The Nature of the Incarnation - Dual or Single?

[percho]

Is, The Christ, The Messiah, The Anointed One,
God or the Son of God, the son of David, the seed of Abraham?

Did God anoint God both Lord and Christ?

Acts 2:36 assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him -- this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'

What Jesus?

V29-33 `Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day; a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne, having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. `This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand, till I make thy foes thy footstool;

Did God give himself the promise of the Holy Spirit or did God the Father give Jesus of Nazareth his only begotten Son, the fruit of the loins of David, the seed of Abraham with whom the promise was made the promise of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Yeshua1]

Is, The Christ, The Messiah, The Anointed One,
God or the Son of God, the son of David, the seed of Abraham?

Did God anoint God both Lord and Christ?

Acts 2:36 assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him -- this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'

What Jesus?

V29-33 `Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day; a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne, having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. `This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand, till I make thy foes thy footstool;

Did God give himself the promise of the Holy Spirit or did God the Father give Jesus of Nazareth his only begotten Son, the fruit of the loins of David, the seed of Abraham with whom the promise was made the promise of the Holy Spirit?

jesus was the Second person of the trinity, who became a man and dwelt among us!

the God/man!

 

[humblethinker]

Interesting viewpoint of Paul Helm

Helm writes that "there is no time in [Christ's] existence when he was not incarnate."
-Helm, "Divine Timeless Eternity", 54.

 

[Yeshua1]

So he holds to him always being the God man?

 

[percho]

jesus was the Second person of the trinity, who became a man and dwelt among us!

the God/man!

And we can find that in scripture, where?

John 1:1-5 In beginning was the word and the word was toward the God and God was the word. This was in beginning toward the God. All thru same became and apart from same became not yet one which has become. In same life was and the life was the light of the humans. And the light in the darkness is-appearing and the darkness it not grasped.----Scripture4all Greek interlinear

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness upon the face of the deep.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God (Elohim) said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Is the above speaking of two persons of God or is it speaking of: Scripture4all Hebrew interlinear Duet 6:4 hear you ! Israel Yahweh Elohim -of-us Yahweh one.
The one word God?

Jv14 and the word flesh became. By begetting in the virgin Mary a child Jesus?

 

[Yeshua1]

And we can find that in scripture, where?

John 1:1-5 In beginning was the word and the word was toward the God and God was the word. This was in beginning toward the God. All thru same became and apart from same became not yet one which has become. In same life was and the life was the light of the humans. And the light in the darkness is-appearing and the darkness it not grasped.----Scripture4all Greek interlinear

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness upon the face of the deep.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God (Elohim) said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Is the above speaking of two persons of God or is it speaking of: Scripture4all Hebrew interlinear Duet 6:4 hear you ! Israel Yahweh Elohim -of-us Yahweh one.
The one word God?

Jv14 and the word flesh became. By begetting in the virgin Mary a child Jesus?

Word was with God the father, but NOT same person as God the father, per John 1!

Jesus called His father the God of the Jews, true and only God...

father called jesus His Son, and to honor Him as you do the father..

peter calls the holy Spirit God...

3 persons called God, yet still ony ONE God!

 

[asterisktom]

What would you propose that the writer is saying? Looking at the context, in no way does this understanding conflict.

[/I]​

In CONTEXT, the writer was saying that they will not learn of a different Jesus than the one their 'leaders' taught (vs 7 and 17). He was not addressing the idea of whether Jesus did not have a physical body before he was born. It seems the writer was not speaking in a way that would support how you've used your quote.


Correct I don't have any problem with those verses. Are you saying that you DO believe that Jesus experienced a temporal action?


I agree but I don't see how this addresses our disagreement. I do admire your commitment to philosophical consistency.

Hank and HumbleThinker, I want to let you know that I appreciate your posts and plan to write soon. Right now there is some real heavy cesnorship going on here. I either can't get on at all or I get cut off in a few miinutes.

Hopefully things will go bck to semi-normal soon.

 

[OldRegular]

jesus was the Second person of the trinity, who became a man and dwelt among us!

the God/man!

The Second Person of the Trinity did not become a man. If He became a man He was no longer God.

 

[OldRegular]

Is, The Christ, The Messiah, The Anointed One,
God or the Son of God, the son of David, the seed of Abraham?

Did God anoint God both Lord and Christ?

Acts 2:36 assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him -- this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'

What Jesus?

V29-33 `Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day; a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne, having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. `This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand, till I make thy foes thy footstool;

Did God give himself the promise of the Holy Spirit or did God the Father give Jesus of Nazareth his only begotten Son, the fruit of the loins of David, the seed of Abraham with whom the promise was made the promise of the Holy Spirit?

You may be chasing your tail in circles. However, it appears to me you are doing your best to deny the Triune Nature of God!

 

[percho]

You may be chasing your tail in circles. However, it appears to me you are doing your best to deny the Triune Nature of God!

I am not trying my best to deny, I am trying my best to understand according to scripture and scripture only. As I have posted before, I spent about 35 years Presbyterian and about 35 Southern Baptist but that doesn't mean everything I have been told/taught is chiseled in stone.

Let's study the scriptures and allow the Holy Spirit of God and or God the Holy Spirit to teach us.

 

[HankD]

Hank and HumbleThinker, I want to let you know that I appreciate your posts and plan to write soon. Right now there is some real heavy cesnorship going on here. I either can't get on at all or I get cut off in a few miinutes.

Hopefully things will go bck to semi-normal soon.

OK Tom, take care.

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

The Second Person of the Trinity did not become a man. If He became a man He was no longer God.

if god was not a man, one as we are, except with no sin nature, what was he?

John said that the Son became a man, with fullness of the truine Godhead , per paul...

BOTH affirm that Jesus was a man, in whom was BOTH natures of God/Human, forever distinct, not mixed, yet forever more the God/man!

And WHY could all of God the Son incarnate as jesus, as God the father was still in heaven!

 

[humblethinker]

So he holds to him always being the God man?

Yes, that is what I understand Paul Helm to be saying. Surprising, huh? Can anyone confirm or deny this is Helm's view?

 

[humblethinker]

Hank and HumbleThinker, I want to let you know that I appreciate your posts and plan to write soon. Right now there is some real heavy cesnorship going on here. I either can't get on at all or I get cut off in a few miinutes.

Hopefully things will go bck to semi-normal soon.

I've never experienced censorship on this board... is that what it turned out to be?

 

[asterisktom]

I've never experienced censorship on this board... is that what it turned out to be?

No, HT, the censorship was not from this board, but from the Chinese government. It is just something we have to live with. For days or weeks it is very hard to get good access to a number of sites. I also have a free version of VPN, which is a way to sort of get around it.

For the last few days things are back to normal, but now I am quite backlogged on other obligations, so that is why I am still not back here. I have lots of varied teaching assignments.

Also, there is a study Bible coming out (yes, of the Preterist persuasion) and I have volunteered to do the prefaces for Nehemiah and Ezra. So most of writing will be funneled in that direction for the time being.

But let me repeat that there has been no censorship here of my posts, although there have been, from time to time, moderator comments. Which is fine. As far as I am concerned, this is a top quality board.

 

[humblethinker]

No, HT, the censorship was not from this board, but from the Chinese government. It is just something we have to live with. For days or weeks it is very hard to get good access to a number of sites. I also have a free version of VPN, which is a way to sort of get around it.

For the last few days things are back to normal, but now I am quite backlogged on other obligations, so that is why I am still not back here. I have lots of varied teaching assignments.

Also, there is a study Bible coming out (yes, of the Preterist persuasion) and I have volunteered to do the prefaces for Nehemiah and Ezra. So most of writing will be funneled in that direction for the time being.

But let me repeat that there has been no censorship here of my posts, although there have been, from time to time, moderator comments. Which is fine. As far as I am concerned, this is a top quality board.

10-4. I didn't know that you were in China... very interesting. Though I don't subscribe to it, I have done little research into Preterism but I do have an interest in looking into the view.

I am interested in your views on the OP so, just when you get time...

 

[HankD]

Also, there is a study Bible coming out (yes, of the Preterist persuasion) and I have volunteered to do the prefaces for Nehemiah and Ezra. So most of writing will be funneled in that direction for the time being.

A Preterist Study Bible... Amazing.

I'll be looking for it Tom, let me/us know more when you know more.

I'm always interested in your views although sometimes I am very straight forward in my objections to full preterism.

Thanks
HankD

 

[OldRegular]

BTW, a good book to stimulate encouraging thought on this topic is John Owen's Christologia, though he doesn't seem to follow up on some of the trains of thought he started out with. But the book, despite this, is a wonderful theological and devotional source of encouragement.

How do you read John Owen's? I have his seven volume commentary on Hebrews; one sentence requites a page, almost. Someone has condensed the seven volumes to one!!

 

[asterisktom]

How do you read John Owen's? I have his seven volume commentary on Hebrews; one sentence requites a page, almost. Someone has condensed the seven volumes to one!!

Though I don't subscribe all his beliefs I have great respect for John Owen, and still read him. He reminds of Augustine or Tertullian in that he holds, in a curious inconsistency, mutually (somewhat) antithetical tenets. He is always worth reading, though some works more than others.

I have made good use of many parts of his Hebrews Commentary, but I can't say I read anywhere near all of it. It was from him that I learned the value of studying out the 70 weeks prophecy, though I came to disagree with his timing.

 

[Yeshua1]

A Preterist Study Bible... Amazing.

I'll be looking for it Tom, let me/us know more when you know more.

I'm always interested in your views although sometimes I am very straight forward in my objections to full preterism.

Thanks
HankD

just curious to IF they took out the verses regarding the Second Coming?