What must I do in my career situation?

[Arbo]

Evangelist- There's much wisdom in what others have posted. The only thing that I would submit is that, regardless of the reason debt has been incurred, it is owed. Any debt that you have will limit your freedom. It's good that you want to pay everything off. If you can do that, you will understand what I mean. :thumbsup:

 

[annsni]

Evangelist- There's much wisdom in what others have posted. The only thing that I would submit is that, regardless of the reason debt has been incurred, it is owed. Any debt that you have will limit your freedom. It's good that you want to pay everything off. If you can do that, you will understand what I mean. :thumbsup:

Amen. If you have debt, it may not mean that you have lived beyond your means but that your means do not match your life. In the case of the dentist, if you can pay the bill in 2 weeks, then put off the dentist for 2 weeks unless it is an emergency. I know that you put on your credit card a visit to your girlfriend despite the counsel here of not doing that because it was not a necessity. But you went, put yourself further in debt - and that was a choice.

We need to understand that ANY debt is not good, especially debt that is not for a concrete item like a home. A loan for a car is not a good deal and it is best to purchase what we can afford, even if it means getting a car a little older and with a few more miles. Going into debt for vacations, food, entertainment, etc. is just SO not smart (not saying you did all of this but saying in general). Medical bills should be paid off as soon as possible, even if it means forgoing having a night out with friends at a restaurant or buying new clothing at this time. When we are in debt, we are a slave and I can honestly say, the greatest feeling is when you have NO debt at all. AND that is the state that God wants us in - debt free.

 

[agedman]

Some posters have challenged the thinking I gave about the Lord's day.

They are wrong and here is some Scriptural evidence.

The temple sacrifices and worship continued every day of the week. The believer is referred to as "a temple of the Holy Spirit" and are not to consider worship as only occurring on a single day. Believers are to honor the Lord with their heart, mind, soul, and strength EVERY day. They are to be a continual sacrifice, a continual offering unto the Lord. "Whatever our (the believer's) hands find to do, do it with all might."

There is only ONE verse in the Scriptures that uses the words "Lord's day;" that was when John was banished on the isle. What day of the week was it? We have no solid evidence. It was a day the Lord had made and to John it was therefor the "Lord's day."

The teaching and preaching went on DAILY in the early church according to Acts.

If one were to hold to a specific day in which God marked out it would have to be Saturday - for that is actually a commandment.

Of course the tradition of men is that Sunday being the "resurrection" day made void the commandment. But such thinking isn't Biblical nor does it have any Scriptural authority. The PRINCIPLE that the Scriptures are teaching is that ONE day is to be given to rest and holiness above the rest. NOT a specific day. "Six days shalt thou labor..."

Those who think that agedman is wrong.

Prove to me by Scriptures that working on "Sunday" is not Scriptural.

Prove to me by Scriptures that any of the above statements are not Scriptures.

Prove to me by Scriptures that the testimony given by refusing to work on "Sunday" which obliges others to work is not a shameful and a disgrace.

Prove to me by Scriptures that if one is to live by the OT law how emergency services, gas stations, grocery stores, pharmacies... or other areas of the OP are actually exempt. NO it is an attempt at rationalization and excuse for some righteous view that is not Scripturally supported.

 

[saturneptune]

Amen. If you have debt, it may not mean that you have lived beyond your means but that your means do not match your life. In the case of the dentist, if you can pay the bill in 2 weeks, then put off the dentist for 2 weeks unless it is an emergency. I know that you put on your credit card a visit to your girlfriend despite the counsel here of not doing that because it was not a necessity. But you went, put yourself further in debt - and that was a choice.

We need to understand that ANY debt is not good, especially debt that is not for a concrete item like a home. A loan for a car is not a good deal and it is best to purchase what we can afford, even if it means getting a car a little older and with a few more miles. Going into debt for vacations, food, entertainment, etc. is just SO not smart (not saying you did all of this but saying in general). Medical bills should be paid off as soon as possible, even if it means forgoing having a night out with friends at a restaurant or buying new clothing at this time. When we are in debt, we are a slave and I can honestly say, the greatest feeling is when you have NO debt at all. AND that is the state that God wants us in - debt free.

I certainly agree with that. I do not know if every debt is bad, but in general, not a good idea. The borrower is slave to the lender, as Proverbs states. This also goes for the local church. Is it a good idea for a local church to be slave to a bank and Jesus Christ?

 

[saturneptune]

Some posters have challenged the thinking I gave about the Lord's day.

They are wrong and here is some Scriptural evidence.

The temple sacrifices and worship continued every day of the week. The believer is referred to as "a temple of the Holy Spirit" and are not to consider worship as only occurring on a single day. Believers are to honor the Lord with their heart, mind, soul, and strength EVERY day. They are to be a continual sacrifice, a continual offering unto the Lord. "Whatever our (the believer's) hands find to do, do it with all might."

There is only ONE verse in the Scriptures that uses the words "Lord's day;" that was when John was banished on the isle. What day of the week was it? We have no solid evidence. It was a day the Lord had made and to John it was therefor the "Lord's day."

The teaching and preaching went on DAILY in the early church according to Acts.

If one were to hold to a specific day in which God marked out it would have to be Saturday - for that is actually a commandment.

Of course the tradition of men is that Sunday being the "resurrection" day made void the commandment. But such thinking isn't Biblical nor does it have any Scriptural authority. The PRINCIPLE that the Scriptures are teaching is that ONE day is to be given to rest and holiness above the rest. NOT a specific day. "Six days shalt thou labor..."

Those who think that agedman is wrong.

Prove to me by Scriptures that working on "Sunday" is not Scriptural.

Prove to me by Scriptures that any of the above statements are not Scriptures.

Prove to me by Scriptures that the testimony given by refusing to work on "Sunday" which obliges others to work is not a shameful and a disgrace.

Prove to me by Scriptures that if one is to live by the OT law how emergency services, gas stations, grocery stores, pharmacies... or other areas of the OP are actually exempt. NO it is an attempt at rationalization and excuse for some righteous view that is not Scripturally supported.

I agree with your post also. I do not think one person can make a Scriptural case for any challenge you presented. No doubt the ones who think otherwise are the ones stuffing their gut at Sunday noon meal in a restaurant. I think you could extend your series of challenges to include the subjects of dancing and various other unScriptural vices that we as Baptists have invented.

 

[SaggyWoman]

How long have you been a Christian?

1. You can minister at work.

2. Work as unto the Lord.

3. Develop church activity during the day. Not everyone works first shift.

4. Love God. Do your job.

 

[SaggyWoman]

5. This is for a season.

6. While it is social, the church isn't a social club. There are other times. Or find another church for now.

 

[Salty]

You need to read Romans 13:8 in a more updated translation such as the NIV or ESV.

Rom 13:8 (NIV) Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:8 (ESV) Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

sorry, I just cant stop laughing....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:, I would explain, but......:smilewinkgrin:

 

[evangelist6589]

Evangelist- There's much wisdom in what others have posted. The only thing that I would submit is that, regardless of the reason debt has been incurred, it is owed. Any debt that you have will limit your freedom. It's good that you want to pay everything off. If you can do that, you will understand what I mean. :thumbsup:

I cannot do that as my income is not high enough. I can however save money, and pay on my smaller credit card debts. But ultimately I think the issue with me is I need a better paying career, or a new career period. I have listened to many calling the Ramsey show and 9/10 times he tells people whom make 30K or less that they have a career crisis and a income problem. He does not tell them to cut back on their $40 a month cell phone, but he tells them to get a better paying job! I remember one caller was making 25-30K a year and was cutting back on everything. Ramsey told him he was not going to be able to pay back his student loans with his income, but needed a new career. I think I am in that boat. But what?

I have worked for 5 years in the light industrial field and presently am a billing clerk. Perhaps I could go back to school and becoming a medical billing clerk, or get some computer networking and administration courses and be an IT person.

 

[evangelist6589]

Amen. If you have debt, it may not mean that you have lived beyond your means but that your means do not match your life. In the case of the dentist, if you can pay the bill in 2 weeks, then put off the dentist for 2 weeks unless it is an emergency. I know that you put on your credit card a visit to your girlfriend despite the counsel here of not doing that because it was not a necessity. But you went, put yourself further in debt - and that was a choice.

We need to understand that ANY debt is not good, especially debt that is not for a concrete item like a home. A loan for a car is not a good deal and it is best to purchase what we can afford, even if it means getting a car a little older and with a few more miles. Going into debt for vacations, food, entertainment, etc. is just SO not smart (not saying you did all of this but saying in general). Medical bills should be paid off as soon as possible, even if it means forgoing having a night out with friends at a restaurant or buying new clothing at this time. When we are in debt, we are a slave and I can honestly say, the greatest feeling is when you have NO debt at all. AND that is the state that God wants us in - debt free.

Actually I got that plane trip for only $40 round trip. I also got free room and board. I paid back the minimal eating out costs in less than a month.

I did go to the dentist today and half to go back for a filling in 2-3 weeks. I unfortunately will have to use my Credit Card for this one. However I can pay it back by the end of the month I hope.

But yes I will agree that sometimes I use my CC for things that I should not and unfortunately this is a part of the old debt that I have. However of the $6,000 in CC debt that I have a great majority of it is car problems (when I had my old car), medical bills before I had insurance, and the like. But yes I remember doing something very very very very stupid once for $700. That was the stupidest dumbest thing I have ever done with a CC. I joined a so called christian dating service (this was pre-Internet dating days) and boy oh boy was tht stupid!!!!!

 

[evangelist6589]

I agree with your post also. I do not think one person can make a Scriptural case for any challenge you presented. No doubt the ones who think otherwise are the ones stuffing their gut at Sunday noon meal in a restaurant. I think you could extend your series of challenges to include the subjects of dancing and various other unScriptural vices that we as Baptists have invented.

I cannot challenge his thinking at this time. However I strongly encourage him to read Kent Hughes books "Set Apart" and "Disciplines of a Godly Man" in there he makes a strong case for attending church on sunday.

 

[evangelist6589]

5. This is for a season.

6. While it is social, the church isn't a social club. There are other times. Or find another church for now.

I agree with this about it being a season. The church is not a social club, however fellowship is 1/3 of the reason I go to church.

 

[evangelist6589]

sorry, I just cant stop laughing....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:, I would explain, but......:smilewinkgrin:

The NIV & ESV use more updated manuscripts and textual evidences over the older KJV. The NIV & ESV are probably the 2 best translations in the english language. The NIV is certainly the most popular and a favored translation by many evangelical leaders. David Platt, Erwin Lutzer, DA Carson, Ravi Zacharias, Josh McDowell, Mark Dever and many more are just a few of the leaders whom rely on the NIV.

 

[seekingthetruth]

My current job is a good fit for myself, and I get along with everyone at my workplace which is also another good thing. However the MAJOR drawback is that I work 2nd shift (3:45p-12:15am) and 80% of the time on saturdays. I have refused to work sunday (the Lord's Day under any circumstance) and I communicated that with them upfront. I only would work on the Lord's Day if I were in a occupation that required it such as safety, law enforcement, gas stations, medical, etc..

While my checks are good its getting very very difficult to spend time with my church and 90% of their activities are on friday nights, and or at nights as most people work at first shift jobs. Its also getting very difficult to spend time with my current friends, whom also work first shift, as do most people. I wish I could move to first shift, however the job they hired me for is for 2nd shift. I desire to pay back my debts, however this is not important than the other things mentioned earlier. Also according to the Bible there is no promise or guarantee by either Jesus or Paul that we will be problem and or trouble free in life. Having debts is a part of reality, and I can be thankful that I can at least make a payment on mine, as many cannot.

So what should I do? Presently I am saving every check so if I were to move to another company I will have a backup fund. Thanks..


John

Can I ask how old you are?

Your threads about moving in with an internet girlfriend 1000 miles away and now having to work and missing church socials seem very immature to me.

How many times did you take the Way of the Master course? How hard is it to memorize "are you a good person?","have you ever told a lie?" , ect.

You remind me of a guy i know from Tennesee that calls himself a 'circuit walker". He said God has called him to travel to different churches and help them correct false teachings. The problem is that he himself knows very little scripture or Bible doctrine. In fact, he stays drunk most of the time.

Street preacher? Evangelist? Dude get some Bible education, and most of all, just grow up.

You can fool yourself, but it is hard to fool others....especially grownups.

John

 

[Luke2427]

Some posters have challenged the thinking I gave about the Lord's day.

They are wrong and here is some Scriptural evidence.

The temple sacrifices and worship continued every day of the week. The believer is referred to as "a temple of the Holy Spirit" and are not to consider worship as only occurring on a single day. Believers are to honor the Lord with their heart, mind, soul, and strength EVERY day. They are to be a continual sacrifice, a continual offering unto the Lord. "Whatever our (the believer's) hands find to do, do it with all might."

There is only ONE verse in the Scriptures that uses the words "Lord's day;" that was when John was banished on the isle. What day of the week was it? We have no solid evidence. It was a day the Lord had made and to John it was therefor the "Lord's day."

The teaching and preaching went on DAILY in the early church according to Acts.

If one were to hold to a specific day in which God marked out it would have to be Saturday - for that is actually a commandment.

Of course the tradition of men is that Sunday being the "resurrection" day made void the commandment. But such thinking isn't Biblical nor does it have any Scriptural authority. The PRINCIPLE that the Scriptures are teaching is that ONE day is to be given to rest and holiness above the rest. NOT a specific day. "Six days shalt thou labor..."

Those who think that agedman is wrong.

Prove to me by Scriptures that working on "Sunday" is not Scriptural.

Prove to me by Scriptures that any of the above statements are not Scriptures.

Prove to me by Scriptures that the testimony given by refusing to work on "Sunday" which obliges others to work is not a shameful and a disgrace.

Prove to me by Scriptures that if one is to live by the OT law how emergency services, gas stations, grocery stores, pharmacies... or other areas of the OP are actually exempt. NO it is an attempt at rationalization and excuse for some righteous view that is not Scripturally supported.

It's really very simple. The demand of God to set aside a day to worship Him did not begin in Exodus 20. It began the last day of creation.

For Israel, that was Saturday.

Scripture and church history proves that for the New Testament church is was Sunday.

Although the burden of proof is not on the person who says, "Honor the the Lord's Day as God commands." The burden of proof is on the person who says, "You don't have to honor the Lord's Day as the Lord says. God took that back."

Where did God take it back?

 

[agedman]

It's really very simple. The demand of God to set aside a day to worship Him did not begin in Exodus 20. It began the last day of creation.

For Israel, that was Saturday.

Scripture and church history proves that for the New Testament church is was Sunday.

Although the burden of proof is not on the person who says, "Honor the the Lord's Day as God commands." The burden of proof is on the person who says, "You don't have to honor the Lord's Day as the Lord says. God took that back."

Where did God take it back?

You want to claim a standard that the Scriptures do not state and then put the burden on the opposition to prove that the Scriptures do not state the standard.

NOT.

It is in your opinion the "day of the Lord" is Sunday.

YOU must prove that it is. I have no warrant to prove the negative.

There is only ONE occasion the Scriptures use the term "the Lord's Day."

It does not state what day, nor is there any historical record of which day. It could have just as well have been a Saturday for John was a Jew.

The Scripture principle has been given that six days a person is to work.

To hold to tradition of history does not Scriptural principle make.

The calendar is not an exact relic. If one were to attempt to keep the specific day, then every four years from January to leap day in February, Sunday actually falls on the celestial clock on Monday. Even then, the celestial calendar does not flow exactly like the human calendar.

YOU must prove that Sunday is the one and only day in which one is to rest and then demonstrate how that day works for all the preachers who have churches that allow them to take a different day for rest.

YOU must prove that Sunday was the first day of creation, when the celestial time keepers (sun, stars...) were not in existence until the fourth day.

YOU must prove that the PRINCIPLE of Scriptures is a law in which believers are to submit.

Because you cannot prove these things, it is better to abide in the Principle that the believe is to sacrifice daily, remain a temple of the Holy Spirit and follow the example of Christ - who worked (according to Jewish tradition) on the "Shabath" (Hebrew for rest), which was/is considered Saturday. If Christ worked, so can the believers.

I have separated the statements into blocks so that you can respond to each point with Scripture proof.

If you cannot use Scripture proof to dismantle the statements, then your view fails the test of Scripture.

 

[Luke2427]

You want to claim a standard that the Scriptures do not state and then put the burden on the opposition to prove that the Scriptures do not state the standard.

NOT.

It is in your opinion the "day of the Lord" is Sunday.

YOU must prove that it is. I have no warrant to prove the negative.

There is only ONE occasion the Scriptures use the term "the Lord's Day."

It does not state what day, nor is there any historical record of which day. It could have just as well have been a Saturday for John was a Jew.

The Scripture principle has been given that six days a person is to work.

To hold to tradition of history does not Scriptural principle make.

The calendar is not an exact relic. If one were to attempt to keep the specific day, then every four years from January to leap day in February, Sunday actually falls on the celestial clock on Monday. Even then, the celestial calendar does not flow exactly like the human calendar.

YOU must prove that Sunday is the one and only day in which one is to rest and then demonstrate how that day works for all the preachers who have churches that allow them to take a different day for rest.

YOU must prove that Sunday was the first day of creation, when the celestial time keepers (sun, stars...) were not in existence until the fourth day.

YOU must prove that the PRINCIPLE of Scriptures is a law in which believers are to submit.

Because you cannot prove these things, it is better to abide in the Principle that the believe is to sacrifice daily, remain a temple of the Holy Spirit and follow the example of Christ - who worked (according to Jewish tradition) on the "Shabath" (Hebrew for rest), which was/is considered Saturday. If Christ worked, so can the believers.

I have separated the statements into blocks so that you can respond to each point with Scripture proof.

If you cannot use Scripture proof to dismantle the statements, then your view fails the test of Scripture.

It does not matter whether one can prove that it was Sunday or not. That's the whole point.
The point is that God commanded his people to set aside a day to worship him. That that day is the exact day since the last day of creation is irrelevant.

But that there be a day when the people of God set it aside and collectively worship him as creator and savior is absolutely indisputably without question.

You are commanded by your Maker to gather with his people on the day when they gather to worship him together with them.

To refuse to do so when it is in your power to do so is a sin.

 

[evangelist6589]

Amen Luke and well said. I fear he is an individual whom will not listen to evidences no matter what you say. If he wants to work everyday of the week and miss sundays everyweek, then so be it. He is not going to change my mind on the issue.

It does not matter whether one can prove that it was Sunday or not. That's the whole point.
The point is that God commanded his people to set aside a day to worship him. That that day is the exact day since the last day of creation is irrelevant.

But that there be a day when the people of God set it aside and collectively worship him as creator and savior is absolutely indisputably without question.

You are commanded by your Maker to gather with his people on the day when they gather to worship him together with them.

To refuse to do so when it is in your power to do so is a sin.

 

[Arbo]

I cannot do that as my income is not high enough. I can however save money, and pay on my smaller credit card debts. But ultimately I think the issue with me is I need a better paying career, or a new career period. I have listened to many calling the Ramsey show and 9/10 times he tells people whom make 30K or less that they have a career crisis and a income problem. He does not tell them to cut back on their $40 a month cell phone, but he tells them to get a better paying job! I remember one caller was making 25-30K a year and was cutting back on everything. Ramsey told him he was not going to be able to pay back his student loans with his income, but needed a new career. I think I am in that boat. But what?

I have worked for 5 years in the light industrial field and presently am a billing clerk. Perhaps I could go back to school and becoming a medical billing clerk, or get some computer networking and administration courses and be an IT person.

Nobody said it'd be easy.

I have the impression that you're young. If so, you have time on your side, if you're serious about being debt-free.

Good luck to you.

 

[agedman]

It does not matter whether one can prove that it was Sunday or not. That's the whole point.
The point is that God commanded his people to set aside a day to worship him. That that day is the exact day since the last day of creation is irrelevant.

But that there be a day when the people of God set it aside and collectively worship him as creator and savior is absolutely indisputably without question.

You are commanded by your Maker to gather with his people on the day when they gather to worship him together with them.

To refuse to do so when it is in your power to do so is a sin.

The point of my original post was testimony to employer and other employees who have to cover because some believer doesn't want to work on a specific day.

It is a matter of testimony in which the OP seems to care little. Throughout the OP there was indicator after indicator of selfish desires overriding the basic principles of Scriptures; taking the principles of Scriptures and making selfish desired decisions while claiming some Scriptural authorization by wrongly applying Scriptures.

Not one of the desires expressed in the OP were righteous in intent nor in testimony.