Let's clear up one misconception

[freeatlast]

Headaches can be caused by many things--cancer for example.

And....

 

[DHK]

And....

What do you think your headaches are caused by?

 

[Fred's Wife]

That is what I would like to know from FAL, S.Fred or F.Wife.
Do any of them get headaches?
If so, what do they do about it?

I very rarely get headaches.

What does getting headaches have to do with "so-called" mental illnesses? A headache is a "physical" symptom ...not a "mental" illness.

 

[DHK]

I very rarely get headaches.

What does getting headaches have to do with "so-called" mental illnesses? A headache is a "physical" symptom ...not a "mental" illness.

There are many physical symptoms brought on by mental conditions.
See:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1846645&postcount=63

 

[seekingthetruth]

You are suggesting something incorrect. First I do sympathize with them and second I certainly think in those kind of conditions they should take such medication.
And third I also sympathize with the person who has behavior problems caused by sin, but what I do not do is try and convince them their problem is because if a mental illness but rather because of sin which brings on the condition which some in the medical profession is calling mental illness. Those people need to confess and forsake to get past their sin problem.
It would be a lack of sympathy and love if I did not tell them the truth about how we are to deal with problems brought about by sin or if I helped them believe that drugs was the answer.

If sin causes mental illness then you should be in an institution

John

 

[freeatlast]

If sin causes mental illness then you should be in an institution

John

John, if drugs can deal with sin then we need to do away with the bible like those who are already on the drugs and we all take drugs. God calls for confession and forsaking, but those who turn to drugs do so because they want to hang on to the sin that defiles them while presenting the falsehood that they are dealing with the problem when in fact they are masking it.

 

[freeatlast]

There are many physical symptoms brought on by mental conditions.
See:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1846645&postcount=63

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Luke2427]

The answer is confess and forsake and walk in the Spirit as commanded.

19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

23-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


Drugs cannot bring us to walking in the spirit as you so clearly prove by your outbursts.

I don't know what to think about STT, but if what he is saying about himself is remotely accurate, it is naive to say, "You don't need no stinkin drugs- just do better," which is the essence of your argument.

The Bible commands to Remember the Sabbath day. If a man cannot get out of bed due to some physical illness without medication, but can WITH the meds- then taking the drugs helps him fulfill his desire to observe that commandment.

It is no different with meds that treat mental illness.

The Bible no where condemns the use of medication in appropriate dosage to help us perform better physically, emotionally or mentally.

If the Bible doesn't condemn it- neither should you.

 

[revmwc]

John, if drugs can deal with sin then we need to do away with the bible like those already are on the drugs and we all take drugs. God calls for confession and forsaking, but those who turn to drugs do so because they want to hang on to the sin that defiles them while presenting the falsehood that they are dealing with the problem when in fact they are masking it.

There in lies the problem drugs don't deal with sin. Drugs deal with illnesses many mental problems are a result of a chemical imbalance in the body. So are you saying a chemical imbalance is the sin someone needs to confess? If that is the cause of chemical imbalances then their are a lot folks who need to confess sin so they can get off of hormone treatments or thyroid medication and confess the sin that caused the hyper or hypo thyroidism, because that is a chemical imbalance and affects many folks mentally and physically.

While I am not an advocate of putting kids on drugs too quickly for ADD or ADHD because sometimes it is just a kid being a kid if they truly need the aide of the drug it should be used. We have too many doped up kids today because doctors are pushing drugs that if the parents will wait the problem just might stop with the maturing of the child. Sometimes though the child has real problem. Many children of vietnam vets have problems because the dad was exposed to agent orange, the PTSD sufferer was brought on by their war time experience that doesn't make it sin in their lives it makes it a treatable problem with medication.

 

[freeatlast]

I don't know what to think about STT, but if what he is saying about himself is remotely accurate, it is naive to say, "You don't need no stinkin drugs- just do better," which is the essence of your argument.

The Bible commands to Remember the Sabbath day. If a man cannot get out of bed due to some physical illness without medication, but can WITH the meds- then taking the drugs helps him fulfill his desire to observe that commandment.

It is no different with meds that treat mental illness.

The Bible no where condemns the use of medication in appropriate dosage to help us perform better physically, emotionally or mentally.

If the Bible doesn't condemn it- neither should you.

The God lays down how we are to deal with sin and that is confession and forsaking. Drugs are used to mask the sin not deal with it. As you have seen even when taking drugs the person still goes off with outbursts of anger, sin.
If God wanted us to use drugs to combat sin he would have given that as drugs have always been, but spiritual issues are dealt with spiritually not medically. Confess and forsake is the only cure for sin.

 

[freeatlast]

There in lies the problem drugs don't deal with sin. Drugs deal with illnesses many mental problems are a result of a chemical imbalance in the body. So are you saying a chemical imbalance is the sin someone needs to confess? If that is the cause of chemical imbalances then their are a lot folks who need to confess sin so they can get off of hormone treatments or thyroid medication and confess the sin that caused the hyper or hypo thyroidism, because that is a chemical imbalance and affects many folks mentally and physically.

While I am not an advocate of putting kids on drugs too quickly for ADD or ADHD because sometimes it is just a kid being a kid if they truly need the aide of the drug it should be used. We have too many doped up kids today because doctors are pushing drugs that if the parents will wait the problem just might stop with the maturing of the child. Sometimes though the child has real problem. Many children of vietnam vets have problems because the dad was exposed to agent orange, the PTSD sufferer was brought on by their war time experience that doesn't make it sin in their lives it makes it a treatable problem with medication.

No, I am not saying that. First off there is no evidence that there is a chemical imbalance and even if there was it would not cause the person to sin any more then it would cause the person to do righteousness. These things are spiritual issues and cannot be controlled with medical means. If you really want to know the truth on that subject go here; http://blogs.plos.org/neuroanthropology/2011/06/16/chemical-imbalances-and-mental-illness-go-for-the-placebo-with-side-effects/ or for a video go here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcuhhJ1BaMk
No medical condition causes the person so sin, but the drugs are being used to combat exactly that. The only fix for sin is confession and forsaking, not drugs.
Like I said if you are really interested in the truth use the links. What we are seeing is a lazy parenting syndrome when it comes to children. Instead of dealing with the child as they should, biblically, parents are taking the easy way out and drugging their children into compliance which never deals with the real issue, sin. The thing is that some parents have been doing this for centuries by giving their child alcohol to sooth the child. These parents were seen as bad parents, but not when a so called Doctor comes along and prescribes a dug all is accepted. The truth is God does not accept it and the only cure is confession and forsaking. For the parent the only cure is to obey God and train up your child in the way they are to go, not given them drugs. The lazy parent syndrome is fixed by confession and forsaking.

 

[Luke2427]

The God lays down how we are to deal with sin and that is confession and forsaking. Drugs are used to mask the sin not deal with it. As you have seen even when taking drugs the person still goes off with outbursts of anger, sin.
If God wanted us to use drugs to combat sin he would have given that as drugs have always been, but spiritual issues are dealt with spiritually not medically. Confess and forsake is the only cure for sin.

No, it's not that simple. Few things of any real import ever are that simple.

If a man sleep walks and stabs his neighbor to death while unconscious, is the man a murderer?

Of course not. Everybody knows this.

Why is the man not a murderer? Because his mind is in an altered state.

Chemical imbalances in the brain are no different. If the man is medicated so that his mind is clear and normal- the man might be a fine Christian in outward behavior.

But without the medication the man's mind may be altered severely by chemical imbalances and the man may be violent in such an altered state.


Mark this down- the simplicity with which fundamentalists often approach matters making most things cut and dry, black and white- this is a mental condition as well- it is ignorance.

The Bible is not written with any where near that kind of simplicity- neither should we act with such simplicity.

 

[freeatlast]

No, it's not that simple. Few things of any real import ever are that simple.

If a man sleep walks and stabs his neighbor to death while unconscious, is the man a murderer?

Of course not. Everybody knows this.

Why is the man not a murderer? Because his mind is in an altered state.

Chemical imbalances in the brain are no different. If the man is medicated so that his mind is clear and normal- the man might be a fine Christian in outward behavior.

But without the medication the man's mind may be altered severely by chemical imbalances and the man may be violent in such an altered state.


Mark this down- the simplicity with which fundamentalists often approach matters making most things cut and dry, black and white- this is a mental condition as well- it is ignorance.

The Bible is not written with any where near that kind of simplicity- neither should we act with such simplicity.

Actually it is that simple. Drugs are what make it complicated. Your scenario has never happened and never will so it is useless. All sin is dealt with by confession and forsaking, not drugs. I understand that the liberal side just cannot accept absolutes, but the bible teaches them to be so. The only remedy for sin is confession and forsaking.

 

[Luke2427]

Actually it is that simple. Drugs are what make it complicated. Your scenario has never happened and never will so it is useless. All sin is dealt with by confession and forsaking, not drugs. I understand that the liberal side just cannot accept absolutes, but the bible teaches them to be so. The only remedy for sin is confession and forsaking.

No. Intelligent people are able to see things are usually complex. Simple minded people detest complexity.

You don't know that scenario has never played out. But, I presume that, because you need things to fit into nice little squares so you can digest them you just outright denied it without any investigation. Do you know why you did this? I submit that it is probably because you have a severely oversimplistic view of life. You cannot bear to have that view challenged so whenever something does- you reject that something outright.

Perhaps some meds would help you with this mental condition? I digress.

The Word of God is certainly not that simple. Anybody who has ever read it knows as much.

Check this out:

In the early morning hours of May 23, 1987, Parks reportedly got up (not awoke) from his sleep, drove roughly 23 km to his in-laws' home and broke in, assaulted his father-in-law and stabbed his mother-in-law to death. After all this, he managed to drive himself to the police station. Aside from a few isolated events, the next thing he could recall was being at the police station asking for help, saying “I think I have killed some people…my hands.”

Parks’ only defense was that he was asleep during the entire incident and was not aware of what he was doing. Naturally, nobody believed it; even sleep specialists were extremely skeptical. However, after careful investigation, the specialists could find no other explanation. Parks’ EEG readings were highly irregular even for a parasomniac. This combined with the facts that there was no motive, that he was amazingly consistent in his stories for more than seven interviews despite repeated attempts of trying to lead him astray, that the timing of the events fit perfectly with the proposed explanation, and that there is no way to fake EEG results, Parks was acquitted of the murder of his mother-in-law and the attempted murder of his father-in-law.

This is one of DOZENS of real cases.

But even if you stubbornly refuse to accept the evidence set before you- think of insane people, or retarded people. These people, with minds altered, have done all kinds of things that if sane people were to do them they would certainly be sin.

To pretend as if mental illness is not real is pure madness.

To pretend as if there are no drugs which help many people with many of these mental conditions is utterly ridiculous.

Anybody who thinks this way... ought to be on meds.

 

[annsni]

Since FAL, SF and FW have the answer to all of the needs of the mentally ill, I would certainly hope that they have been working with these people and have a greatly successful program running either at their church or in an outside facility. Could you all post the link to that program?

 

[freeatlast]

Since FAL, SF and FW have the answer to all of the needs of the mentally ill, I would certainly hope that they have been working with these people and have a greatly successful program running either at their church or in an outside facility. Could you all post the link to that program?

Yes our church has a 100% cure rate for all who take it and finish. It is called confession and forsaking. The rest we will send to your church for drugs. :laugh:

 

[freeatlast]

No. Intelligent people are able to see things are usually complex. Simple minded people detest complexity.

You don't know that scenario has never played out. But, I presume that, because you need things to fit into nice little squares so you can digest them you just outright denied it without any investigation. Do you know why you did this? I submit that it is probably because you have a severely oversimplistic view of life. You cannot bear to have that view challenged so whenever something does- you reject that something outright.

Perhaps some meds would help you with this mental condition? I digress.

The Word of God is certainly not that simple. Anybody who has ever read it knows as much.

Check this out:



This is one of DOZENS of real cases.

But even if you stubbornly refuse to accept the evidence set before you- think of insane people, or retarded people. These people, with minds altered, have done all kinds of things that if sane people were to do them they would certainly be sin.

To pretend as if mental illness is not real is pure madness.

To pretend as if there are no drugs which help many people with many of these mental conditions is utterly ridiculous.

Anybody who thinks this way... ought to be on meds.

Did you look at the links I gave and read and watch all the way through?

 

[Luke2427]

Did you look at the links I gave and read and watch all the way through?

Do they pretend that mental illness is always nothing more than a moral problem?

Do they purport that no medication treats mental illness?

Because if they do, I don't have time for such nonsense.

My mother retired from nursing for nearly twenty years at Whitefield Mississippi State Hospital.

I would find such notions laughable.

 

[freeatlast]

Do they pretend that mental illness is always nothing more than a moral problem?

Do they purport that no medication treats mental illness?

Because if they do, I don't have time for such nonsense.

My mother retired from nursing for nearly twenty years at Whitefield Mississippi State Hospital.

I would find such notions laughable.

Look the information over so you can make an educated evaluation.

 

[Luke2427]

Look the information over so you can make an educated evaluation.

That's called indoctrination- not education.

I have no more time for that than I have to read a book promoting geocentricity or flat-earth theory.