatrists admit there is no such thing as mental illness.

Psychiatrists who should have their licenses taken away.