If you want to rant to me, then do it in private messages.
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- Thread starter Moriah
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If you want to rant to me, then do it in private messages.
You most certainly did and I proved it. You are lying.
No, I will do it in public because your post was public. You are judging me and I proved it. You need to own up to it. It's in black and white and you cannot deny it without being a liar or a fool.
Amy, even a slave can disobey his master. A slave can run away from his master.
Folks do not understand what is meant by being a slave to sin. It does not mean you are compelled to sin every moment, it means you are under the law, you are bound by the law, and you are bound by the sentence of disobeying the law, which is death. As long as you are under the law you are a slave to sin in this sense.
The moment you trust in Christ you die with him and are no longer bound or a slave to the law. You do not belong to sin anymore. It is as if your husband is dead and now you are free to remarry. You are now released from the law and under grace. Now you are a slave or bound to righteousness.
This is why Jesus said he that commits sin is a servant of sin. The moment a person sins, they become bound by sin, under the penalty or sentence of sin which is death.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
The scriptures do not teach that we are compelled to sin. We can yield ourselves to commit sin, or we can yield ourselves to do righteousness.
If you yield yourself to commit sin, you become the servant to sin. You are now under it's bondage, and it's payment which is death. The bondage is death.
But the scriptures do not teach you must sin and have no control over your actions.
2 Chr 30:8 Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.
This command would be nonsensical if a man is utterly compelled by his nature to sin as Calvinism falsely teaches.
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You are confusing the law with indwelling sin. There is nothing wrong with the law as it is good, holy and righteous. The problem is not in the law. Slavery to a good, holy and righteous law is not wrong. The problem is slavery to indwelling sin (Rom. 7:14-25) not the law. The law's condemnation is consequential to the real slavery problem to sin.
Right and wrong! Right you are no longer under the law's condemnation but that Law is now written upon a new heart within you (2 Cor. 3:3-6; Rom. 8:4) so that you "delight in the law of God after the inward man" (Rom. 7:21).
You do no belong to sin any more but that does not mean you cannot willing SERVE sin and that does not mean that sin has been removed from your person and has no more influence over you so that you do not struggle with sin any more. The Scriptures teach clearly we are in a war with sin within us (2 Cor. 10:5) so that we battle to bring "every thought" into submission to Christ and that the weapons of our warfare are not "carnal" as the carnal aspect of our nature is incapable of winning over indwelling sin (Rom. 7:18) even though we are willing to resist sin, our will is without power to overcome indwelling sin. That is why we must "walk in the Spirit." That is why God must work in "both to will and to do of His good pleasure"
He is speaking of the person who habitually makes sin his practice (present tense) rather than the saved man who makes resisting sin his habitual practice (Rom. 7:18). The man described in Romans 7:14-25 habitually resists sin but always fails in his resistance when that resistance is performed apart from dependence upon the power of the Indwelling Spirit. The Indwelling Spirit is God's provision in the child of God to win over indwelling sin.
Note the contrast - "obedience UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS or "sin UNTO DEATH." He is describing the IMMEDIATE consequences of our actions. The term "death" means "separation." When a child of God chooses to sin, there is IMMEDIATE separation in FELLOWSHIP with God as sin IMMEDIATLEY breaks that fellowship. The term "death" also includes the IMMEDIATE consequences of unconfessed sin (conscience problems, loss of joy, loss of assurance, chastening; circumstantial negative consequences). Death is a factor in the life of every Christian as we struggle with the infuence of sin we PRESENTLY taste/experience both hell (James 3:14-16) and heaven (James 3:17) in direct response to how we respond to sin and righteousness.
The Scriptures do teach that our "flesh" or our "members" or "this body of death" is under the law of sin, compulsion of sin (Rom. 7:14-25) and that is precisely why we must resist indwelling sin not in the power of our own self (Rom. 7:18) which always is overcome by indwelling sin but in the power of the indwelling Spirit of God (Rom. 8:9-13).
The lost man "always resists" the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51) and is willingly enslaved to sin (Rom. 8:7-8).
However, the saved man does not have to yeild to sin but can yeild to righteousness IF ye yeilds first to the indwelling Spirit of God or else he always will be overcome by the power of indwelling sin (Rom. 7:14-25) because in regard to his flesh, this body of death, the members, he is still "carnal" sold under sin (Rom. 7:14,18). Hence, he must operate not according to his "carnal" nature as the true believers in Corinth did (1 Cor. 3:1-3) but according to his "spiritual" nature under the leadership of the indwelling Spirit of God.
It is a false conclusion based upon false reasoning to assume that a child of God cannot be without personal ability to serve God but still responsible! This is precisely what Jesus meant when he said "without me ye CAN DO NOTHING" and yet they were held responsible for their obedience to God. This is what it means to be commanded to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" and yet only possible if "God worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." This is what it means in Romans 7:14-25 to be totally unable to personal overcome the power of indwelling sin and yet be responsible to do so because every child of God has also the indwelling presence and power of the Holy Spirit that they can "yeild" to by faith (Rom. 6; 8:9-13).
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The bible states that the Holy Spirit comes to all believers and indwells/seals them, and that happens at the exact time they place faith in Christ and are saved by grace of God!
ONLY thing needed to do is for a sinner to receive jesus by faith!
And ONLY those saved by God will be able to then Obey God and resist the devil etc, as while yet sinners have no power nor inclination to really do either!
bible extremely clear that ALL who sin, and that would be ALL under the reign/domenion of Sin...
fallen sinful natures serve themselves, their very natures are to oppose God and attempts to rein in the flesh by keeping the law!
I do not agree with all of Winman’s beliefs on other topics, but as for what he said here about sin, he is not as wrong as you are trying to make him out to be.
If a person resists the devil, the devil will flee from them. That is the word of God. If a person obeys God’s Word, I believe that sin does not have the desire it once had. It might take some time, but there is a time, not like how you teach it though. I do want to say that a person must always be on guard.
James is teaching God’s word, how to recognize the wrong and stop doing it. I do not understand how you can say James is just explaining a response to how we respond to sin and righteousness. It is not normal for Christians to sin.
No, the scriptures do not teach that that is the life of a saved person.
If you hate what is evil, then how does sin have so much power over you, as you are saying here that it does after a person is saved? If one obeys God’s commands, then they will hate what is evil, until they hate what is evil.
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What is the sinner having faith in Jesus for what? Do you see now, that there is more to it than saying I have faith in Jesus? What you say is tainted by the false teachings of total depravity. Total depravity is not only how Calvinists teach, but also as other denominations teach. Calvinism says no one can even believe unless they are saved first, and the other is that one can believe but cannot have true repentance until after being saved. Both beliefs are not from the Bible. Even demons know that there is One God.
Even an evil person can stay out of jail. You have been led astray by the influence of Calvinism. You keep forgetting that the gospel is the message that saves, that it is powerful, and it is the mystery revealed. It is how we get faith.
We do not without want get the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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Sinners cannot chose in and by themselves to come to Chriost, much less to make a faith decision to accept him!
Cals hold that God gives His electfaith to believem Arms that He grants us all common grace enough to believe...
WHICH do you hold to?
If you resist the devil IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT the devil will flee from you but if YOU resist the devil he will trample all over you, eat you up and spit you out. Christians do not always walk in the Spirit as 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 proves. Christians do not always behave "spiritually" as 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 proves.
1 ¶ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Look at 1 Corinthians 1:2 and see who he is talking to:
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Jesus commanded his disciples to "WATCH and PRAYER" not just at some times but all the time. If you are not in a daily battle with sin it is because you have already been taken captive and simpy don't know it.
Sin is always at war "in your members" against you or so says James and Peter:
Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
There is no such thing as a cease fire in this life. The battle rages daily and if you don't think you need to both WATCH and PRAY every single day then you are either lost or taken captive as a child of God already.
Did you admit that children of God can do wrong and need to "stop doing it"?
Those James addressed had all kinds of sin problems just read the laundry list beginning in chapter one all the way to chapter five.
1. There were double minded among them - ch. 1
2. There were rich taking advantage of poorer brethren - ch. 2
3. There were those who couldn't control their tongue and were fighting with each other - chapter 3
4. There were those bickering and fighting among them - ch. 4
5. There were those sick because of unconfessed sin - ch. 5
You are wrong for the following immediate contextual reasons:
1. The flesh/body/members of the save man is still "carnal" - Rom. 7:14,18 and thus subject to dying and death.
2. The Unregenerate man does not "delight" in the law of God but is "not subject to the law of God and NEITHER INDEED CAN BE" - Rom.7:21; 8:7
3. The Unregenerate mind does not serve God - Rom. 7:25 but is at "enmity" with God - Rom. 8:7
4. Romans 7:14-25 is PRESENT TENSE whereas Romans 7:7-13 is past tense
5. Christ has not yet delivered any living Christian from "this body of death" and won't until death or resurrection/rapture - Rom. 7:24 - the only present deliverance is through the power of the indwelling Spirit.
6. To will to do "good" is not present within the unregenerated man - Rom. 7:18 because Jesus said "there is none good but one and that is God" and Paul said, there is NONE righteous NO, NOT ONE and there is NONE good, NO, NOT ONE - Rom. 3:10-11.
7. The immediate context or chapter seven is a further exposition of Romans 6 and the redeemed man in order to prove that he was not justified by law - Romans 7:1-13 or sanctified as a saved man by law - Rom. 7:14-25 but rather he was both justified by faith in Christ (Rom. 8:1-3) and sanctified as a child of God by the power of the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:4,9-13).
If you have no "war" waging within you then you are either lost or deceived because that was the experience of every child of God in the Scriptures except one - the Son of God.
I hold to the Truth. You go against the Truth. The Truth says FAITH comes from HEARING. You say no, a person cannot just hear and believe. The Truth says it is the message that saves. You say no, the message does not save, and that God saves then the message has meaning. The Truth says the message is powerful. You say no, it is only powerful after Jesus saves someone.
You go against what God says.
GE:
The perfect Arminian 'explanation' of 'under grace free will'!
I do not say you have not received grace; but I do maintain you do not understand it, and, that you 'explain' it, hopelessly wrong.
Take this for example,
"The moment you trust in Christ you die with him and are no longer bound or a slave to the law. You do not belong to sin anymore. It is as if your husband is dead and now you are free to remarry. You are now released from the law and under grace. Now you are a slave or bound to righteousness."
Any other part of your post will do for the same reason.
First, you make man the First Mover, "The moment _you_ trust in Christ _you_ die with him".
But it is Christ who through "the Spirit of Christ" is the First Mover and "Author of faith" and trust;
"It is CHRIST WHO DIED" --- not you or I! If you or I are CHOSEN: OF GOD, it is written, "You are crucified IN AND WITH _Christ_"— Christ the Crucified— into HIS, death; and "You are CO-RAISED TOGETHER WITH _Christ_”— in Christ from HIS, death and grave.
Where you make man the active Subject of the death and resurrection required for his salvation, the Scriptures have God and Christ and the Holy Spirit the Active Subject of man's every PASSIVE undergoing of the course of grace.
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A person can resist the devil as God tells them. Many people cannot even stop doubting that God and Jesus are real unless they resist the devil and refuse to listen to his lies.
You pretend that 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 is a patronizing speech by Apostle Paul. Apostle Paul is rebuking the Corinthians. He is telling them they are still worldly. If being worldly were normal for Christians, then Paul would not say they are “still” worldly.
That is such an illogical statement, so much so that it is almost funny.
Are you kidding? James is explaining to them how to stop doing some things, so that they will not be an enemy of God!
A person can be done with sin in their body, for that is what the Word of God says! I just do not believe someone who speaks as you do has done all what God says to do. You are empathetic to sin and empathetic to living with it. You sure do not believe a life can be without it.
What kind of question is that? The Bible tells us how to stop doing wrong, and to work it out with trembling and fear. What are you fearing, Biblicist? Answer that please.
You read those scriptures, yet you still want us all to believe that it is normal for Christians to sin?
You are reading what Paul says about an unsaved person. Just because we still die physically in this life, it does not mean it is just because we keep sinning. Not having to die a physical death is for after we are raised from the dead.
Romans 7:21 is about someone without Jesus’ teachings. Romans 8:7 is about THE MIND THAT IS SET ON THE FLESH. The teachings of Jesus are about Spiritual things. Not everyone has their mind that is set on the flesh.
Therefore, what you are saying is that the New Testament tells us about doing right, but knowing we cannot, therefore it is not different from the Old Testament Law!
You are wrong, for Paul says, “For I have the desire to do what is good…”
NOWHERE in the Bible does it say we do not have to give up sin. The Bible tells us we do not have to be circumcised, we do not have to do various ceremonial washings, we do not have to observe special days, we do not have to give sin offerings. Those things do not justify us, but faith in Christ does.
You are wrong. Again, you sound like a person who has not obeyed God when He says hate what is evil. You sound like someone who has not one experience with giving up any sin for the Lord. You sound like a person who does not see any difference between a believer and an unbeliever in this world.
What you say here is against the Word of God. God says to die to the sins of the world. This is Spiritual speech! If you do not literally feel as though you are dead to the flesh, then no wonder you keep sinning.
the power can do NOTHING to save you in and by itself, for its faith mixed with hearing that provides us salvation!
Just listening and not believing/receiving keeps us lost in sin!
Faith COMES from hearing. Why do you not accept the Word of God?
So why doesn't everyone who hears believe?
Some do not believe right away. Some do not understand. Some do not like what they hear because they do not want to let go of their sinful lifestyle. Some believe for a while…
So really, faith does not come JUST by hearing, but by hearing, liking what they hear, and giving up sin.
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