Featured Did God Command Murder?

True... it is the shedding of "innocent blood" but as far as bing ritualistically sacrificed and burned....Isaac was "innocent". no?

 

So was Jesus, "innocent." Did God commit suicide or did God murder himself.

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

God through this command which he wasn't going to allow to proceed to fulfillment was preaching the gospel to Abraham.

 

1. It's not my definition.
2. You are avoiding my question

Actually, I'm the one arguing for the nature of God, you are the one arguing for the rule of law or 'ethics.' (i.e. it is never the right thing to deceive someone else). So, you are the one putting ethics, or morality above the nature of God and his direct command. If God appeared to you and told you to lie to protect His servants you would say "no, God, because that is sinful." If he told you to sacrifice your son, you would also say no because you appear to put laws and your interpretation of them above the person and nature of God himself. That may not be your intent but that is the nature of you position nevertheless.

 

I still say it was the means by which God choose to teach Abraham about the kingdom of God and the resurrection from the dead as the gateway thereof through the one seed of promise.

God had no intent on Abraham slaying Issac.

 

I agree, but now we have the issue of deception which many would constitute as lying. I've gone on the record in saying not all dishonesty is sinful, the extent to which it is sinful stems from the intent of the heart.

 

John,

Let's cut to the chase.

If God appeared to you in person and told you to sacrifice your son to him by tying him to a log taking a knife and stabbing him until he stopped breathing what would you say to Him?

And don't say God wouldn't do that because that is what He did to Abraham, plus we are SUPPOSING this actually does happen, so just answer the question.

Next, suppose Muslim extremists takes over the USA and have decided to kill some Christian missionary friends of yours. They come to your house to hide from them, so you hide them in your basement. They come to your door and ask you, "Is anyone else in the house?" "Are you hiding anyone hear?" "Has anyone come to your house to hide from us?"

How would you answer? And don't say, "that wouldn't happen," it is an ethical supposition for the sake of the argument, so just answer it.

 

Oh come now, we are having a discussion about ethical dilemmas of which I'm supposing on you. Please don't dodge the question using such clear diversionary tactics. If it helps suppose it is some Random guy...oh, I know, we can call him "Abe" and his son, "Issa." Now, answer the question...

So God's laws and expectations for man change depending on the time and circumstance. Thanks, you just made my point. Debate is over.

:wavey:

 

It was a polite request that over time has gained some candor in hopes of an actual response.

I never said "thought." There was no equivocation in the supposition. If God himself appeared to me and you convincingly, as He did Abraham, and requested us to sacrifice our children, you would put the law (as you understand it) above God's request, right or wrong?

I can accept that position. Murder could be understood as that which is evil, but that is my point. You called the 'deception' of Rahab a lie and thus sinful, and I disagreed for the same reasons you are not willing to call Abraham's intent murderous.

When I ask you a question you accuse me of getting personal and avoid answering it then roll you eyes at me for giving you orders, what options have you left?

:godisgood:

 

wasn't the point here though that Abraham was showing off his great faith, in that he was willingly to obey God if called upon, as he knew God would raise his son back to life if need be, as he was child of the promise?

so since God knew what Abraham would before even requesting it off him, was that asking for murder really?

 

So, it is ok to kill someone if you know they will be raise back to life? Does that mean it would be okay to lie if you know God is going to accomplish good from it (i.e. saving the Israelite spies)?

 

We may not understand some thing and why did these things have to happen.

People have did some horrible things in the name of Jesus that have misunderstood the teaching and intent of God in the old days.

These words will stand in judgement of them before our Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5 :
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[Lev. 19:18] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

 

Will Jesus do nothing to those who did horrible things in His name?

Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

Your reading tone into my words. I say 'just answer the question,' and apparently you hear, " JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION JERK!!! "

To prove to you that was not my intent let's suppose you lived during the time of Abraham and God came to you and asked you to kill your son. Would you do it? What if you lived at the time of Rahab and you were faced with the same dilemma? Would you have deceived the soldiers or not?

I warned you not to do this for the case of the supposition. We are not supposing demonic activity, we are supposing an actual real encounter with God, like the one Abraham had. Now, I've even moved the supposition back in time so you can't blame it on the time we live in, as if that makes any difference with a God whose character doesn't change.

No, I'm fine referring to it as a lie, but I can understand someone's unwillingness to do so because the word itself connotes 'evil' or 'wrongdoing.' You clearly believed what Rahab did (regardless of what you call it) was wrong/evil/sin and I did not (and neither did God).