By Who's Righteousness?

[DHK]

Believing is having faith. Once they believe they are not always saved right then. They could be, but not always. If a person only had to believe, then most people would have the Holy Spirit, even though they do not obey Jesus at all. God who knows the heart gives us the Holy Spirit when He accepts us.
That is the Word of God.

OK. The Bible simply says: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
In context, the jailer had heard from Paul and Silas the Word of God.
He believed, and was saved. He was saved at that very moment.
The Bible teaches that from the very moment we are saved we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. That is what happened at the Day of Pentecost, and what happens to every believer from that day onward.

So what do you mean when you say: "Once they believe they are not always saved right then."
--That is not what my Bible says. It says "Call upon the name of the Lord and thou shalt be saved." Once you call (have faith) you are saved--that very instant. Why do you say it is postponed?

What do you mean when you say: "If a person only had to believe"?
Do you believe salvation is by works? What else do they have to do?
How much do they have to do before they are saved?
How much do they have to do before they receive the Holy Spirit?
The Bible teaches that they have only to believe in Christ and his sacrifice then they are saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Why do you teach differently?

 

[The Biblicist]

Believing is having faith. Once they believe they are not always saved right then. They could be, but not always. If a person only had to believe, then most people would have the Holy Spirit, even though they do not obey Jesus at all. God who knows the heart gives us the Holy Spirit when He accepts us.
That is the Word of God.

So, you are saying that one who is having true biblical faith in Jesus Christ may or may not be in possession of eternal life (saved)? Hence, both Jesus and John are wrong when they provide only TWO options (beleveith or beleiveth not) and claim believers are in possession of eternal life:

Jn. 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jn. 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You insist upon a possible THIRD option where a true believer in Christ is without eternal life! Scripture please to support this third option?

Pleeeeease, do not provide any scripture where you have to INFER such a third option but scriptures which explicitly state there is a third option or a believer in Christ without eternal life.

 

[Moriah]

OK. The Bible simply says: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

The Bible does not simply say that. The Bible says believe in your heart and confess with your mouth…to call on the name of the Lord.

In context, the jailer had heard from Paul and Silas the Word of God.
He believed, and was saved. He was saved at that very moment.

The word of God was spoken to the jailer and his whole household. Do you not think that in the message that saves it tells a person they are a sinner, and then the condition of the heart is shown if the person admits to being a sinner and is sorry for their sins that they want to give them up? Of course,the message that saves speaks of our sins, and a person who does not want to give up sins does not want to be saved.

The Bible teaches that from the very moment we are saved we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. That is what happened at the Day of Pentecost, and what happens to every believer from that day onward.

The people at the day of Pentecost were listening to the Apostles speak the word of God. Again, the message that saves explains the truth to the listener.

So what do you mean when you say: "Once they believe they are not always saved right then."
--That is not what my Bible says. It says "Call upon the name of the Lord and thou shalt be saved." Once you call (have faith) you are saved--that very instant. Why do you say it is postponed?

If all people had to do was hear a little something about Jesus and then believe, then most people would have been saved the first time they ever heard anything about Jesus. There has to be admittance to being a sinner. There has to be a heart that wants more than anything to have reconciliation to God. Not everyone understands the first time, or after many times of hearing about Jesus.

What do you mean when you say: "If a person only had to believe"?

As I have been trying to explain…how much does a person hear and understand when they hear about Jesus…and are they even desiring to give up their sins.

Do you believe salvation is by works?

The works people no longer have to do to have a relationship with God are circumcision, various ceremonial washings---external regulations applying until the time of the new order. The new order being that we do not have a relationship with God by doing those things…those things that anyone can do, even if there heart is not sorry for sins. Nowhere are we told that we no longer have to stop a sin.

What else do they have to do?

God who knows the heart gives His Holy Spirit to those He accepts. That is what the Bible says. Get Jesus’ teachings and obey them. Jesus will give the Holy Spirit to those who obey him; Jesus will reveal himself to that person.

How much do they have to do before they are saved?
How much do they have to do before they receive the Holy Spirit?

I would make up my mind and heart that I will never give up, ever. That is the heart attitude one must have, and mean it. Read the parable of the sower.

The Bible teaches that they have only to believe in Christ and his sacrifice then they are saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Why do you teach differently?

I do not teach differently. You believe that a person hears the word “Jesus” then gets the Holy Spirit. That is not the Word of God. The message that saves is a message that explains a lot, and the heart must want to be saved then...just not everyone hears the message that saves, many just hear parts of it, and many when they hear do not even want to admit that what they do is sin.
I just want to help people to know if they are saved, and if they are not sure that they are how they can be sure.

 

[Moriah]

So, you are saying that one who is having true biblical faith in Jesus Christ may or may not be in possession of eternal life (saved)? Hence, both Jesus and John are wrong when they provide only TWO options (beleveith or beleiveth not) and claim believers are in possession of eternal life:
Jn. 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Jn. 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Do you not see what Jesus says? Jesus says, “He that heareth my word.” Do you think that Jesus said just one word? We must hear the message; we must believe that we are sinners who want to give up their sins. Do you think that a person just hears the name “Jesus” then is given to them the Holy Spirit to make them believe? No, that is not what the Word of God says.

You insist upon a possible THIRD option where a true believer in Christ is without eternal life! Scripture please to support this third option?
Pleeeeease, do not provide any scripture where you have to INFER such a third option but scriptures which explicitly state there is a third option or a believer in Christ without eternal life.

You are the one with the unbiblical option. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we hear something about Jesus, then are given the Holy Spirit to those who do not even believe or want to give up sins. Nowhere in the Bible does it say people can hear anything about Jesus, then, though not believing or wanting, are then given the Holy Spirit to make them believe. NOWHERE does the Bible say that, in fact, that goes against what the Bible tells us.

 

[Yeshua1]

So what I hear you saying (paraphrased in my words) is this:
First they hear the word, receive faith from God while being regenerated.
Then they have faith to believe. Once they believe they are saved at which time they are given the Holy Spirit and are saved. Then they realize they are one of the elect.

Moriah, you are a Calvinist! I never knew.

Actually, it appears that he is teaching to us here by his "revelation" that the elect of God are actually saved by Him at birth, they are born reconciled to God, bypassed Adam sin, and as the elect can freely obey and believe God, and after already being saved/justified then get the Holy Spirit!

Not really calvinism, at least NOT the version I hold to!

 

[Moriah]

Actually, it appears that he is teaching to us here by his "revelation" that the elect of God are actually saved by Him at birth, they are born reconciled to God, bypassed Adam sin, and as the elect can freely obey and believe God, and after already being saved/justified then get the Holy Spirit!

Not really calvinism, at least NOT the version I hold to!

That is not even funny that you speak falseness about me here. Among other things, it is confusing to readers.

 

[Yeshua1]

That is not even funny that you speak falseness about me here. Among other things, it is confusing to readers.

let us reason together!
You state that we are saved/justified/reconciled by God thru Cross of Christ, done before we are even born, by Will of God, right?

that we are already saved by Cross of Christ before faith in Christ occurs, right?

That once we place faith in jesus and obey God, God gives us the Holy spirit, right?

that basically we do NOTHING to get and be saved by God, right?

 

[The Biblicist]

Do you not see what Jesus says? Jesus says, “He that heareth my word.” Do you think that Jesus said just one word? We must hear the message; we must believe that we are sinners who want to give up their sins. Do you think that a person just hears the name “Jesus” then is given to them the Holy Spirit to make them believe? No, that is not what the Word of God says.

I never denied you must hear the gospel before you can believe in it! Any fool knows you must hear it before you can beleive it, but that is not what I challenged you about. You need to go back and read what I said instead of perverting what I said and you have perverted what I said. I challenged your statement in regard to a person who has already heard the gospel and believed it and it is that person, the one believing, that you said "may or may not" be saved.

I challenged your statement that one who DOES BELIEVE in the Gospel may not be saved. Obviously, they must first hear it before they can believe it and you said that one beleiving in the gospel may or may not be saved. That is what both Jesus and John repudiate!

Show a little bit of honesty with what others say instead of perverting what they say. Anyone who reads my post can easily say you have perverted and twisted to say something I never said. You have sinned again and you will follow that sin by another sin and I will tell you what it is before you commit that sin - You will deny you perverted what I said and so double down in your sins.

 

[Moriah]

I never denied you must hear the gospel before you can believe in it!

STOP! Do not be misleading, for you do NOT believe that one can believe in God until he receives the Spirit of God. You are not going to get away with that misleading, confusing mess that is against God’s Word. Faith comes from hearing, not from God giving you His Spirit to make you believe.

Any fool knows you must hear it before you can beleive it, but that is not what I challenged you about. You need to go back and read what I said instead of perverting what I said and you have perverted what I said.

Do not start with your ‘pervert’ word obsession, a favorite word of yours you like to throw at others when you debate.

I challenged your statement in regard to a person who has already heard the gospel and believed it and it is that person, the one believing, that you said "may or may not" be saved. I challenged your statement that one who DOES BELIEVE in the Gospel may not be saved. Obviously, they must first hear it before they can believe it and you said that one beleiving in the gospel may or may not be saved. That is what both Jesus and John repudiate!

A person receives the Holy Spirit when God accepts them. That is the Word of God. We receive the Holy Spirit AFTER we obey. That is the Word of God! That is what Jesus says. A person could believe in Jesus but not understand that they are a sinner. Not everyone hears the message that saves. Look how many different beliefs are on this board, I rarely hear someone speak the true message.

Show a little bit of honesty with what others say instead of perverting what they say. Anyone who reads my post can easily say you have perverted and twisted to say something I never said. You have sinned again and you will follow that sin by another sin and I will tell you what it is before you commit that sin - You will deny you perverted what I said and so double down in your sins.

You always revert to the pervert name. You do not know what you are talking about; you do not speak what Jesus says.
I will no longer discuss with you while you are stuck on the word pervert.

 

[Yeshua1]

STOP! Do not be misleading, for you do NOT believe that one can believe in God until he receives the Spirit of God. You are not going to get away with that misleading, confusing mess that is against God’s Word. Faith comes from hearing, not from God giving you His Spirit to make you believe.

Do not start with your ‘pervert’ word obsession, a favorite word of yours you like to throw at others when you debate.

A person receives the Holy Spirit when God accepts them. That is the Word of God. We receive the Holy Spirit AFTER we obey. That is the Word of God! That is what Jesus says. A person could believe in Jesus but not understand that they are a sinner. Not everyone hears the message that saves. Look how many different beliefs are on this board, I rarely hear someone speak the true message.

You always revert to the pervert name. You do not know what you are talking about; you do not speak what Jesus says.
I will no longer discuss with you while you are stuck on the word pervert.

We hold that one is made justified before God by faith in jesus, by believing in who he is and what he has done...

Do you?

 

[DHK]

The Bible does not simply say that. The Bible says believe in your heart and confess with your mouth…to call on the name of the Lord.

The Bible does simply say that. Here it is:

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved
--The one requirement for salvation was to believe or have faith. He believed, and was saved. There is no evidence that his salvation took place in his house. That is where his family was saved, and where he was baptized. Salvation is by faith alone.

The word of God was spoken to the jailer and his whole household. Do you not think that in the message that saves it tells a person they are a sinner, and then the condition of the heart is shown if the person admits to being a sinner and is sorry for their sins that they want to give them up? Of course,the message that saves speaks of our sins, and a person who does not want to give up sins does not want to be saved.

Never, in the entire NT, does it say a person must be sorry for their sins in order to be saved. This is a false teaching of yours.
Never in the entire NT, does it say a person must give up his sins in order to be saved. Again, this is a false teaching of yours.
There in Acts 16:31 the jailer was saved. He believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and was saved. The text does not tell how much of the gospel he heard before that. Remember that Paul and Silas were singing praises before them. No doubt they were witnessing to others as well. They were not "secret Christians." They boldly testified of their faith wherever they went. One cannot assume that the jailer never heard the gospel.
You also neglect verse 29, the reaction of the jailer:

Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
--Here is a sign of great conviction of sin. He was trembling. He knew who to go to. He knew who had the answers. He went into the prison to bring them out so that he might hear the gospel truth and be saved. He bowed down before them because he knew that all these events were brought about because of the power of the God of Paul and Silas whom they were worshiping. This was evidence of a great conviction of sin, from which he wanted immediate release. He was saved then!

The people at the day of Pentecost were listening to the Apostles speak the word of God. Again, the message that saves explains the truth to the listener.

--And what do you think Paul spoke--fairy tales??
Why do you think the jailer got saved? He had heard the word of God, came under conviction, and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ.

If all people had to do was hear a little something about Jesus and then believe, then most people would have been saved the first time they ever heard anything about Jesus. There has to be admittance to being a sinner. There has to be a heart that wants more than anything to have reconciliation to God. Not everyone understands the first time, or after many times of hearing about Jesus.

If they don't get saved that is because of the rebelliousness of their own heart. If they don't get saved it is because of people like you who just admitted you will only "give them a little something about Jesus," instead of the Gospel. Shame on you!!

Here is my testimony. I was in the RCC for 20 years. I never heard the gospel as a Catholic. One day on the campus of a university, a friend asked me if he could share something from the Bible with me. I allowed him to. It was the first time I had ever heard the gospel. That night I bowed my head in prayer and trusted Christ as my Savior.
I wasn't sorry for my sins. I trusted Christ as my Savior.
I didn't repent of all my sins; I trusted Christ as my Savior. I put my faith and trust in him to forgive me of a sinful life and grant me eternal life. He did. That was based on the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ or the gospel. I have never turned back since. That day I became indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Moriah, you are teaching a false gospel.

As I have been trying to explain…how much does a person hear and understand when they hear about Jesus…and are they even desiring to give up their sins.

They Bible doesn't teach they have to give up their sins. I didn't. It is a process in the Christian walk after salvation called sanctification. I was saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Study Eph.2:8,9 and Rom.5:1.

The works people no longer have to do to have a relationship with God are circumcision, various ceremonial washings---external regulations applying until the time of the new order. The new order being that we do not have a relationship with God by doing those things…those things that anyone can do, even if there heart is not sorry for sins. Nowhere are we told that we no longer have to stop a sin.

Utter nonsense!! Whether I was circumcised or not had nothing to do with my salvation! I would like to see how you would explain that to a new believer. In fact how would you explain that to any of us.
First, if a person is already circumcised how would he give it up. How would he reverse the process that was done to him at birth? What are you suggesting here?
Second, if a person isn't circumcised, are you suggesting that you tell a new believer that knows nothing about Judaism: "Now, regarding your salvation in Christ just make sure you don't go out and get yourself circumcised or you may lose your salvation."
What on earth are you saying here. Please clarify. Do you ask if he is circumcised? How would you know in the first place? Is it your business? What happens if it is a female that is led to the Lord? Just asking how circumcision works into salvation??

Then you said "ceremonial washings." What ceremonial washings." As a Catholic I had made the sign of the cross. Is that what you meant. But that is not a ceremonial washing. What ceremonial washing are saying a new believer in Christ should give up in this day and age?

What are these "external regulations" that you are referring to. We aren't Jews.

God who knows the heart gives His Holy Spirit to those He accepts. That is what the Bible says. Get Jesus’ teachings and obey them. Jesus will give the Holy Spirit to those who obey him; Jesus will reveal himself to that person.

NO! God gives the Holy Spirit to all who believe on him and become saved! That is a definite teaching of the Scriptures. You are teaching a heretical works-based salvation.

I would make up my mind and heart that I will never give up, ever. That is the heart attitude one must have, and mean it. Read the parable of the sower.

The parable of the sower does not teach one must never give up in order to be saved. The parable of the sower teaches that some seed fell upon good ground, and it grew to produce fruit--some 20, 40, 60 and some 100 fold. None of it was lost. It is a picture of eternal security.

I do not teach differently. You believe that a person hears the word “Jesus” then gets the Holy Spirit.

If they hear the gospel, and on that basis trust Christ as their Savior, they are saved and the Holy Spirit comes and dwells in them. That is what the Scripture teaches. (Acts 16:29-31; Rom.10:13; 1Cor. 6:19,20).
That is not the Word of God. The message that saves is a message that explains a lot, and the heart must want to be saved then...just not everyone hears the message that saves,[/quote]
Many reject the gospel. Don't put words in my mouth. Misrepresentation is as good as a lie. Why do you lie.

many just hear parts of it, and many when they hear do not even want to admit that what they do is sin.

I never said that doesn't happen.

I just want to help people to know if they are saved, and if they are not sure that they are how they can be sure.

So do that, but don't preach a false gospel.

 

[Moriah]

The Bible does simply say that. Here it is:

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved
--The one requirement for salvation was to believe or have faith. He believed, and was saved. There is no evidence that his salvation took place in his house. That is where his family was saved, and where he was baptized. Salvation is by faith alone.

Notice that you left out the rest of the sentence because you knew it would make your beliefs senseless. This is the whole sentence, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved---you and your household.” I guess his household was saved too from a distance, even before hearing the word? LOL

Never, in the entire NT, does it say a person must be sorry for their sins in order to be saved. This is a false teaching of yours.

It is not my teaching, it is Jesus’ teaching. Jesus says to repent or perish. Do you want to say Jesus is false? Repenting is to be sorry and to desire to turn from sin. Do you really think that Jesus was merely saying for people to tell us their sin for the heck of it? Lol

Never in the entire NT, does it say a person must give up his sins in order to be saved. Again, this is a false teaching of yours.

What do you think the message that saves talks about?

There in Acts 16:31 the jailer was saved. He believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and was saved. The text does not tell how much of the gospel he heard before that. Remember that Paul and Silas were singing praises before them. No doubt they were witnessing to others as well. They were not "secret Christians." They boldly testified of their faith wherever they went. One cannot assume that the jailer never heard the gospel.

Now do you understand?

You also neglect verse 29, the reaction of the jailer:

I neglect nothing.

Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
--Here is a sign of great conviction of sin. He was trembling. He knew who to go to. He knew who had the answers. He went into the prison to bring them out so that he might hear the gospel truth and be saved. He bowed down before them because he knew that all these events were brought about because of the power of the God of Paul and Silas whom they were worshiping.

Now do you understand? Did you not used to say that a person could not do those things until after they are saved?

This was evidence of a great conviction of sin, from which he wanted immediate release. He was saved then!

Hold on do not go overboard. You are adding to the scriptures when you say such things. God’s word is perfect. We do not need someone to elaborate in any way that is not written.

--And what do you think Paul spoke--fairy tales??
Why do you think the jailer got saved? He had heard the word of God, came under conviction, and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am the one who has been telling you that faith comes from hearing. I am the one that has been telling you that hearing the word is about hearing that we are sinners needing to be saved from them. You are the one who says a person can hear but not be sorry and yet still be saved. You speak ridiculousness when you say a person can hear the gospel message, then say they believe, but still be saved not wanting to give up any sin.

If they don't get saved that is because of the rebelliousness of their own heart. If they don't get saved it is because of people like you who just admitted you will only "give them a little something about Jesus," instead of the Gospel. Shame on you!!

The shame is on your for making up things.
You say they do not get saved because they are rebellious, but you are the one who claims a person can be rebellious and not be sorry for their sins and still be saved! Lol

Here is my testimony. I was in the RCC for 20 years. I never heard the gospel as a Catholic. One day on the campus of a university, a friend asked me if he could share something from the Bible with me. I allowed him to. It was the first time I had ever heard the gospel. That night I bowed my head in prayer and trusted Christ as my Savior.
I wasn't sorry for my sins. I trusted Christ as my Savior.
I didn't repent of all my sins; I trusted Christ as my Savior. I put my faith and trust in him to forgive me of a sinful life and grant me eternal life.

How can you be so dishonest and say you were not sorry for your sins? Yet you say here you bowed your head and asked him to forgive you of a sinful life! A person who is not really sorry for their sins do NOT ASK FOR FORGIVENESS.

He did. That was based on the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ or the gospel. I have never turned back since. That day I became indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Moriah, you are teaching a false gospel.

No, you are the one teaching a false gospel. You not only teach a false gospel, you are keeping others from the Truth. Telling people they do not have to be sorry for their sins and that repent is basically a meaningless word.

They Bible doesn't teach they have to give up their sins. I didn't. It is a process in the Christian walk after salvation called sanctification. I was saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Study Eph.2:8,9 and Rom.5:1.

Why is it you do not have much understanding still? Jesus reveals himself to those who obey.

Utter nonsense!! Whether I was circumcised or not had nothing to do with my salvation! I would like to see how you would explain that to a new believer. In fact how would you explain that to any of us.

Do you not know that people HAD to be circumcised JUST TO WORSHIP GOD? Do you not know that people HAD to give sin offerings just to worship God?

First, if a person is already circumcised how would he give it up. How would he reverse the process that was done to him at birth? What are you suggesting here?

Humble yourself more then maybe understanding would come to you. Circumcision is no longer required just to worship God. So why in the world would someone need to be uncircumcised?

Second, if a person isn't circumcised, are you suggesting that you tell a new believer that knows nothing about Judaism: "Now, regarding your salvation in Christ just make sure you don't go out and get yourself circumcised or you may lose your salvation."

A person needs to be explained why Jesus is the Lamb of God. It is the message that saves! It is the message of the cross.

What on earth are you saying here. Please clarify. Do you ask if he is circumcised? How would you know in the first place? Is it your business? What happens if it is a female that is led to the Lord? Just asking how circumcision works into salvation??

It is hard for you to go against the truth. You are doing a lousy job of it.

Then you said "ceremonial washings." What ceremonial washings." As a Catholic I had made the sign of the cross. Is that what you meant. But that is not a ceremonial washing. What ceremonial washing are saying a new believer in Christ should give up in this day and age?

The Jews had to do certain external things just to be able to worship God.

What are these "external regulations" that you are referring to. We aren't Jews.

People I explain these things too usually are enlightened and glad to know.

NO! God gives the Holy Spirit to all who believe on him and become saved! That is a definite teaching of the Scriptures. You are teaching a heretical works-based salvation.

You just screamed no to the words Jesus said.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

The parable of the sower does not teach one must never give up in order to be saved. The parable of the sower teaches that some seed fell upon good ground, and it grew to produce fruit--some 20, 40, 60 and some 100 fold. None of it was lost. It is a picture of eternal security.

The parable teaches that some believed, but then what happened to them? Read it and consider it carefully, with the measure you use it will be measured to you…

Many reject the gospel. Don't put words in my mouth. Misrepresentation is as good as a lie. Why do you lie.

That is creepy talk to accuse me of that, why do you always resort to creepy talk? Can you not help yourself?

 

[Yeshua1]

A person comes up to you and asks'"what must I do to become a Christian , and have eternal life?"

How would you answer him?

 

[DHK]

Notice that you left out the rest of the sentence because you knew it would make your beliefs senseless. This is the whole sentence, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved---you and your household.” I guess his household was saved too from a distance, even before hearing the word? LOL

Yes, his whole family was saved "at a distance," later. He was saved first, at that time. Why do you have a hard time believing the word: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." That is the promise given to the jailer. "And thy house" was to the jailer's household was to his house which the jailer invited him to later on, and there he preached the gospel to them also. The jailer had already heard the gospel, fell under great conviction of sin, and was saved. Why else would he want Paul to come to his house. Unsaved people don't invite evangelists or missionaries to their houses to preach the gospel to their loved ones! They would stand against such foolishness.

For the preaching of the cross is them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
--If he was not yet saved it was just foolish talk and he would have never invited Paul at all. But he was saved, and he knew that the gospel was the power of God unto salvation. That is why he invited Paul to his house--and that under very dangerous circumstances. His life was in danger doing so.

It is not my teaching, it is Jesus’ teaching. Jesus says to repent or perish. Do you want to say Jesus is false? Repenting is to be sorry and to desire to turn from sin. Do you really think that Jesus was merely saying for people to tell us their sin for the heck of it? Lol

No it isn't Jesus teaching; it is heresy.
The Bible doesn't say to be sorry for your sins in order to be saved.
Judas was sorry for his sins, and what happened to him? Don't you get that yet? IMO, Judas also knew that Jesus was the Messiah. He believed that. But it still didn't get him saved.
Repentance is not feeling sorry for your sins. You are wrong, and therefore much of the rest of your theology is wrong.
Jesus said to repent, but nowhere did he say to be sorry for your sins. That is what you say. You are wrong.

What do you think the message that saves talks about?

Read: John 5:25; 3:16; 3:36; Rom.10:9,10,13; Acts 10:43; 16:29-31; 1Cor.15:1-4; Eph.2:8,9; Rom.5:1; John 20:31; 1John 5:11-13.
--Those should be enough verses that tell you what salvation is all about. Not one of them talk about repentance. They give the gospel message. Salvation is through Christ and what Christ did on the cross for you. Only Christ can save. Salvation must be accepted by faith. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Repentance is a work. The NT puts no emphasis on repentance (except in the gospels before the cross), but rather on faith. It is called sola fide. It is faith in what Christ has done for us. If you do not have faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ, you cannot be saved.

Now do you understand?

I understand that your comprehension of the passage is wrong.

I neglect nothing.

Yes you did. I will repeat again, you neglected verse 29--never even referred to it.

Now do you understand? Did you not used to say that a person could not do those things until after they are saved?

I just explained the passage to you. I hope you now understand it. You sound confused. He was saved right there and then.

Hold on do not go overboard. You are adding to the scriptures when you say such things. God’s word is perfect. We do not need someone to elaborate in any way that is not written.

Read 1Cor.1:18; Rom.1:16. The gospel is foolishness to them that are unsaved. He was saved at the jail. If you don't agree then you are the one adding to the Scriptures not I. The "elaborating" you speak of is called "Biblical exposition." The Bible does not contradict itself. It must be in harmony in all its parts.

I am the one who has been telling you that faith comes from hearing. I am the one that has been telling you that hearing the word is about hearing that we are sinners needing to be saved from them. You are the one who says a person can hear but not be sorry and yet still be saved. You speak ridiculousness when you say a person can hear the gospel message, then say they believe, but still be saved not wanting to give up any sin.

Remember, misrepresentation of one's position is a lie.
It is not ridiculous to quote passage after passage where it says: "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." I gave you a number of passages to look up. You have your homework cut out for you.
Nowhere does it say that a person must be sorry for their sins. That is false teaching.
Nowhere have I said that a saved person would not be willing to give up their sins. That is a lie.

The shame is on your for making up things.
You say they do not get saved because they are rebellious, but you are the one who claims a person can be rebellious and not be sorry for their sins and still be saved! Lol

You preach a false gospel. Quote Scripture where it says a person is saved by being sorry for their sins. You can't can you. And use the exact words "sorry for their sins."
Yet we know people reject Christ and therefore are not saved. It says that over and over in the Scriptures. And you say it is false???

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
--In the light of these Scriptures are you calling Christ a liar?

How can you be so dishonest and say you were not sorry for your sins? Yet you say here you bowed your head and asked him to forgive you of a sinful life! A person who is not really sorry for their sins do NOT ASK FOR FORGIVENESS.

1. I never said I was sorry for my sins! Read carefully.
2. I asked forgiveness, but not for my sins!

No, you are the one teaching a false gospel. You not only teach a false gospel, you are keeping others from the Truth. Telling people they do not have to be sorry for their sins and that repent is basically a meaningless word.

Chapter and verse please! Where in the Bible does it say the unsaved must be "sorry for their sins"? Use the exact phrase "sorry for their sins." Otherwise you are teaching a false gospel. Salvation is by faith, faith in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why is it you do not have much understanding still? Jesus reveals himself to those who obey.

Salvation comes to them who put their trust in Christ. At that time they receive the Holy Spirit. Any hint of salvation coming through obedience is heresy.

Do you not know that people HAD to be circumcised JUST TO WORSHIP GOD? Do you not know that people HAD to give sin offerings just to worship God?

I didn't have to know that to get saved, nor did I know anything about it. Ridiculous.

Humble yourself more then maybe understanding would come to you. Circumcision is no longer required just to worship God. So why in the world would someone need to be uncircumcised?

He doesn't have to know anything about that in order to be saved. This is absolutely absurd!

A person needs to be explained why Jesus is the Lamb of God. It is the message that saves! It is the message of the cross.

Circumcision is not the way of the cross. as you have been suggesting.

It is hard for you to go against the truth. You are doing a lousy job of it.

There is no truth in circumcision when explaining the gospel. You have a false gospel.

The Jews had to do certain external things just to be able to worship God.

That has nothing with trusting Christ as one's Savior.

People I explain these things too usually are enlightened and glad to know.

They might be better off knowing that the area of a circle is: [FONT=&quot]πr2
[/FONT] Some secular knowledge that is truth is better than Bible knowledge that is false! You preach a false gospel.

You just screamed no to the words Jesus said.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

This is one of the great discourses to the disciples. It takes place right after Jesus' washes the feet of the disciples in chapter 13. He is speaking to saved individuals, his disciples. This is not about salvation; it is about discipleship.

The parable teaches that some believed, but then what happened to them? Read it and consider it carefully, with the measure you use it will be measured to you…

Apparently you don't know what it is talking about. I already explained it to you.

That is creepy talk to accuse me of that, why do you always resort to creepy talk? Can you not help yourself?

I rebuked you for lying. You misrepresented me. You said something that I didn't say. That is the same as a lie.
You don't like to take a rebuke and thus call it "creepy talk." That is the action of a child. Grow up!

 

[Amy.G]

That is creepy talk to accuse me of that, why do you always resort to creepy talk? Can you not help yourself?

First of all, you are a liar. I proved that yesterday. And second, why do you think it's "creepy talk"? You call people liars all the time.

 

[percho]

Love one another. Of course it you don't think one another is another I don't guess you have to Love them.

Wait a minute I don't think that's right; Nope you have got to love them to, maybe not as much though.

 

[Moriah]

Yes, his whole family was saved "at a distance," later.

You have a hard time admitting you are wrong. So, do you not think you are dishonest by saying at a distance later?

He was saved first, at that time.

You make up things that the Bible does not say.

Why do you have a hard time believing the word: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." That is the promise given to the jailer. "And thy house" was to the jailer's household was to his house which the jailer invited him to later on, and there he preached the gospel to them also. The jailer had already heard the gospel, fell under great conviction of sin, and was saved. Why else would he want Paul to come to his house. Unsaved people don't invite evangelists or missionaries to their houses to preach the gospel to their loved ones! They would stand against such foolishness. For the preaching of the cross is them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
--If he was not yet saved it was just foolish talk and he would have never invited Paul at all. But he was saved, and he knew that the gospel was the power of God unto salvation. That is why he invited Paul to his house--and that under very dangerous circumstances. His life was in danger doing so.

Do unsaved people ask how can I be saved? Lol You are not all the way out of Calvinism. I can hardly believe you said “Unsaved people don’t invite evangelists or missionaries to their houses to preach the gospel to their loved one.” Go read who invited Jesus to come to his house to eat dinner. Lol

No it isn't Jesus teaching; it is heresy.
The Bible doesn't say to be sorry for your sins in order to be saved.

Repent means to be sorry for your sins. I can hear you now…”But, but, Paul said repent does not mean I have to be sorry for my sins.” To your own destruction, as Peter says.

Jesus said to repent, but nowhere did he say to be sorry for your sins. That is what you say. You are wrong.

lol

--Those should be enough verses that tell you what salvation is all about. Not one of them talk about repentance. They give the gospel message. Salvation is through Christ and what Christ did on the cross for you. Only Christ can save. Salvation must be accepted by faith.

Are you not dishonest when you leave out the word “sinner” in the message that saves?

Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Repentance is a work.

Repentance might be a work---for you! Lol A work is to do the same thing over and over. Do you keep repenting the same thing over and over?
Repenting is not a work. A work is when those that wanted to worship God had to do the same thing over and over…they had to be ceremonially clean, they had to find an animal, they had to go to the priest, etc. etc. etc.

The NT puts no emphasis on repentance (except in the gospels before the cross), but rather on faith. It is called sola fide. It is faith in what Christ has done for us. If you do not have faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ, you cannot be saved.

John baptized people to prepare the way for the Lord.

Nowhere does it say that a person must be sorry for their sins. That is false teaching.

So they want Jesus to save them but they do not know from what? The only reason we are separated from God is because of sin.

You preach a false gospel. Quote Scripture where it says a person is saved by being sorry for their sins. You can't can you. And use the exact words "sorry for their sins."

There are many scriptures telling us we have to be sorry for our sins to be saved.

Yet we know people reject Christ and therefore are not saved. It says that over and over in the Scriptures. And you say it is false???

More nonsense questions from you.

1. I never said I was sorry for my sins! Read carefully.
2. I asked forgiveness, but not for my sins!

Why do you want forgiveness for sins you are not sorry for? I can hardly believe I am having this conversation. The only people who do not know that repent means to be sorry for sins are people who have been indoctrinated by a false religion.

Salvation comes to them who put their trust in Christ. At that time they receive the Holy Spirit. Any hint of salvation coming through obedience is heresy.

You just called the Word of God “heresy.”
John 14:23.

I didn't have to know that to get saved, nor did I know anything about it. Ridiculous.

You are the one who said someone told you the message the first time. I guess you did not know that Jesus had to die for you.

He doesn't have to know anything about that in order to be saved. This is absolutely absurd!

You just proved how absurd you are, for if “he doesn’t have to know anything about that in order to be saved,” then why you were not saved those 20 years as a Catholic?

Circumcision is not the way of the cross. as you have been suggesting.

You qualify for willfully saying something I did not say. I will stop coming to this group. You just cannot stop maligning the Way. There is no reason for me to stay.

This is one of the great discourses to the disciples. It takes place right after Jesus' washes the feet of the disciples in chapter 13. He is speaking to saved individuals, his disciples. This is not about salvation; it is about discipleship.

So, you say they were already saved and that makes a difference how? Jesus is telling them if they get his teachings and obey them, he will give them the Holy Spirit.

I rebuked you for lying. You misrepresented me. You said something that I didn't say. That is the same as a lie. You don't like to take a rebuke and thus call it "creepy talk." That is the action of a child. Grow up!

May the Lord rebuke you.

 

[Moriah]

First of all, you are a liar. I proved that yesterday. And second, why do you think it's "creepy talk"? You call people liars all the time.

I did not lie. Are you ignorant and unstable? Why else do you keep calling me a liar when I have not?
This is what I said: “You can will yourself to believe. You can resist the devil, as God says to do. You can stop doubting. Jesus says blessed are those who believe in me and have not seen me.”
For that, you accused me of saying unbelievers can resist the devil. That does not even make sense. What are you under control of when you say such things? Does it make sense that someone who does not even believe in God or the devil would resist?
Now stop coming on saying nothing but attacks on me.

 

[DHK]

You have a hard time admitting you are wrong. So, do you not think you are dishonest by saying at a distance later?

I am not wrong. I used the phrase "at a distance" because it is the exact phrase you used. I quoted you. Look back in the posts. The jailer got saved first, and then invited Paul to his house. It is as simple as that.

You make up things that the Bible does not say.

First of all, false accusations are lies and you make a lot of them.
Second, I weigh the evidence and make an intelligent decision based on the evidence.
Third, the Bible nowhere says that the jailer was saved in the place of his household, and the evidence that he was saved there is lacking.
Fourth, given the above evidence, YOU are the one that is making up things that the Bible doesn't say. So don't go around making unfounded accusations.

Do unsaved people ask how can I be saved? Lol You are not all the way out of Calvinism. I can hardly believe you said “Unsaved people don’t invite evangelists or missionaries to their houses to preach the gospel to their loved one.” Go read who invited Jesus to come to his house to eat dinner. Lol

Again, apples and oranges. Let's look at your claims in orderly fashion.
1. The gospel is foolishness to them that perish. 1Cor.1:18. I would rather believe the Bible than you.
2. Your example is Jesus. Jesus is not just a man; he is God.
3. Hundreds if not thousands of people followed Jesus wherever he went, many if not most desiring him to come into their houses. It would be an honor to have God, the Messiah, to come and eat with them. Would you not agree? Or you would never consider that a privilege?
4. Thousands followed him to see the miracles he did. They would have like to see a miracle demonstrated even in their own house if possible, but just the honor of having him would have been good enough for most.
5. Paul was not Christ. Paul was not God. Read the Book of Acts. Paul was beaten and left for dead. He was kicked out of the synagogues on a regular basis. He was abused, stoned, attacked, and all for the gospel's sake. He wasn't invited into people's houses like the Lord Jesus Christ was. He didn't have thousands following him. He was thrown out of the synagogues, whereas Jesus threw the Jews out of the Temple. Big difference isn't there.

Repent means to be sorry for your sins. I can hear you now…”But, but, Paul said repent does not mean I have to be sorry for my sins.” To your own destruction, as Peter says.

Peter never said: "be sorry for your sins." You have yet to show me one verse where it says that.
You keep on falsely saying that repent means being sorry for your sins. But it is a lie. You don't know what repentance is, and you show your ignorance by falsely posting it on this board.

Are you not dishonest when you leave out the word “sinner” in the message that saves?

Look! I simply quoted you Scripture, plenty of them, and many of them right from the words of Jesus. So your question should be worded this way:
Are you not calling Jesus dishonest because He left out the word "sinner" in the message that saves (John 3:16)?
You should be ashamed.

Repentance might be a work---for you! Lol A work is to do the same thing over and over. Do you keep repenting the same thing over and over?

I was saved by putting my faith in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. I didn't have to repent of all my sins to be saved. That is a false gospel.

Repenting is not a work. A work is when those that wanted to worship God had to do the same thing over and over…they had to be ceremonially clean, they had to find an animal, they had to go to the priest, etc. etc. etc.

Repenting is something you do. Anything you do is a work, like baptism. It is also a work. It is a "good work," a good work that is done after one becomes saved. Repentance is good. But salvation is in Christ and his work on the Cross. It must be accepted by faith. You can weep and feel sorry all you want, but that is not going to get you to heaven.

John baptized people to prepare the way for the Lord.

John had an OT ministry.

So they want Jesus to save them but they do not know from what? The only reason we are separated from God is because of sin.

If the only reason you are saved is because you think salvation is a fire-escape from hell, then I seriously doubt your salvation. Again, repentance is not feeling sorry for one's sins. When one is saved they are saved from the penalty of sin, and saved because of the great love of God.

There are many scriptures telling us we have to be sorry for our sins to be saved.

That is what you keep saying. But you can't quote even one.

More nonsense questions from you.

It wasn't a question. It was a fact and a refutation of the ridiculous things that you said. You actually said that people don't reject Christ. I quoted you John 3:18 and John 3:36 where Jesus himself said that people reject Christ. You now have the audacity to call it a "nonsensical question"?

Why do you want forgiveness for sins you are not sorry for? I can hardly believe I am having this conversation. The only people who do not know that repent means to be sorry for sins are people who have been indoctrinated by a false religion.

You either don't understand English or you are deliberately misrepresenting me and lying. Which one is it?
1. I never said I wanted forgiveness for sins at all. Learn to read!
2. Repent does not mean being sorry for your sins.
3. I am not the one here with the false religion. Watch out where you are going with this.

You just called the Word of God “heresy.”
John 14:23.

You avoid context. Jesus was talking to his disciples not the unsaved.

You are the one who said someone told you the message the first time. I guess you did not know that Jesus had to die for you.

You are being deceptive. The gospel was explained to me, not circumcision, as you claim must be explained along with the gospel. Paul cleared that up in Gal.1:8. Anyone who brings such a message is accursed! Circumcision has nothing to do with the gospel. Why are you insistent that it does??

You just proved how absurd you are, for if “he doesn’t have to know anything about that in order to be saved,” then why you were not saved those 20 years as a Catholic?

NO! Of course not!! Why would anyone have to know anything about circumcision in order to be saved?? What kind of false message do you preach??

You qualify for willfully saying something I did not say. I will stop coming to this group. You just cannot stop maligning the Way. There is no reason for me to stay.

I am simply responding to your posts. Go back and look at them. You kept on linking circumcision to the gospel. Why?

So, you say they were already saved and that makes a difference how? Jesus is telling them if they get his teachings and obey them, he will give them the Holy Spirit.

No he didn't. He prophetically said that he would send them the Comforter after he would be taken from them. The Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, a historical event that will never be repeated. From that time onward every one that comes to Christ is immediately indwelt with the Holy Christ the minute he trusts Christ as his Savior.

 

[Amy.G]

I did not lie. Are you ignorant and unstable? Why else do you keep calling me a liar when I have not?
This is what I said: “You can will yourself to believe. You can resist the devil, as God says to do. You can stop doubting. Jesus says blessed are those who believe in me and have not seen me.”
For that, you accused me of saying unbelievers can resist the devil. That does not even make sense. What are you under control of when you say such things? Does it make sense that someone who does not even believe in God or the devil would resist?
Now stop coming on saying nothing but attacks on me.

You rub my spirit the wrong way which means I had better not converse with you anymore. Something is wrong with you.