Did the Millinium start at Ascension of jesus?

[revmwc]

I would be interested in seeing the New Testament prophecies of the Messianic Kingdom.

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Of course Jesus spoke of His Kingdom and the Disciples sitting upon the thrones of judgement in:

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.


Who will they judge? Verse 28 is clear the twelve tribes of Israel. That hasn't happened and isn't happening today.

 

[Yeshua1]

Darby may have invented [Out of whole cloth, using an old saying!] the pre-trib rapture but he did not rediscover any truth.

The early church fathers were not pre-trib!

I agree with you on that point, but there were prominently pre mill, and some did see jesus establishing the kingdom for Isreal at that time!

 

[OldRegular]

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Of course Jesus spoke of His Kingdom and the Disciples sitting upon the thrones of judgement in:

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.


Who will they judge? Verse 28 is clear the twelve tribes of Israel. That hasn't happened and isn't happening today.

As that infamous dispensationalist says:you must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

I see no mention of an earthly Messianic kingdom! I see mention in verse 33 above of an eternal kingdom, not 1000 years.

Which throne is Jesus Christ sitting on: The throne of His Glory or the throne of David?

 

[revmwc]

As that infamous dispensationalist says:you must rightly divide the Word of Truth.

I see no mention of an earthly Messianic kingdom! I see mention in verse 33 above of an eternal kingdom, not 1000 years.

Which throne is Jesus Christ sitting on: The throne of His Glory or the throne of David?

Well let's see the Throne of His glory has yet to take place. Where is Christ today?

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places

Colosians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

and 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?


Seems Christ is never said to be sitting on His Throne of Glory or any other throne in Heaven but is by His ?Father until The Father makes His enemies His footstool.

Look at Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

and Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Everything says He is set or set down on the right hand of the Throne of God

Notice

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Now we see the Lamb on His Throne, this is after the Great White Throne Judgement after the renovation of the earth and the New Jerusalem has come down and is setting upon the new earth. Then we see the lamb on His Throne.


Of course Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

According to verse 9 this Kingdom is upon the earth, the camp of the Saints in the beloved city, verse 4 says they are living and reigning with Christ their camp in verse 9 again says it is up on the breadth of the earth in the beloved city. This takes place after they have ruled 1000 years. Scripture makes it clear.

 

[Yeshua1]

just wondering exactly when in the past 2000 years, IF Jesus is really ruling in heaven after His ascension...

When was war abolished/famine, satan bound, and the rule of God was over all the earth, no more false religions?

 

[OldRegular]

I suspect Jesus Christ is on the Throne of His Glory at the present. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ requests of the Father:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

So it would seem that since Scripture speaks of Him sitting at the right hand of God the Father He is likely sitting in Glory!

There is really nothing in Scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the Church. There is nothing in Scripture to support the doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ to establish an earthly Messianic kingdom and that He established the Church [which he hath purchased with his own blood, Acts 20:28] instead.

 

[Yeshua1]

I suspect Jesus Christ is on the Throne of His Glory at the present. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ requests of the Father:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

So it would seem that since Scripture speaks of Him sitting at the right hand of God the Father He is likely sitting in Glory!

There is really nothing in Scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the Church. There is nothing in Scripture to support the doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ to establish an earthly Messianic kingdom and that He established the Church [which he hath purchased with his own blood, Acts 20:28] instead.

Putting the question of a pre trib rapture aside, there is plenty to support and show that Jesus will be physically returning to this earth, and setting up literally His kingdom on this earth, and at that time there will be the Kingdom on earth as it now is in heaven! Where the Will of God is FULLY done!

 

[revmwc]

I suspect Jesus Christ is on the Throne of His Glory at the present. In John 17:5 Jesus Christ requests of the Father:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

So it would seem that since Scripture speaks of Him sitting at the right hand of God the Father He is likely sitting in Glory!

There is really nothing in Scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the Church. There is nothing in Scripture to support the doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ to establish an earthly Messianic kingdom and that He established the Church [which he hath purchased with his own blood, Acts 20:28] instead.

Scripture supports it, early church leaders believed it and taught it some just simply fail to believe it. This of course was predicted in scripture.

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Where is the promise of His coming in scripture of Course and O.T. and new say He will reign on David's thrine as the Messiah of Israel and all nations will worship Him.

 

[revmwc]

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Seems really clear Christ will come from Heaven to Earth, set up His Kingdom on Earth never does Revelation say and He judged them and returned to Heaven to set up His Kingdom, it says thrones were set up on earth and they ruled with Christ. When the Millinium (1000) is ended then satan is loosed and goes out to the four corners of the Earth, not of heaven and musters an army to encompas the camp of the Saints which is all on earth and the millenial Kingdom is set up after the Trib and the armies with Christ coming from heaven are clothed in fine linen clean and white just as the bride is to be adorned.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Seems as if the Bride is already in Heaven when Christ returns, seems like a pre-trib, pre-mil snatching away of the Bride prior to the second coming to set up His Kingdome with His Bride reigning with Him.

 

[Iconoclast]

just wondering exactly when in the past 2000 years, IF Jesus is really ruling in heaven after His ascension...

When was war abolished/famine, satan bound, and the rule of God was over all the earth, no more false religions?

just wondering what verses you are thinking about?

 

[OldRegular]

Putting the question of a pre trib rapture aside, there is plenty to support and show that Jesus will be physically returning to this earth, and setting up literally His kingdom on this earth, and at that time there will be the Kingdom on earth as it now is in heaven! Where the Will of God is FULLY done!

I believe

[1] in the visible return of Jesus Christ with power and great glory [Matthew 24:30]

[2] at which time there will be a general resurrection of all the dead [John 5:28, 29]

[3] followed by the Great White Throne judgment and [Revelation 20:11]

[4] death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. [Revelation 20:14]

[5] whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake of fire. [Revelation 20:15; 21:8]

[6] those whose names are written in the Book of Life chosen unto salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world will enjoy the presence of the Triune God eternally. Revelation 21:3, 7]

[7] the eternal reign of the Triune God in the New Heavens and New Earth with all those redeemed by Jesus Christ. [Revelation 21:1-6]

 

[OldRegular]

Scripture supports it, early church leaders believed it and taught it some just simply fail to believe it. This of course was predicted in scripture.

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Where is the promise of His coming in scripture of Course and O.T. and new say He will reign on David's thrine as the Messiah of Israel and all nations will worship Him.

The early Church fathers were apparently premillennial but they were not pre-trib. that is the invention of john Darby about 1830.

I repeat my earlier post.

There is really nothing in Scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the Church. There is nothing in Scripture to support the doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ to establish an earthly Messianic kingdom and that He established the Church [which he hath purchased with his own blood, Acts 20:28] instead.

 

[revmwc]

I believe

[1] in the visible return of Jesus Christ with power and great glory [Matthew 24:30]

[2] at which time there will be a general resurrection of all the dead [John 5:28, 29]

[3] followed by the Great White Throne judgment and [Revelation 20:11]

[4] death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. [Revelation 20:14]

[5] whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake of fire. [Revelation 20:15; 21:8]

[6] those whose names are written in the Book of Life chosen unto salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world will enjoy the presence of the Triune God eternally. Revelation 21:3, 7]

[7] the eternal reign of the Triune God in the New Heavens and New Earth with all those redeemed by Jesus Christ. [Revelation 21:1-6]

Where do you see the belivers of this age receiving their rewards as seen in:

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Paul told the Believers at Rome in

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Now the term judgement seat "Paristemi" to stand beside, "Bema" a step, pace, the space which a foot covers, a foot-breath
a raised place mounted by steps
a platform, tribune
of the official seat of a judge
of the judgment seat of Christ
Herod built a structure resembling a throne at Caesarea, from which he viewed the games and made speeches to the people

So Romans 14:10 we will stand stand beside the step of the judge, we believers.

While in Revelation 20:11 we have "Megas Leukos Thronos" Great White Throne and definitely


two different events just by the Greek Terms. So where do you see 1Corithians 3 and Romans 14 occuring?

 

[revmwc]

The early Church fathers were apparently premillennial but they were not pre-trib. that is the invention of john Darby about 1830.

I repeat my earlier post.

There is really nothing in Scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the Church. There is nothing in Scripture to support the doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ to establish an earthly Messianic kingdom and that He established the Church [which he hath purchased with his own blood, Acts 20:28] instead.

I will state yet again Christ promise that those who overcome, as a believer in Christ I am an overcomer, will not go thru the time of testing that is coming upon the earth. Christ made the Church a promise in Rev. 3:10 that He would keep us out of the season or a definite moment in time of affliction or trouble. Seems real clear that for those who overcome Christ would keep us from the time of trouble coming upon the earth. Rev. 3:10.

 

[OldRegular]

I will state yet again Christ promise that those who overcome, as a believer in Christ I am an overcomer, will not go thru the time of testing that is coming upon the earth. Christ made the Church a promise in Rev. 3:10 that He would keep us out of the season or a definite moment in time of affliction or trouble. Seems real clear that for those who overcome Christ would keep us from the time of trouble coming upon the earth. Rev. 3:10.

Jesus Christ also promised

John 16:33, KJV These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22, KJV Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 8:35, KJV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 12:12, KJV Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

2 Corinthians 1:4, KJV Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

Revelation 1:9, KJV I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 7:14, KJV And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

I realize you will say that the Church is gone in Revelation 7:14 but you are entitled to be wrong. that is simply another dispensational error. jesus christ tells us in John 5:28, 29 that there is one general resurrection of all the dead.

Furthermore, how do you justify applying Revelation 3:10 to the all Christians?

 

[OldRegular]

I see one Judgment seat of Jesus Christ, the great White Throne Judgment!

 

[Iconoclast]

1.Isaiah 24:23
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

2.Micah 4:7
And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.


Isaiah 11 shows an earthly reign with the Gentiles included.

In fact the lion laying down with the lamb and the lion eating straw as an OX shows that the Kingodom age earth will be a the anti-divuvian civilization was.


Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.


After the flood we see:

Gen. 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.


Man and beast did not begin to eat meat until after the flood, Isaiah 11 shows the earth going back to that with the description of the animals not feeding on flesh but upon straw. Appears as if Christ is reigning upon the earth in His Messianic Kiongdom by Isaiah 11.

Revmac....sorry i had missed this one, just found it now;
lets take a look....

Isaiah 11 shows an earthly reign with the Gentiles included.

[QUOTE6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.][/QUOTE]

In verse 10 it speaks of......AND IN THAT DAY.....
The Holy Spirit had paul write this for us in romans;15

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

paul quotes it both as the abrahamic covenant being fulfilled,and directly quotes from isa 11....here in romans 15....

Rev mac.....I think he quotes more than 14 verses in romans 9-15 and says they are happening now:thumbs:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

you.

20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

 

[mandym]

is that the time that he ruled over as messiah king?

What is a "millinium"?

 

[Iconoclast]

Originally Posted by revmwc
1.Isaiah 24:23
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

peter quotes from joel 2 in acts 2:16 ...and says about pentecost...this IS THAT.....

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

notice the same language in Joel 3:
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

 

[AresMan]

Originally Posted by revmwc
1.Isaiah 24:23
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

peter quotes from joel 2 in acts 2:16 ...and says about pentecost...this IS THAT.....

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

Exactly, and astronomy shows that a solar eclipse and a "blood moon" occurred on April 3, A.D. 33. The sun was darkened and the moon was turned to blood "before the great and terrible day of the Lord" (Pentecost). This was fulfilled, then "the day of the Lord" came with signs and wonders of His power.

Indeed "THIS IS THAT." The New Covenant was initiated "in His blood."

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I believe this was all initiated at Pentecost. "THIS IS THAT!" Jews from all around were gathered in Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover. At this time, even under Roman bondage, the Jews were "in the land." God then initiated the New Covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah which were combined at this time. God "poured out His spirit on all flesh" (starting with Israel, then Samaritans, then Gentiles). The New Covenant is different from the Old Covenant in that it is not ordinances on tablets of stone, but rather having "the law" written on our hearts and having the Spirit of God in us. Also, as a Baptist, I believe that Jeremiah 31:34 reflects the difference in the constituents of the New Covenant vs. the Old. In the Old Covenant members were initiated by physical birth and circumcision (mixed regenerates and unregenerates). In the New Covenant, members are initiate by spiritual birth and "circumcision of the heart" (only regenerates). In the New Covenant "all shall know Me from the least to the greatest" and because of the final sacrifice of Christ "I will forgive their iniquities and remember their sins no more."

Paul also quotes Joel 2:32 in Romans 10:13! According to Peter AND Paul, Joel 2 is fulfilled.

The New Covenant was initiated at Pentecost literally with Israel. It then expanded to Gentiles according to Old Testament prophecy, which Paul quotes vociferously in Romans 9-11. To claim that all this is a "parenthesis" that is "not the subject of prophecy" is breathtaking, indeed!

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Paul and his apostleship to the Gentiles was an extension and fulfillment of New Covenant prophecy. The "mysteries" that Paul mention are not descriptive of a separate "program," but rather "the mysteries of the kingdom of God."

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

1Co 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Just because Paul mentions "mysteries" doesn't mean that Paul's entire ministry to the Gentiles has to be distinct from anything in prophecy. It just means that some of the fulfillments of prophecy some about in ways that were either unclear or untold in prophecy. Paul is clear in quoting prophecy that the salvation of the Gentiles under his ministry was prophesied. The "mysteries" are in how this is done, such as "blindness in part" of physical Israel and the "grafting in" of Gentiles into the olive tree of Israel. The "mystery" that "the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body" does not mean a new, ontologically distinct body from Israel, but that the same body is pruned, refashioned, and expanded under the auspices of the New Covenant so that Jew and Gentile are equal in the new "Israel of God." It is the same olive tree (which is Israel according to Jeremiah 11:16).