What does this statement mean?

[DHK]

GE:

How many weirdo 'Christians' does one get .....

One plus point about that is one realises to answer every one is impossible .... Thank God!

Take things in context GE. Here is the quote:

This is a false theology. "God can save them at any point...." That is not the promise of God. The promise of God is that those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ God will save at that moment. You don't believe in the promises of God. You believe in a works-based salvation.

God can save any person at any time. The verse says: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." It does not infer that one must believe and then sometime after that, after he has done some good works, then he will be saved. That is what Moriah was suggesting. He is saved the moment he puts his faith in Christ, not sometime after that.

Next time don't take a partial quote and make it look like heresy. That is slander.

 

[Moriah]

God can save any person at any time. The verse says: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." It does not infer that one must believe and then sometime after that, after he has done some good works, then he will be saved. That is what Moriah was suggesting. He is saved the moment he puts his faith in Christ, not sometime after that.

God decides when He gives someone His Spirit. If all anyone had to do is believe, then you would have received the Holy Spirit as a Catholic child. However, you say you did not.

Next time don't take a partial quote and make it look like heresy. That is slander.

How ridiculous it is to hear you speak of slander.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Moriah: “I will make you into a great nation
And I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
And you will be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And whoever curses you I will curse;
And all peoples on earth
Will be blessed through you.”

HP: Did God say "I have already,"? No. God said "I WILL."

Your illustration here shows indeed how faith is made perfect by obedience, and without the obedience, faith is but dead being alone. To try and separate faith from the will formulating intents of obedience as some try in vain to do, is going against everything Scripture and reason have to say or testify about faith.

 

[The Biblicist]

God decides when He gives someone His Spirit. If all anyone had to do is believe, then you would have received the Holy Spirit as a Catholic child. However, you say you did not.

How ridiculous it is to hear you speak of slander.

Romans 8:9 denies that one can be a child of God, saved, without the indwelling Spirit of God and yet Acts 16:31 uses the Aorist tense "saved" as a completed action when a person believes on Christ proving that the indwelling Spirit of God is received at the same time one believes in Christ. Paul is the author of both texts and both are about salvation.

Evidence of the Jailer's salvation was his obedience to baptism and caring for Paul and Silas - more proof He was indwelt with the Spirit of God at the point of faith in Christ.

 

[savedbymercy]

Romans 8:9 denies that one can be a child of God, saved, without the indwelling Spirit of God and yet Acts 16:31 uses the Aorist tense "saved" as a completed action when a person believes on Christ proving that the indwelling Spirit of God is received at the same time one believes in Christ. Paul is the author of both texts and both are about salvation.

Evidence of the Jailer's salvation was his obedience to baptism and caring for Paul and Silas - more proof He was indwelt with the Spirit of God at the point of faith in Christ.

Thats a Twist of scripture. Everyone Christ gave Himself for was one of His, for he gave Himself for the Church did He not ?

If those Christ died for did not previously sustain a legal relationship to Him, then He could not legally have a right to redeem them from Law and Justice !

So Romans 8:9 Just informs us that no mone has a Right to say they belong to Christ except by His Spirit, pretty much what 1 Cor 12 says

Therefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Even the Elect, before they receive the Spirit of Adoption in New Birth, do not have a right to claiming to be a Child of God

But they do receive the Spirit of Adoption BECAUSE they are Sons Gal 4:6

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

He sent the Spirit into their hearts not to make them Sons, but because they were already secretly his Sons.

This just destroys your false teaching !

Now, the Jailor believed because he was saved already, regenerated. One must have a good heart to receive the word of the kingdom and bear fruit Matt 13:23.

Now Before the Jailor could believe, he first had to hear the word of the Lord, vs 32

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Faith or believing cometh by hearing, that is spiritual hearing..

 

[The Biblicist]

Thats a Twist of scripture. Everyone Christ gave Himself for was one of His, for he gave Himself for the Church did He not ?

If those Christ died for did not previously sustain a legal relationship to Him, then He could not legally have a right to redeem them from Law and Justice !

So Romans 8:9 Just informs us that no mone has a Right to say they belong to Christ except by His Spirit, pretty much what 1 Cor 12 says

Therefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Even the Elect, before they receive the Spirit of Adoption in New Birth, do not have a right to claiming to be a Child of God

But they do receive the Spirit of Adoption BECAUSE they are Sons Gal 4:6

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

He sent the Spirit into their hearts not to make them Sons, but because they were already secretly his Sons.

This just destroys your false teaching !

Now, the Jailor believed because he was saved already, regenerated. One must have a good heart to receive the word of the kingdom and bear fruit Matt 13:23.

Now Before the Jailor could believe, he first had to hear the word of the Lord, vs 32

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Faith or believing cometh by hearing, that is spiritual hearing..

Again, note the RJP method of hermeneutics. If ignorance were bliss you would hold the title of most blissful. Look at the text for a change!

Rom. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Paul gives only two options. All men are either:

1. "in the flesh" and "cannot please God OR
2. "in the Spirit" meaning they are indwelt by the Spirit

Those who are not indwelt by the Spirit of God are "NONE OF HIS"

So simple, so clear, but those who are being led by demons have no capability to see the simple and clear (1 Tim. 4:1-2) because their conscience has been seared by their false demonic doctrines.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do[present tense continuous action] to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe [Aorist tense completed action] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The question by the jailor represents the theology of Moriah - "what must I KEEP ON DOING" to be saved - present incomplete action

The answer of Paul and Silas represents the Baptist position - just "believe" (completed action) and thou shalt be saved.

Thus "saved" is not something you keep on doing or faith PLUS obedience to God's commandments. Saved means you are a child of God and thus the indwelling Spirit is present or else you are not "saved."

 

[The Biblicist]

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

He sent the Spirit into their hearts not to make them Sons, but because they were already secretly his Sons.

This just destroys your false teaching !

Now, the Jailor believed because he was saved already, regenerated. One must have a good heart to receive the word of the kingdom and bear fruit Matt 13:23.

Now Before the Jailor could believe, he first had to hear the word of the Lord, vs 32

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Faith or believing cometh by hearing, that is spiritual hearing..

The term "Sons" represents the Greek term "huios" not "tekna." The term "huios" refers to LEGAL SONSHIP by law or the result of JUSTIFICATION not the result of regeneration. In regard to regeneration the word "huios" is NEVER used in Scripture. It is the term "tekna" that is ALWAYS used in regard to regeneration.

You don't know the difference between Sonship legally as an Heir due to justification and family relationship "tekna" due to birth any more than you can distinguish between eternal Purpose and fulfillment.

 

[Moriah]

Moriah: “I will make you into a great nation
And I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
And you will be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And whoever curses you I will curse;
And all peoples on earth
Will be blessed through you.”

HP: Did God say "I have already,"? No. God said "I WILL."

Your illustration here shows indeed how faith is made perfect by obedience, and without the obedience, faith is but dead being alone. To try and separate faith from the will formulating intents of obedience as some try in vain to do, is going against everything Scripture and reason have to say or testify about faith.

What some here are preaching, that we all only must believe and do nothing else, and their saying that obeying is a work against our being saved, which means we are not saved, is obviously their doing the devil’s work.

Who else but the devil would cause such confusion of scriptures, and who else would want the teaching of disobedience to God? Who else but the devil would have so called Christians calling true children of God perverted minds, as we have been called here for teaching others to obey?

 

[Moriah]

Romans 8:9 denies that one can be a child of God, saved, without the indwelling Spirit of God and yet Acts 16:31 uses the Aorist tense "saved" as a completed action when a person believes on Christ proving that the indwelling Spirit of God is received at the same time one believes in Christ. Paul is the author of both texts and both are about salvation.

You argument against me is null. It is a straw man tactic.

Evidence of the Jailer's salvation was his obedience to baptism and caring for Paul and Silas - more proof He was indwelt with the Spirit of God at the point of faith in Christ.

A Pharisee invited Jesus to dinner! Does that prove the Pharisee was saved? NO.

 

[DHK]

You argument against me is null. It is a straw man tactic.

You really are at a loss here Moriah.
Biblicist simply quoted two passages of Scripture and showed how they were related. Instead of trying to refute them you cast aspersions on him. Doesn't look like will win any debate that way; it only makes you look foolish.

A Pharisee invited Jesus to dinner! Does that prove the Pharisee was saved? NO.

The Pharisees knew the law. They rejected Christ.
This was a Gentile jailer who had just trusted Christ. Your argument doesn't even make sense.

BTW, which Pharisee invited Jesus to dinner?
Zaccheus was a hated tax-collector and publican, just as if he were an enemy of the Jews or at least one working for the enemy.
The only other incident is in Luke, in the house of Simon, who was a Pharisee.

Luke 7:36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
--Apparently one didn't need an invitation to come to this feast. What does the next verse say:

Luke 7:37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
--The town prostitute was here. Read the full account and the application that Jesus gives. Jesus did not receive an invitation to a dinner exclusively for Pharisees.

What does prove that the jailer was saved was that he moment he "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, he was saved," as the promise was given to him.

 

[Yeshua1]

those teaching the true Gospel here know what is right and of God, those who deny we need to place faith in jesus, or add have to be obedient to god, behave well enough in order to get saved add to the Gospel, and that teaching is condemned by scriptures!

 

[savedbymercy]

those teaching the true Gospel here know what is right and of God, those who deny we need to place faith in jesus, or add have to be obedient to god, behave well enough in order to get saved add to the Gospel, and that teaching is condemned by scriptures!

The Elect are made Righteous by the Obedience of ONE, not Two ! Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Those who Teach that the obedience of the sinner is required to be Justified before God is a Liar and contradicts Pauls teaching right here !

 

[The Biblicist]

The Elect are made Righteous by the Obedience of ONE, not Two ! Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Those who Teach that the obedience of the sinner is required to be Justified before God is a Liar and contradicts Pauls teaching right here !

What amazing ignorance of God's Word!!! The obedience of Christ is the BASIS for imputation and thus justification by faith. His obedience is IMPUTED by faith and thus it is THROUGH faith we are justified based upon His obedience rather than ours.

What in the world do you think "IMPUTATION" is all about? According to your false doctrine of justification there is no need for IMPUTATION but the elect were actually and literally in union with Christ when he rose from the dead and by nature of that LITERAL union were justified without the gospel, without faith, without regeneration, without sanctification, without glorification without anything. Imputation is by faith not by spiritual union and it takes no genius to see that truth repeated over and over again in Romans 4. Imputation is the essence justification as we are justified when HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS is imputed to us by faith and we are Justified because OUR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is not imputed to us but was imputed to him on the cross. Imputation of our sin occurred on the cross but imputation of his obedience occurs through faith in the gospel.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

The obedience of Christ is the BASIS for imputation and thus justification by faith

Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Their obedience of Faith is not needed ! That would be by the Obedience of Two !

 

[Moriah]

You really are at a loss here Moriah.

No, DHK, I am not because you say so. Lol

Biblicist simply quoted two passages of Scripture and showed how they were related. Instead of trying to refute them you cast aspersions on him. Doesn't look like will win any debate that way; it only makes you look foolish.

You are guilty of the very things you falsely accuse me.

The Pharisees knew the law. They rejected Christ.

So what do you think you have proved by saying that?

This was a Gentile jailer who had just trusted Christ. Your argument doesn't even make sense.

It is yours and Biblicist’s argument that makes no sense…saying that inviting Paul and Silas to his house is proof he was saved at the moment and not at his home after having the word spoke to him, the truth spoken to him as Philip had done with the eunuch.

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Their obedience of Faith is not needed ! That would be by the Obedience of Two !

Their obedience of faith is ACCEPTING that His obedience is totally sufficient WITHOUT THEIR WORKS and "obedience of faith" in regard to the gospel is the work of God in us and is of grace and by grace of which Christ is both the author and the finisher. Wake up and smell the roses!

 

[savedbymercy]

by the obedience of ONE not TWO !

Their obedience of faith is ACCEPTING that His obedience is totally sufficient WITHOUT THEIR WORKS and "obedience of faith" in regard to the gospel is the work of God in us and is of grace and by grace of which Christ is both the author and the finisher. Wake up and smell the roses!

Those Christ died for are made Righteous before God, by the Obedience of ONE Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[DHK]

No, DHK, I am not because you say so. Lol

You are guilty of the very things you falsely accuse me.

You, again, are guilty of doing the same thing. Instead of answering a person with any Scriptural refutation you resort to personal attack. That is evidence that you have lost any form of debate that there ever was. It is a sign that you have nothing more intelligent on the subject to say.

So what do you think you have proved by saying that?

Study the Word Moriah.
Jesus did not normally receive exclusive invitations from the Pharisees. The Pharisees hated Jesus; they were jealous of him. They rejected him, and in the end took him and crucified him. At every opportunity they tried to kill him. What I have proved--that the Pharisees did not invite Jesus into their houses because their motive was to kill him. They were jealous of his works.

It is yours and Biblicist’s argument that makes no sense…saying that inviting Paul and Silas to his house is proof he was saved at the moment and not at his home after having the word spoke to him, the truth spoken to him as Philip had done with the eunuch.

Paul said to the Jailor "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
You would have us to believe that Paul was lying, and that the promise is not true.

What about the other promises in Scripture.
On the Day of Pentecost, Peter preached the Word.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
--They that received his word (were saved), and then baptized, and then added to the church. That has always been the order. This was done all in one day.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
--At the very time that the Eunuch believed that Jesus was the Son of God he was saved. Philip would not have baptized an unsaved person. One is always saved when they believe; that is the same time that they receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The moment a person trusts Christ he becomes a part of the family of God to which he is born into. His body is no longer his, but rather belongs to God. The Holy Spirit now resides within. You were bought with a price. You can no longer do as you please. The Lord owns you. You are his servant to obey. Obedience is not required for salvation, but rather after salvation, for now you have become not only his child but his servant.

 

[The Biblicist]

Those Christ died for are made Righteous before God, by the Obedience of ONE Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Ok, I can play the game of stupidity and just quote texts too!

Romans 4: 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Rom. 5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Ok, I can play the game of stupidity and just quote texts too!

if you wanna call the Gospel of Grace stupidity, fine, but I warn you now Matt 12:36

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Now back to the Truth Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.