Or...maybe there were no demons as Annsni said.
Is it so impossible that mental illness can have an organic cause?
I should also ask where the Biblical reference is that shows that mental issues are only/primarily caused by sin.
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Mental illness and the Baptist Chuch
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Or...maybe there were no demons as Annsni said.
Is it so impossible that mental illness can have an organic cause?
I should also ask where the Biblical reference is that shows that mental issues are only/primarily caused by sin.
Fred and FAL can't accept your statement.
It doesn't fit their distorted view of what reality must certainly appear to actually be if all were exactly tuned with their way of thinking.
Supposing they consider epilepsy, tourette, attention deficit with or without hyperactivity, and other such conditions as demonic influence at least and demonic possession at the greatest, they would vote to bind them to a stake, condemn them to the flames of earth and hell.
Because there is actual Scriptural proof these are all manifestations of demonic activity, sin, and generally not being "right with God."
freeatlast
New Member
YEA Right! I am understanding you more and more all the time and it ain't good. I just am amazed at how deceived you are. There is no biblical evidence that anyone can cast out a demon today. In fact there is not a single suggestion that demons are to be handled that way. We are told to flee from the devil not try and cast him out.
The only evidence of casting out demons was during the ministry of the Lord to prove that Jesus was the Christ and the disciples were from God to start the church and those times were rare in the very early church. After the book of acts which is a transition book there is no such thing mantioned. Certainly if this was for the church it would have been in at leat one of the letters. It sounds like you people have cast out more demons then the Lord and the early apostles together!
Me thinks you be listening to Benny Hinn too much.
freeatlast
New Member
She needed saved, not a séance
freeatlast
New Member
Yea Right! You need to turn off TBN :laugh::laugh::laugh:
FAL,
I think you should be a bit careful about your condemnation. You might violate a work of the Holy Spirit in your zeal to condemn and that would bring certain rebuke.
There is no Scripture to support your view in this post.
The absence of mention in the letters of the is not proof of your view.
If you recall the earthly ministry of the Lord, not all were apostles that cast out demons.
freeatlast
New Member
Hint - she was/is. I was there.
Well good then why are you trying to cast out demons? Demons cannot be in the saved.
freeatlast
New Member
Well absence to me means it is not for us as we are not to add to scripture as some are suggesting. If demon casting was a need then we would have been told about it, but we are not. We are told to go and tell, not go and cast out demons.
The work of the Sprit is through the preaching of the word not through a séance.
FAL- You should take this to heart.
freeatlast
New Member
[SIZE=+0]I am taking it too heart. I take this very seriously. There is no such ministry or suggestion that this is the business of the church. It only took place before the cross and right after to prove a transition into the church age.
I am not saying it could never happen. I am disputing the idea that this is somehow a regular or even more then an extremely rare occurrence. By rare I mean maybe once in a lifetime and even that once not in most peoples lives.
People who tell me they have seen this several times are simply not creditable and cannot even back it up either with scripture or in reality. What is almost always happening is the person with the so called demon is faking and the people casting this fake demon out are convinced they have done their job when the person stops their wild actions.
I would absolutely love to see the videos of those casting out times Ann has spoken about.
Here is a video. Watch this nonsence.
http://www.doomsdaytube.com/exorcism-possession-haunting.php
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/11/real-exorcism-of-demons-scares-you-to-pieces-399744
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You speak of demonic causes here. For clarity and the record, do you discount organic (or physiologic) causes for mental illness; or do you still hold to the notion that the majority if the cases are sin-based?
freeatlast
New Member
I certainly accept that a person can be born retarded or be in an accident and have real medical issues keeping them from functioning as a normal human being. So I am not sure if you are including that as mental illness or not, but if so I am not speaking about those things.
I am talking about a person being classified as have a mental illness and they are violent at times or do certain sinful acts because of it. I categorically reject that such is the case. The truth is we are all tempted in different ways and they just need to deal with their sin and put their faith in Christ to overcome their sinful habits. We are to be overcomers and no one becomes an overcomer with a pill. Confess and forsake, not take a pill.
We are to call for the elders to pray over us not seek out a quack to give us a drug.
So to answer you they are all sin based.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
I have yet to read in my medical books of a surgical procedure in which a Neurologist cuts open a person's skull, makes an incision in the brain, and finds that person's mind.
I have plenty of pictures of that which is in the human brain as well. None are of the mind.
Which proves that the mind is not a physical, tangible object that one can see or feel. It is immaterial.
Being immaterial, it is incapable of acquiring a material disease.
I have plenty of pictures of that which is in the human brain as well. None are of the mind.
Which proves that the mind is not a physical, tangible object that one can see or feel. It is immaterial.
Being immaterial, it is incapable of acquiring a material disease.
freeatlast
New Member
Amy that is a very good question, thank you. I would guess that we all have suffered depression at some point in our lives. The answer is to deal with what is causing the depression, not turn to drugs legal or other wise.
Some get depressed over death, divorce, losing money, someone has hurt them, they feel they lack an ability, they are not pretty, too fat, too slim, cannot forgive themselves, and on and on. All that stems from sin. If you look into scripture there is a biblical way to deal with everything I mentioned and more and not a single thing is mentioned about seeking out a Doc and taking drugs.
Now with that let me say this. I understand that some people refuse to believe and use the biblical way to overcome and they may very well need to be suppressed with drugs so as not to harm themselves or another, but the drugs never cure them, they only suppress and they are not the biblical way to deal with it.
I do not speak of the mentally deficient or of accident victims. I speak of those who deal with depression, schizophrenia, et al. Do you believe that these are caused by sin and discount the possibility that there are also organic causes for these problems?
On a more personal note, do you stand by your accusation that I've forsaken the Bible for my own religion?
In reference to demons Jesus clearly spoke when He said, "But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting." (Matthew 17:21 NAS77)
What do you call the manifestation of voices, auditory and visual hallucinations when that kind goes out with olanzapine, Seroquel, Risperdal or other psychotropic medications?
I watched a young man: 150+ IQ, born-again, blood-bought, well disciplined disciple of Jesus Christ melt into a catatonic state in a matter of days after completing his first college semester (with a 4.0). He was a diligent student of the Word, mature in his faith and wise beyond his years. Without warning he began to see things that were not there, hear voices that encouraged self-harm and a myriad of things that defy comprehension. 15 years later his illness has progressed to the point that he is institutionalized for the foreseeable future.
Unconfessed or unrepented sin in his life? After 15 years of prayer, fasting and counsel you would think those things would have been rooted out. I find it so difficult comprehend Christian folk so adverse to science, biological and medical facts concerning mental illness. More disturbing is the assertion that our sin can be so deep that it outreaches the Cross. Do you really think so little of Calvary?
I have stayed up through the night countless times with this young man searching the Word, praying and fasting together. He has prayed in earnest that this thorn in the flesh be removed. The answer to his prayer is the thorn driven deeper and the ravages more profound.
Draw your own conclusions. If you'd like to pray for this young man his name is Joshua. He calls me Dad.
What do you call the manifestation of voices, auditory and visual hallucinations when that kind goes out with olanzapine, Seroquel, Risperdal or other psychotropic medications?
I watched a young man: 150+ IQ, born-again, blood-bought, well disciplined disciple of Jesus Christ melt into a catatonic state in a matter of days after completing his first college semester (with a 4.0). He was a diligent student of the Word, mature in his faith and wise beyond his years. Without warning he began to see things that were not there, hear voices that encouraged self-harm and a myriad of things that defy comprehension. 15 years later his illness has progressed to the point that he is institutionalized for the foreseeable future.
Unconfessed or unrepented sin in his life? After 15 years of prayer, fasting and counsel you would think those things would have been rooted out. I find it so difficult comprehend Christian folk so adverse to science, biological and medical facts concerning mental illness. More disturbing is the assertion that our sin can be so deep that it outreaches the Cross. Do you really think so little of Calvary?
I have stayed up through the night countless times with this young man searching the Word, praying and fasting together. He has prayed in earnest that this thorn in the flesh be removed. The answer to his prayer is the thorn driven deeper and the ravages more profound.
Draw your own conclusions. If you'd like to pray for this young man his name is Joshua. He calls me Dad.
When my husband left me, I fell into a deep depression and literally could not stop crying. The tears fell all day and only stopped when I was asleep. I would be in the grocery or where ever and tears would just stream down my face. If someone asked me how I was, I would literally start sobbing. I could do nothing to stop it. I was incapable of coping. It wasn't my sin that caused this. It was my husband's (even though you think it was mine, as you have told me). I had no choice but to take medication. One must be able to function. The medication does not "fix" my problems or even get rid of the depression, but I don't cry all the time and I am able to function and work.
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